This essay has some salient points. Unfortunately, most Americans are scared to death of a violent revolution, just as they are complacent in going to the voting booths.
I live in Sedona Az. where most people here are walking around in a daze any way. Every time my wife and I go shopping, wonder if the people I see around me could survive a catastrophe man made or other wise. How many would band together for a common cause or become animals. I have serious reservations about this. I have may written before about my conversation with an Vietnam Veteran about what is happening in this country. He believed that violent revolution is the only solution. He put it to me this way-"I getting to old for fighting but will deliver ammunition to the front lines so you youngsters can keep on fighting" This soldier was about a decade older than I am. I keep developing rational ideas that could change the world around me but there are to many mentally deaf people here. I even try to make connections to dark groups that have the same sentiments as I do. But, they are very afraid of gov't surveillance.
I pray to God that a large stone would fall from the sky and obliterate the NSA Facility in Utah. I'm sure the BHO Terrorist Conference will target these Son's of Liberty types of groups and the NRA instead of the real threat of Islamist Extremists..

Hello E,

I would like to thank you for this contribution. I found many of these contributions not well thought through and expressing what, to me, seems heavily emotion-loaded cries out of fear.

The whole talk about "two worlds" is just a misunderstanding. There is only one reality that exists. Draw your own conclusions, ladies and gentlemen.

I think that many misinterpret what is a glacially slow evolution of the human species. How long ago were we mating with Neanderthals? How long ago have we learned how to use tools? And now, in what in comparison seem overnight, we want create New World and a New Man? That is what Stalin and Hitler preached. Remember?

I also share your concern about talking loosely about revolutions and demolition of governments. That has nothing to do with either Objectivism or Ayn Rand's ideas and writings. Some shallow-thinking governmental spy will use it to cause us much trouble and achieve a pay raise.

Finally, I am ashamed that at least three people here gave you negative points. To end on a light-hearted note, I donate to you the +1000 that someone else, misguidedly, gave me in another discussion here.

All the best to you.
Sincerely,
Maritimus

No illusions here. Good article. Excellent commentary offered here by our Gulch members.

Thank you. Crystal clear.
Lots to ponder. While there are only two propositions, they each entail myriads of considerations. My first thought is that there is no reason that education and demonstration cannot be put forth along with a more proactive approach. Fashioning such a movement is easy to say, but complex to put forth. However, starting with basic premises, there's no reason why It can't be done.

The President can sign toilet paper, if he wants to, but until the Senate ratifies these treaties they have no legal authority. Note my comment about "unintended consequences", regarding the price of oil. That price was supposed to skyrocket to over $300 a barrel by now, given the plans of the administration, which did not take into account the fracking technology or the reactions of OPEC. The Saudis now say they will not allow oil to ever exceed $100 a barrel again. The current push by the administration to use the UN Small Arms Treaty to undermine the 2nd amendment will fail. The UN sea treaty has languished for lack of U.S. support for almost two decades, and is unlikely to ever be put into effect. The U.S. is also unlikely to ever sign onto the International Criminal Court, since it makes our troops vulnerable to war crimes claims. It's one thing to have a hidden agenda, but entirely another to put it into effect once the details become public.

Again, I am in agreement with most of what you say however, the fact is that we now have 5 UN treaties already endorsed by the president and only needing ratification by the Senate in order to be put into full effect thus negating large sections of our venerable US Constitution.

Agenda 21 is but one of these treaties that came out of the Rio Accords, signed by Bush 1, and because of a massive and coordinated push, all 50 states have already signed on to it (in my state, NJ) all 21 counties have also endorsed it without understanding its full ramifications. The other 4 treaties are just as onerous and corrosive to our sovereignty.

For these reasons, we are much further along the path to this growing world tyranny. The problem is that our attention has been kept riveted on the war on terror (almost as if it were part of a master plan). We have been continuously surrendering our liberties in exchange for some ill-defined sense of security and as Franklin once said (sic, "he who trades liberty for security ends up with neither).

There is much more going on than the American public knows and that is a fact.

foster; the alternative is too painful, but is it rational and reasonable to avoid thinking about and preparing for?

Herb; The society we all live in, our government, our culture, our very day to day existence has changed over our lifetimes to a situation many think is not sustainable and will fail or at least make a full transition to enmity (tyranny) towards the liberty minded individual and objectivist philosophy.

Many objectivist and those in the loosely termed Liberty Movement concentrate their efforts in education and demonstration of the rightness of the philosophical principles of individual natural rights and capitalism while not realizing that such an effort will take decades at least to make significant inroads into the population, or in finding individual means to personally "shrug' to escape.

Some think that those efforts as well as the political approach are illusory at best and that the progressive socialism taking over the country is already in a collapsing spiral and that full collapse is inevitable with catastrophe for the individual and a free society unavoidable.

While the epiphany of that realization has and is occurring to some urging them to want to find more proactive approaches to facing and dealing with the situation, many others seem to want to hang on to the illusions of education, demonstration, or escape (shrugging) being the only acceptable discussions and actions for the Objectivist and Natural Individual Rights citizen to contemplate.

Long four sentences, but the question arises; which is more right and are there acceptable proactive approaches, and are there further considerations to include in such thoughts.

I kind of thought it was more 'The fox is in the henhouse."

They also have comparatively smaller populations.

I read an article within the last couple of days quoting Small Business Administration numbers that we are currently experiencing a greater failure of small business than creation to the tune of 70,000 per year for the first time. The total numbers were on the order of 400,000 to -470,000 per year.

For myself, it's cold or hot drinks. Luke warm just doesn't taste good.

I agree with your perspicacious account of this forum and our general concerns which pointedly lack any enthusiasm for revolution, reform, nor anarchy. I think our enthusiasm for objectivism, for understanding our realities, individual freedom and the Constitution are mentally and spiritually healthy.

Excellent quote!! +1 for AR

Yes, decentralization is the key to liberty and individualism. Jefferson's idea of the 'Hundred' speaks to that very topic.

The benefit I see for a recovery after the collapse here in America is that there's nothing wrong with the way our government is supposed to operate according to the Constitution. The problem is one the Anti-Federalists outlined, which is abuse of power by a twisted interpretation of that document, using the ambiguities like "general welfare". Restoration of original intent, limiting the power of the central government, abolishing the Federal Bank, and a rejection of fiat currency will be a start down a more productive American society. The only question will be if America has the toughness to see the hard times through.

I don't dispute the undesirable efforts of powerful agencies along the lines you denote. Agenda 21 is real and popular among the enviro-socialist crowd. I think Gaia religion concerns are secondary to violent Islamists for the foreseeable future. A UN-based world government is a fantasy without U.S. backing, and despite the wishes of the "Progressive" crowd, I don't see Americans wanting to give up sovereignty. Keynesian economics is about to face reality, with the inevitable collapse of over-centralized banking structures and fiat currency. The question is what we do when all of this hits home and rapidly spins out of control.

Regarding "And on the surface is a veil of deceit and compromise," the veil of deceit is far more than a veil and far thicker than just the surface. The vast majority of those with political power are either in delusion about the state of reality (Ex. tolerance of terrorists, denial of the debt problem, etc.) and/or are empowered by such delusion. Unlike when Jeremiah Wright said that America's chickens are coming home to roost, now is the time when America's chickens are coming home to roost.

and that is why I have stocked up on defense supplies slowly over several years. I fear it could be a bit like "The Walking Dead" but instead of Zombies we would have Looters.

Maybe not quite as apocalyptic but similar in several ways.

I am reminded of the 19th century studies: "In 1894, the Times of London estimated that by 1950 every street in the city would be buried nine feet deep in horse manure."

If you do not take changes in technology into consideration, you are wallowing in poop.

Jan

My point is that despite the wishes of the powerful, the law of unintended consequences will eventually prevail. The wheels inevitably come off of the wagon, and things go in entirely unexpected directions. The results are usually initially unpleasant, but solutions will be found. The goal should be to carefully examine options for recovery in a way that makes sense and is more manageable. Like you, I don't see much positive in large urban centers. While some aspects are more efficient, they are extremely vulnerable to interruptions in supply, promote rapid spread of disease, and make it more difficult to find criminals among a large population.

I'm not certain what the failure of our government means. If it is the total usurpation of the constitution, we are already there. If it is progressive utiopianism like France, we are very close considering the 30 hour work week and the percentage of people receiving a government check. I get one. Some would argue I paid into it my entire work life, I am entitled. I know it is only until my benevolent government tells me I am no longer entitled, they could have never taken it from my earnings if it were truly mine to keep. I live in my own utopia. 5 minutes from doctors, shopping, and great places to eat, on a quiet street with no traffic. In our small city there are only three streets the meet that description. Great neighbors, they all seem to want the same things. The chance to enjoy their lives and be left alone by the mooches of life. We have a new guy trying to build on a lot. He wants a variance. We don't think he, or anyone else, should have a variance. It's our community, do it the approved way. But, even in that, it is the hand of government reigning in freedoms.

What I wish for in government is a "deliver the mail and protect the borders" kind of entity. I don't think tax dollars should be spent on curing cancer, aborting babies, researching stem cells. These may all be fine ideas, depending on your political POV, but how is the government in the business of those things and so much more?

Historian David Barton was on the blaze one day reading questions from an 8th grade final exam. I have lived long enough to retire with a reasonable nest egg. I couldn't answer a single question. How much better is education now the we have the Education department?

I believe it was in the Carter years they started the Department of Energy, to move us to energy independence. We finally got there, but did the energy department forge the way or were they in the way?
It seems to me all of the agencies and departments, at the least, become millstones around our necks and at worst become weapons used by the party in power against the opposition.

Taking the agencies apart would be as difficult as repealing and replacing Obamacare. It would require the passage in both chambers and a Presidential signature. These days we understand how difficult that is.

So we look about the world and wonder where is Atlantis? Should we go to England, France, Spain or Portugal? All more governed than where we are, they've been at it longer. How about the Middle East? Not for me, wouldn't fit in with the Muslims. I might do something foolish and lose my head. Far East? South Korea and Japan are enterprising places. North Korea and China, not so much. Anyplace I think of seems like a frying pan to fire move. Maybe that's one of the illusions. Maybe someplace else is different, but fine just the same.

The elephant in the room illusion is total collapse will mean "the end". Until the sun loses it's ability to heat and light the Earth, there will be a tomorrow. In the worst of the western socialist states people still have jobs, families, homes, goals, and a life. People own property real and tangible. People pay and collect rent, shop for groceries, eat out, and they sometimes cook at home. We argue about whose buying the groceries and whose actually paying the rent. But the truth is, there will be a tomorrow. The real question is how to shape it in a more libertarian way. I believe the checks will have to bounce and the promises be broken before we find real answers. As long as there is a way to continue to avoid the real issue, change the value of the currency, continue to make payments, and refinance the whole mess...our elected officials will do as always. This could be considered good news. In the great depression fortunes were made. Fortunes were also lost. That would be another kind of redistribution! Still, opportunities were real for those that recognized them and took action. Taking action is the overlooked part in the process. Thinking about doing a thing is not the same as doing it. Dreaming of kissing the prettiest girl in town is not the same as kissing her.

I somehow can't seem to find the one size fits all answer to this. For me, I will continue to maintain my small string of rental properties and use that money to afford the freedoms I enjoy. I may divest if a fit time ever comes, or I may go to my grave and let the estate figure it out. Either way as long as people need a decent place to live my family will survive the foolishness. I guess if the government started ignoring property rights and taking what is ours there would be hell to pay.

With acknowledgement to khalling that the exorbitant cost of government is a major millstone on the economy’s neck, the cost of the welfare state is the other major factor that will eventually break the bank.

Reducing these costs is virtually impossible due to the politically exploited, low information voter. The only remotely possible hope is freeing the economy up to produce enough real goods and services to support the non-producers while somehow rebuilding a more contributive social order.

Note this excerpt from an article that just showed up in my inbox:

<<Nordic nations get fairly decent scores because they have very laissez-faire policies for regulation, trade, monetary policy, and property rights. --- Yes, the fiscal burden of the welfare state slows growth and drags down their rankings, but they still do far better than other European countries that have big governments and a lot of intervention.>>

I’m not saying this is at all possible; only that I see it as the only way of unwinding the economic doomsday machine we currently are operating.

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/m...

If you read farther, he says that the globalists have very little control themselves, that in fact their elaborate structures of wannabe control are built on sand. I agree.

The vast majority of people aren't interested in fighting anybody for their cause any more than for our cause. They simply want to go on sleepwalking, and will put up with conditions we would not in order to do it.

This doesn't mean there isn't any hope. It does mean we might want to reread Sun Tzu on how to motivate the lazy so that they do care. The opposition is good at that.

His statements that the collapse is already underway and that it won't be obvious until it's over are right on.

Don't get me wrong, I do not advocate violent revolution. But I do advocate being prepared. Many, probably most revolutions in history have not been "won" by the group that started them, but were successfully "hijacked" once in progress. We might need to do that. But I'm hoping all it will take for reform is to recreate the conditions of 1787, where the existing government felt they couldn't continue to operate.