11

Joe Sacco Response To Jihadist Attacks On Satirists

Posted by khalling 2 years, 5 months ago to Philosophy
82 comments | Share | Flag

hey, Euda, can we interview you on this-after all, you are a satirist: http://www.papapossum.com/
I would really appreciate your thoughts on killings and how we move forward in the World under this type of terrorism
SOURCE URL: http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/jan/09/joe-sacco-on-satire-a-response-to-the-attacks


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by byHisgrace 2 years, 5 months ago
    Muslims do not assimilate, they conquer.
    Look up Gates of Vienna.
    Study Islam...
    Islam and the West are completely and totally incompatible.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 2 years, 5 months ago
      bravo...unclouded vision.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
        where are you on the environmentalists?
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 2 years, 5 months ago
          I didn't believe in littering before it became a social cause, never felt comfortable soiling nature...but I also don't need others to tell me not to do so. Frankly, environmentalists are hypocrites since a humans existence : housing, transportation, electricity fouls their hallowed environment.

          I have no issue with any people existing and believing whatever they wish, I'll even listen to them and debate them, until they want me dead for simply being.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 2 years, 5 months ago
            apologies for my mess response.

            Frankly, environmentalists are hypocrites since any humans existence (housing, transportation, electricity), including their own and their methods, soil their hallowed environment.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
              who is responsible for more world deaths?
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 2 years, 5 months ago
                If you'd like me to say Christianity or Judaism I'd have to remind you that islam is 700 years younger than Christianity and islam is deliberately pushing hard to catch up, if it hasn't already exceeded. Individual christians have done a lot of killing but scant few have used Christianity as a cause to murder as islam does regularly.

                Reminder: The Crusades were retaliatory for islamic aggression and then capitalistic to fill the coffers of individual kinships and the Vatican..

                Now if we're talking overall:
                Age.
                Nature/disease
                Humans.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
                  my point isn't to compare death due to religion. It's more about understanding that our enemies-the worst ones-could be our neighbors and how they vote or push for policies that end our freedoms. I hate those jihad monsters and what they're doing. But to just put the focus on them gets you whole agencies and restricted travel and road blocks and maybe even martial law.
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by  $  Eudaimonia 2 years, 5 months ago
    Sure you can interview me.

    Here are my initial thoughts on the Charlie Hebdo attack.

    ---

    A first point: personal context.

    I did not find out about the Charlie Hebdo attack until a full day after it had happened.
    I have been very busy, to the exclusion of many other things, with two major projects.

    The first is a contract I'm working on.
    This is taking the majority of my time.

    The second is a new satire I will be posting early next month.

    These two projects have allowed me to take in only a surface understanding of the attack: I still have not looked into anything of yesterday's hostage stand-off.
    However, I think that I have enough of an understanding to enter the discussion.

    ---

    A second point: my current satire project.

    I currently have thirty-eight satires posted at http://papapossum.com
    It has really started to bother me that all but a few of them are written in the same meter.
    There is something to be said for developing a style, but there is also something to be said about not letting that style become a crutch and then a prison.

    This new piece intentionally breaks from that usual style - I have one other piece written in the same manner.
    I consider this new piece, at the risk of sounding pompous, to be very important.
    I want it written.
    I want it written correctly.
    And I want it written on time (it has a very specific post-by date).

    Because of the technical demands and the due date of the piece, any consideration of a beginning a new satire, even one on the Charlie Hebdo attack, must be put on the back burner,
    I do, however, plan to write something about the Charlie Hebdo attack.

    ---

    A third point: "Je suis Charlie Hebdo".

    I want to state this carefully so that it is not misunderstood.
    I personally am "drawing the line" at declaring "I am Charlie Hebdo".
    I am not: I am a satirist.

    Logically stated: Squares and rectangles are quadrilaterals, but rectangles are not squares.
    It is my understanding that Charlie Hebdo was a far left publication.

    Do I support their right to satirize: absolutely.
    Do I support their right to publish leftist pap: conditionally - as long as they support my right not to read it or agree with it.
    Am I outraged at the attack - as a satirist, yes... but not as a far left satirist.
    I am more comfortable in declaring, "Je suis une satiriste."

    ---

    A fourth point: my satire and islam

    I only have one piece which mentions islam, "Ten Years Gone" (http://papapossum.blogspot.com/2011/09/t...).
    It is an ode for marking the tenth year since the World Trade Center attacks.
    The thrust of the piece is not islam, but rather how our ruling class whitewash islam - much how the globalist leadership all over the world do the same.

    In my opinion, islam is a know quantity: anyone who can't see it for what it is (an ultra-violent manifest-destiny theology) is being willingly naive and, for survival reasons, is to be dismissed.

    So, to me, there is no point in satirizing islam: it is what it is.
    There is, however, a point in satirizing the whitewashers and the willingly naive.
    When I get to writing a piece on the Charlie Hebdo attack, that's the approach I will be taking,

    ---

    A fifth point: my satire and islamists.

    My Papa Possum twitter account (https://twitter.com/papapossum) does not have that many followers (currently 33).
    One, possibly two of those followers are recent and both appear to be islamists.

    I think that it's a safe assumption that he/they have read the "Ten Years Gone" piece and is/are "monitoring" my account.
    I didn't bother to block he/them because that too would be pointless.

    ---

    A final point: the cartoon you posted.

    I have not seen the cartoons which Charlie Hebdo published, so I can't determine the "offense level" of them.
    However, to me this particular cartoon is an apologist piece, and a bit absurdist: blacks did not sit in trees with bananas,
    jews did not count money while wallowing in entrails.
    Islamists, however, are ultra-violent.

    To me, the cartoonist is one of the willingly naive to be dismissed for the sake of survival.

    ---

    I am open to other further questions.
    I will get to them when I can throughout the day (see point 1)

    Thanks, K, for starting this thread.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
      Euda,
      1. Let's say some far-left group saw your satires and were offended enough to let you know how they felt. Shooting you in the street, is probably not likely. But let's say you started receiving threats from an enviro-terrorist group or the Occupy Wall street bunch for example. Would that at all affect how and what you wrote?

      2. To that point, your satire hits a nerve with a large group of people and a powerful government. Do you ever worry you could be targeted, even indirectly (the man who shoulders the blame to this day for the Benghazi attack) by the US government?
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by  $  Eudaimonia 2 years, 5 months ago
        1a) "[Leftists] Shooting you in the street, is probably not likely."
        Agreed, blacklisting and vilification are more their speed.
        Although, in the 70's, leftists here and in Europe were not opposed to terrorist "direct action", just ask Obama's buddy Ayers.

        1b) "Would that at all affect how and what you wrote?"
        That's hard to say: I would like to think that I would be brave and noble.
        Looking objectively at my past and my previous reactions to aggression, I would probably respond with a scorched earth piece on whoever threatened me.


        2a) "your satire hits a nerve with a large group of people and a powerful government"
        If the specific nerve you refer to is "indifference", I would have to agree with you.
        Seriously, I doubt very many people read my satire.
        But, I write because I have to.
        As Juvenal wrote: "It is difficult not to write satire. For who is so tolerant of the wicked city, so steeled, that he can restrain himself."

        2b) "Do you ever worry you could be targeted, even indirectly ... by the US government?"
        There have been many pieces about which, right before posting, I have confessed to my wife - this is the one that's going to prompt the "knock on the door".
        To date - nothing, and I'm sure, just as I'm sure that they really don't care, that it will remain that way.
        However, if I ever do get that "knock on the door", I will try very hard to concentrate on the benefit of having gained what little "street cred" there is to gain.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
          to illustrate radical left wing terrorists:
          Little Billy Pipebomb

          A commentary on the life and times
          of a friend of The New Regime,
          Mr. Bill Ayers.


          Little Billy Pipebomb

          had a very misspent youth,

          forecasting Weather Underground,

          a terrorist for “Truth”.


          He and his buddies set their sights

          to take the system down,

          then bombed the cops and then

          The Congress and The Pentagon.


          Billy never went to prison

          'cause he took it on the lam,

          and while he hid the things he did

          he hatched some other plans,


          like teaching Marx to kids,

          launching political careers,

          a fuzzy “reformed” terrorist

          with a bunch of crazy years.


          But on the day The Towers fell,

          there in The New York Times,

          was Little Billy Pipebomb's wish

          he had done further crimes.


          His policies are in our schools,

          he's launched a President,

          yet no one talks of Billy Pipebomb

          and his very youth misspent.

          Little Billy Pipebomb, Copyright © 2009 Papa Possum
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
          do you mind mentioning a few? I know which ones I would say...
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by  $  Eudaimonia 2 years, 5 months ago
            Any of the "Happy Birthday, O Dear Leader" series which I faithfully post on Obama's purported birthday each year of his terms in the office.

            Definitely "Aeneas", everything about that piece from the subject matter, to the allegory, to the intention, down to the meter used was intended to be a gauntlet thrown down.

            "Foreign and Domestic" for obvious reasons.

            Any of the pieces which point out the growing tyranny such as "Leviathan", "Historia Dea Stili", "Stick and Stones", and "Black Hat Realtors".

            Any of the pieces which illustrate the divide between ruling class and country class, but especially "Radio Free America", "Breaking Bread", "The Basement Shelf", and "Rice".

            So, as you can guess, I go to my wife quite often with the "knock on the door" concern. ;)
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
              I instantly thought about the Happy Birthday Series. but the ones that stick with me as "shit, I clicked through to this" are "Aeneas," "Leviathan," "Foreign and Domestic."

              "Black Hat Realtors" reminds me how I see modern day left wing threat-hackers
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by  $  Eudaimonia 2 years, 5 months ago
                "Black Hat Realtors" is about how Harry Reid sicced the BLM on the Bundy family with the claim that they were protecting a desert tortoise but in reality probably protecting a deal Reid's son had with a Chinese solar company that wanted the same land.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by jdg 2 years, 5 months ago
    To their credit, not only have other papers all over Europe reprinted at least some of the cartoons, but French Prime Minister Manuel Valls had this to say:

    "We are waging a war, not a war against a religion, not a war of civilizations, but one to defend our values, which are universal. It is a war against terrorism and radical Islamism, against all who would smash solidarity, liberty, and fraternity. We must defend secularism, without compromise, as has too often happened."

    (source - http://www.francesoir.fr/politique-franc... )

    Anyone who still calls the French cowards may want to rethink that. Our country could have fought back as well as they, but has done mostly stupid things like create the TSA instead.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by strugatsky 2 years, 5 months ago
      The French are undisputed heroes when it comes to words. When it comes to deeds... well, that's a different story. Let's recite a few: harboring Homeini in the '70's and providing an Air France flight back to Iran so that he can take over, creating multiple Islamic states out of French cities, supporting all Arab initiatives (aka attacks) against Israel, allowing rampant antisemitism within France, but cracking down on any expression against Islam... Yea, real heroes!...
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by LetsShrug 2 years, 5 months ago
    This should be a separate post with eud interview in the title.

    I had similar thoughts about the comic on the link, but thought I was misunderstanding something. Kh, what did you think of it?
    All of you who write about non pc subject matter honestly and openly are to be commended on your dedication, your bravery and your determination to shine a light on reality.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
      I see someone who wants to be careful trying to shame others to his way of thinking. His examples are red herrings. Again, if people weren 't so identified with groups (the cartoonist refers to himself as part of a tribe) then people would be less offended and others not offended for them. In many countries that magazine would be banned. Indeed, we held for several years two journalists from Pakistan in Guantanamo who others turned into us as terrorists, all they had done was publish a magazine, like The Onion. I have certainly written things which make me very nervous. Govts have many systems in place to target citizens if they wish. FB has become very PC. You hear all the time about people getting posts or their pages removed or suspended. We self -monitor this site with our down vote and hide features
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
      • Posted by Robbie53024 2 years, 5 months ago
        Satire uses extreme caricature to make a point. How do you make beheading more extreme? Radical Islamic behavior is it's own caricature.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
          how cynical do you want to get? the point is to instill fear. enviro-mentals kill more people, openly profess teh good of population control and have their own army-the EPA and the UN. they steal lives in the dead of night and never get caught. I'll take an in-your face caricature any day. at least I know who the enemy with the real power to destroy is. but keep your focus on ISIS by all means. we'll just keep taking your freedoms away,( in the name of WWIII), putting people in camps (in the name of WWIII) killing innocent people (in teh name of WWIII) soldiers will lose limbs (in the name of WWIII) and our end game will not be clear with a Constitution of our design if we win (what's new with our govt). It'll be Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton sending in soldiers without bullets to be peace keepers and you and many others on these posts will be complicit in your support of it. We need to focus our anger where we can make the most impact against these threats. The ideas. winning back freedoms we have lost-too numerous to count since I was a kid. there will always be monsters...
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
          • Posted by Robbie53024 2 years, 5 months ago
            I'm not sure of your point. Are there others of whom we should also be concerned? Certainly. My point was that satire entails taking a characteristic to the extreme.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by  $  jlc 2 years, 5 months ago
              The annual deaths due to vitamin A deficiency are 125-250,000 (which is to say, 250-500,000 children go blind annually due to vit A deficiency and half of those children die within a year of going blind). There are about 600,000 deaths per year due to malaria. The estimated deaths in 2014 in the middle east are around 300-350,000.

              The deaths due to vitamin A deficiency are almost totally preventable - Greenpeace has been single handedly blocking golden rice since about 2000. DDT is one of the safest chemicals ever developed - you can eat teaspoonfulls of it without coming to harm. The use of this inexpensive insecticide has been blocked by Greenpeace and other environmental organizations since the 1970's.

              So: Who is the monster? Islam, which causes 300,000 deaths per year or Greenpeace, whose tole is twice that number? But that's OK. I mean, it is just mostly children, right?

              Jan

              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by kyllacon 2 years, 5 months ago
    The thing that Joe Sacco has failed to realize is that both black people and Jewish people were persecuted and portrayed as less than human before those kinds of cartoons were ever conceived. The difference is the satirical cartoons of "the prophet" were drawn because of the actions of muslims who are attacking people not defending themselves.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by sumitch 2 years, 5 months ago
    Muslim terrorism

    It's going to do a lot of good for "world leaders" to march arm and arm down the streets in Paris. Nothing that is being done to destroy the root cause of the attacks around the world killing thousands of people. Sure there have been a few killings stopped, but nothing of real consequence. Muslims have attacked and killed millions over the centuries and the only thing that has ever stopped them is to wipe them out. Apparently our PC society feels that this so called religion has some Allah given right to kill all infidels or at a minimum subjugate them into virtual slavery. There is only one way to bring these pigs under control.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
      minus 1. Objectivists would not advocate wiping an entire group of people out. There are billions of Muslims. A small minority are are terrorists. A great majority hold an immoral belief system. It will be ideas that change and reform how people think.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by  $  plusaf 2 years, 5 months ago
      And the root cause is......
      ?
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by jimjamesjames 2 years, 5 months ago
        BELIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Responding to the question,"and the root cause is..."

        A belief is neither truth nor fact, by DEFINITION! (it's 2 am and I've been sipping some cheap cognac)

        Muslims, no less than Christians, et al., BELIEVE... and that is their excuse, rationale, justification to do absurdly irrational things which include murder, demand adherence to folk tales, insistence on certain propriety (no drinking, smoking -- I got my Masters at BYU) and commitment to seriously questionable BS.

        The greatest freedom is to have an excuse for absurdities and BELIEVING is the best available, has existed since conscious thought and is still accepted by..... well, idiots.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by  $  plusaf 2 years, 5 months ago
          No argument from me, Jim... in fact, a lot of agreement!
          I'm two time zones ahead of you and usually chocolate is my drug of choice. :)
          Enjoy!

          Wait... BYU offers a Master's in drinking and smoking?! Wow! :)

          My BSEE is from RPI and I wasn't introduced to Ayn Rand or Atlas Shrugged until about two years out of college at my first Real Job. It's been a fun ride ever since...
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by jimjamesjames 2 years, 5 months ago
            (smiling).. NO!! BYU does not offer a degree in drinking and smoking... LOL... (Thanks, I needed that) but, notwithstanding my agreement to not smoke or drink (or fornicate) (DO NOT TELL THEM I broke all those agreements), it was one of the better educational experiences of my life.

            I first read AR at age 21 (50 years ago) and am still amazed that anyone could write "what I thought."

            In the meantime, I'm going to go get some hot chocolate for my cognac............
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
            • Posted by Robbie53024 2 years, 5 months ago
              So, you promised to behave in some particular ways in order to receive a benefit (your BYU education), and then did not have the moral fortitude to actually conduct yourself as you agreed that you would. I think that speaks volumes.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by jimjamesjames 2 years, 5 months ago
                As one of my Mormon co-grad students said as we had a beer, "They have their rules, I have mine."

                And I might mention, it was a great educational experience (except for them trying to get me married off to a Mormon woman --or two) LOL....
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
                • Posted by Robbie53024 2 years, 5 months ago
                  Hmmm, where I went to school, when one made an oath not to "lie, cheat, steal nor tolerate those who do," we didn't have a perspective of "those are their rules, I have mine." It was expected that if you couldn't live by those standards, then you shouldn't be there.
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by jimjamesjames 2 years, 5 months ago
                    Robbie, if you are castigating me for my decisions, go for it. Won't change a thing.

                    If you are just feeding me shit..... nice try....
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
                    • Posted by Robbie53024 2 years, 5 months ago
                      That is up to you. As for me, your statements speak for themselves.
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                      • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
                        if this was a contract, one could sue for breach? but what was the damage?
                        You also have the problem of consideration. Jim paid for his education. and they came back and said you get this plus these extra rules-none of which had any bearing on performing to the contract. A big question might be what you do on campus reflects on us. what you are doing off campus reflects on you. He was not representing Mormons. That said, you have a valid argument here.
                        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                        • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
                        • Posted by Robbie53024 2 years, 5 months ago
                          Has nothing to do with contracts. Has everything to do with integrity.
                          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                          • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
                            Integrity has to be based in reality. Did BYU show integrity with their honor code? or were they suckering people in with a false premise. I don't want to really argue this-but I would point to over-bearing and obnoxious. you are not a better person for not drinking or having sex. it's irrational
                            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                            • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
                            • Posted by Robbie53024 2 years, 5 months ago
                              Based on whose criteria? Perhaps not yours, but evidently theirs. You don't get to make that decision for them.
                              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                              • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
                                Based on objectivity, of course
                                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                                • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
                                • Posted by Robbie53024 2 years, 5 months ago
                                  You don't get to impart your concepts on them any more than they get to impart theirs on you without your consent/agreement. The origin of this discussion is that there was said agreement - which clearly was fraudulent. I say that speaks to the character of the individual.

                                  You can disagree with those criterion if you choose to, and to that I have no disagreement. However, when you outwardly voice agreement and inwardly refute such agreement, that is hypocritical.
                                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                                  • khalling replied 2 years, 5 months ago
                                  • khalling replied 2 years, 5 months ago
  • Posted by TroutPound 2 years, 5 months ago
    I would like to support the French People by buying newspaper and cartoon pic. Would love to see cartoon pic plastered all over the world in support of French People. Can anyone help in this endeavor. Thank you.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
      are you supporting the fact that the govt has sold weapons to our enemies for decade? are you supporting the fact that the french govt does not allow police with fire power into Muslim neighborhoods? do you support the brits for jailing those who make cartoons such as Charlie did? read up people! be informed! pick your wars cautiously and know your TRUE enemies.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree about lying. Doing is something else. Be reasonable. You and I both know that WP's honor code is reasonable. Point 2 I think is in play here. NOw if you are Air Force Academy cadet, I think their last point probably have a fair amount of rule breakers. what if You are not sure about God? you have no business in the academy? why? to what purpose? to what deficit?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by Robbie53024 2 years, 5 months ago
      Besides, the AFA Honor Code is: We will not lie, steal, or cheat, nor tolerate among us anyone who does. How an individual rectifies the oath that ends with "so help me God," is up to them. For me, it's immaterial, as oaths are mere words, it is the actions that matter.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by Robbie53024 2 years, 5 months ago
      Then don't go. Nobody was conscripted.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
        yes. this is a salient point. I do not mean to demean (ok that's funny to put those two words together in a sentence) taking of oaths. I do want them rooted in reality. after all, I probably made 10 blood oaths before 12 years of age. I always kept my oath. then life meh
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "impart concepts" like reality? lol
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by Robbie53024 2 years, 5 months ago
      You were not advocating reality, rather a value system. Not the same thing, and beneath your usual level of discussion/argument.

      I'm sure that you were monitoring the exchange between LS and myself. Where was I wrong?
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by 2 years, 5 months ago
        if we are discussing objectivity, we are discussing reality. value systems come after. You don't want to acknowledge objectivity. you like things loosey goosey so they "need" faith to set them straight. no, a concept accepted, should be rooted in objectivity. everything about your faith asks the adherent to ignore that-in faith.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo