Tycoon Dough is Democratic

Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 4 months ago to Politics
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  • Posted by frodo_b 9 years, 4 months ago
    If Law was limited to its true and natural purpose, — the protection of the individual's life, liberty and property — then we wouldn't be having the debate about the influence of money in politics.

    Instead, Law has been corrupted so that it provides benefits and privileges to some at the expense of others. That’s the elephant in the room that no one seems to bring up when discussing “the democracy of tycoon dough.” When the wealthy donor influences the politician he’s also influencing the laws for his benefit.
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  • Posted by TheRealBill 9 years, 4 months ago
    Politics and thus government are still subject to the law of supply and demand. Rather than look at money as a corrupting influence we should, IMO, be looking at it as an indicator of the "Market Of Power/Force".

    The more power and authority delegated to government, the greater the scope of it. While the supply grows it is controlled via a non-growing supply of elected officials. Therefore the demand for the position or access to those in the positions increases.

    Therefore the price of control increases.

    The rhetorically simple solution is to reduce the demand by reducing the supply (scope and reach) of the government. For example, if the government had no say in whom you can marry, there wouldn't be money in changing who you can marry.

    As to implementation of the above... If we knew that we wouldn't have the problem to complain about.
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  • Posted by norman1 9 years, 4 months ago
    without a proper philosophy we will have a corrupted system of government. we do not have a proper philosophy so we have a corrupted government.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 4 months ago
    If we somehow (may be impossible to do justly) allowed only people with at least a basic understanding of the issues and candidates to vote, campaign money would be less powerful. People who are knowledgeable can publish articles and read articles *for free*. The money is influential in politics b/c it influences people who make decisions based on ads.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 4 months ago
      And who gets to decide the "basic understanding?"
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      • Posted by $ rainman0720 9 years, 4 months ago
        I'll give it a shot, although I think it's pretty intuitive.

        If you understand that corporations don't pay taxes, you have a basic understanding.

        If you understand that the government doesn't make money, all it can do is redistribute existing money, you have a basic understaning.

        If you understand that rationing is the only outcome if you throw 30 million more people into a healthcare system and then limit their choices, you have a basic understanding.

        How's that for a starting point?
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 4 months ago
          But what if the progressives get to decide?
          If you understand that competition is evil you have a basic understanding.
          If you understand that government is perfect you have a basic understanding.
          If you understand that redistribution is "fair" you have an expert understanding.

          That is the problem. "Who" gets to decide is the issue.
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          • Posted by $ rainman0720 9 years, 4 months ago
            Good point, but terms like "evil" and "fair" and "perfect" are subjective, so I would disqualify them on that basis alone.

            Competition is "evil" only because progressives don't like people being recognized for their abilities and achievements.

            Government is "perfect" because someone else gets to decide aspects of my life, and progressives think they know better than I do what's right and good for me.

            Redistribution is only "fair" to half the population; by definition it's unfair to the other half, but progressives conveniently choose to ignore that.

            Emotions and feelings can't come into play.

            So how about this for a basic understanding: Since I'm carrying the load for two taxpayers (myself and someone else), I get to vote, but my hanger-on doesn't. No different than someone living in my house on my dime; since I'm the breadwinner, I get to make the rules (vote).

            That's pretty cut and dried. If you have a positive tax liability, you get to vote. If you pay no taxes (or worse yet, get back more than you pay), you don't get to vote.

            You have to earn the ability to vote (and decide to what happens to all the money in the pot) by being a contributing member and actually putting more into the pot than you take out.
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 4 months ago
              You don't seem to understand the point. It's not the criteria, its who gets to determine the criteria that is critical. If it were you or I, the criteria would certainly be much different than if it were BO or HRC or (God forbid) Elizabeth Warren. That is the problem.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 4 months ago
          I agree it would be easy to become politicized. It's unfortunate that some people cannot *imagine* it not being politicized. The questions would not ask whether gov't is perfect, competition is good/evil, etc. It would be to determine if the voter even knew what the election was about.

          It might ask which does candidate X agree with: a) "Business needs government as a partner to make the economy fairer and to prevent abuses associated with concentration of power." or b) "Businesses should be left alone to create value in the economy and held only to the laws governing all citizens. This is the best policy to prevent abuses."

          The point is not your opinion on those position statements. It's that the voter should know which candidate claims to endorse A and which claims to support B. Candidates could lie, just as politicians sometimes break campaign promises now. The point would be to filter out the voter who decides based on an ad with video from a fundraiser altered to look like surveillance tapes of smug crooks. "Did candidate Y make a crooked deal with his cronies to abuse children in sweatshops? Can we really trust him?"

          I admit this is a thought experiment, not something I could imagine being implemented fairly.
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