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    Posted by j_IR1776wg 6 years, 6 months ago
    Marxists are nothing without class warfare. They set up straw men, proceed to beat them, and pronounce themselves victorious. They would be laughable if they weren't so destructive.
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    • Posted by ewv 6 years, 6 months ago
      This is more important than many may realize. The whole scam is based on lumping people into classes by state regardless of who they are, what they have done, what any of it has to do with whether the state is statist red or blue, how the money was earned versus welfare, etc.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 6 years, 6 months ago
    Sara Robinson - You have convinced us! Please now go do what you said. Even if it leaves us unprepared and trying to clean up the fallen house of cards that is a century in the making. Just do it! Let the cards fall as they may.

    It will be better in the long run.

    Jan
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 6 months ago
      I came to the same conclusion as Sara Robinson a decade ago, minus her snide predictions about which places would be better. Let's just leave people alone to live their own way.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 6 years, 6 months ago
    I have a number of problems with this map. For instance, Virginia is shown as a net producer, but half that state is on the federal payroll. The same can be said of Maryland. I do not consider any federal employees producers and neither did Ayn Rand.
    Also note that New Mexico and Michigan is a blue state and it receives some of the most net benefits.

    I think this chart is cherry picking and I call BULL SHIT.
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    • Posted by Maritimus 6 years, 6 months ago
      I think that something is very "fishy" with these "numbers". Several years ago I asked a guy high up in Maryland government bureaucracy what is the main basis of Maryland. His answer: defense, health and education. You do not need to guess who foots the bill for most of those activities. How is that fitting in the "producers" category? The author is good at lying.
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    • Posted by jimslag 6 years, 6 months ago
      New Mexico is so high on benefits due to the high number of Indian reservations, plus the government labs, 3 AFB bases and a couple of Army bases. Almost the whole western half of the state is either Indian land or forest land or BLM land. Even out east, where I live, there is a lot of BLM and State Trust land.
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    • Posted by baron987 6 years, 6 months ago
      The chart is flawed because they include Social Security and Medicare - I PAID FOR THOSE - give me all my money back (along with my employer's contribution plus compound interest - since it was part of my compensation) and I will be very happy!
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 6 months ago
        In addition to db's point, not only are you paying for others who are currently receiving, but those receiving will receive far more than they ever put in, thus being a true wealth redistribution. Not only from you to them, but from your children to them in the form of borrowed funds that eventually will need to be repaid.
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      • Posted by dbhalling 6 years, 6 months ago
        Actually you paid for other people's Social Security and Medicare. Neither are a real insurance or savings program.
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        • Posted by baron987 6 years, 6 months ago
          I know that and now others are paying mine - fine! ALL I said was I wanted ALL I paid + interest, back. That does not change the fact that SS & Medicare are monies that I paid in - Welfare, WIC and all the other handouts are not monies paid in by the recipients.
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          • Posted by ewv 6 years, 6 months ago
            You were forced into the program along with all the other taxes you paid, and the program is still supported by a majority of people, including those paying taxes for it. There is no reason why you should sacrifice yourself and not get back whatever you can. It doesn't have to be the same pieces of paper dollar bills; it's the same system spanning your entire life.
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            • Posted by baron987 6 years, 6 months ago
              You are absolutely correct - why I am trying to say is that if INDIVIDUAL accounts were set up, then all the money in that account would be mine AND my heirs. Now, after I pass - who gets it? - The illegals who never paid in one dime or my family?? How about secure accounts, minimum interest (T-Notes) and the right to pass the balance on to my family!
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 6 years, 6 months ago
            There are a significant number who are receiving from Social Security who also never paid in - survivor benefits. Yes, you can say that their guardian paid in, but these survivors also receive far more than was put in.
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    • Posted by ewv 6 years, 6 months ago
      They also confuse military pensions and social security that people have been forced to pay into as welfare. This distorts the statistical impression, for example with Maine having one of the oldest populations and retirees moving to states like FL and SC.

      But the whole notion of categorizing individuals by state is wrong to begin with. Everyone in a state does not work, think or vote the same. Every state has a large percentage of voters for both Democrats and Republicans despite the assigned "color", and most within both parties are statists to a significant degree.
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      • Posted by jimslag 6 years, 6 months ago
        The population centers skew political voting also. My district is mostly rural but we have Santa Fe, which is very liberal (the People's Republic of Santa Fe), so we have a Democrat as our Representative. The Western District has Albuquerque and Rio Rancho, also liberal, so they have Dem also. The only district that is red is the southern district and that is because it almost part of Texas, big oil and gas country (Permian Basin), Fort Hood, White Sands, and Holloman AFB. The big 3, Santa Fe, Albuquerque and Rio Rancho skew the political landscape to the left and that is the major reason we could not oust the other Udall from the Senate.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 6 months ago
    I'd be happy to see all the states at $1 or less leave and take the Dark Center with them.
    Those companies and organizations in NYC, Boston, DC, etc must cease to do business in the 'Red' states immediately. This includes the EPA, IRS, BATF, FBI, CIA, NSA,etc.
    Somehow I think all the TBTF banks will immediately fail, and Wall St will have 1/4 the people to steal from. With DC gone and competition again in banking and finance in the "Red" states the free market may have a chance again.
    Go Galt, you thieving bastards.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 6 years, 6 months ago
    After I was done reading this North Korea-style puke, I could not help noticing that the socialists are now attempting to hijack another descriptive term and destroy it. Just like they hijacked "liberal" and "democratic," they are now trying to destroy "Objectivism" with "Progressive Objectivism." Never mind that it is a meaningless oxymoron; the purpose is to confuse and destroy. Don't let the parasites have this one.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 6 years, 6 months ago
    The author is absolutely NOT a moron. She is misguided, and perhaps evil in using data to manipulate the masses. Unless we just want to shrug, we need to learn to illustrate the facts to prove our point.
    We need to unwind her arguments and wipe out her credibility.

    The first major assumption she makes is that red states are supporters of Rand. Red is republican, and the platform of that party is not equivalent to Ayn Rand's, either fiscal or social. As often as not these states are stronger supporters of social conservatism than fiscal conservatism.
    Another key point is these benefits are the result of years of legislation, not an instant. Go back and redraw this map in 2008-9, and lets see what it shows.
    Then what are the actual constituents of "payments"? I notice Indian costs are in, but it appears roads, military bases, payments to defense contractors, grants, renewable subsidies... and all other costs of government are missing. for example, we all know Obama-friendly states, like Massachusetts, got inconsistently high sums from the stimulus fund.

    I know there are many more. This is the fight. They are good at it. We have to get better! The fact that Ayn is coming up in the news more than ever is a clear indication these manipulators of the masses are scared.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 6 months ago
    Like all moochers in every argument point out, immediately going to the precept of A.R.'s philosophy would be a disaster. What they fail to point out is that it is not possible to undo over 100 years of the erosion of freedom by Progressives in an instant. If Objectivism were actually put in place, it would be necessary to dismantle their "work" bit by bit like scraping barnacles off a boat. Like a boat, once the barnacles are gone, you can see the functional beauty underneath.
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  • Posted by deshane39 6 years, 6 months ago
    The few producers that are left(and it would be hard to leave the beauty of most of the Blue States) are getting tired of footing the bill for everyone.
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  • Posted by $ richrobinson 6 years, 6 months ago
    That was incredible. How do you reason with someone like this? An absolute moron.
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    • Posted by xthinker88 6 years, 6 months ago
      Oh I don't know. I don't see a lot of people on here reasoning with her at all. Or actually refuting her which would be better.

      I suspect there are several factors taht would allow a complete redrawing of the map:

      1. Population - some of these things are probably related to economy of scale as costs are spread more thinly in more populous states and the more populous states tend to be blue states.
      2. Military Pensions - I'm not sure this would have a big impact but should probably be removed from the equation.
      3. VA benefits - depending on the benefits of course this should probably be removed from the equation.
      4. Money spent to maintain federal lands should not be a "benefit" counted to western states that have had much of their land taken by the federal government.

      I'm betting that if we made a chart and took the top XX number of cities in the US by population. And compared benefits received in those cities using this type of comparison - the result would be very different. And following the Pareto principle there would probably be very few cities needed to get a sizeable percentage of the US population accounted for.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 6 years, 6 months ago
    Well, maybe if the blues are stupid enough to give more of their money to the Feds to redistribute, they should be glad it's going to people that can do something with it.

    What a total nonsense divergence from reality!
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  • Posted by sfrgrdave 6 years, 6 months ago
    Again, an example of a progressive spouting off information based on their skewed perceptions. What this dolt does not realize is that like others who used the GI Bill, I had to contribute $100/month for the first year of my enlistment. $100/month is a lot for a mere private making only $500/month (late 1980s dollars).
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    • Posted by ewv 6 years, 6 months ago
      It was also an agreed-upon part of your income, not welfare, no matter what proportion you also paid into it. There is waste in the military, but that does not characterize the military as such as the equivalent of nothing but a source Federal welfare subsidies.
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  • Posted by Itheliving 6 years, 6 months ago
    The progs are in charge of printing money forget that the wealth they create is debt to those working for ours. I wager Sara has the tens of millions on welfare food stamps thrilled to hear how they are the true producers.
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  • Posted by bassboat 6 years, 6 months ago
    OK, the north is supreme so says this self appointed guru. Let's take him up on his offer, let's quit taking money from the "producers". I propose that the red states quit paying federal taxes of all kinds and the blues can do what they want with their money. I also propose a return to states rights where each state can impose it own taxes if it so desires. Something must be wrong with the system if every child in Alabama is so warped and undereducated to the quality of the northern schools. Let's also have two currencies, the north can keep their US dollars and the red states can print their dollars called US Red Dollars. Let the market pace decide which has more value. Surely we ignorant res staters have no chance and therefore how could they possibly turn this down? They are so used to cramming their utopian way of thinking down our throats that they can't see the misery that they have inflicted on people. It funny how most all of the big northern cities are imploding because of debt and they are all run by democrats. Well we red staters say keep your money and we'll be glad to have our rights back that they have stolen from us.
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  • Posted by teri-amborn 6 years, 6 months ago
    Interesting that the author NEVER mentions that the "tax base" is being stolen from them through force...
    As I told a friend if mine: "Tell them that we will do just fine without them...they won't be able to eat without us!"
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  • Posted by jdg 6 years, 6 months ago
    If lefties want to "go Galt", they'll have to enact the same kinds of measures we would, namely, they'll have to reduce or take away the feds' ability to transfer money from one state to another. Let them go on thinking it will hurt us. The more they do it, the better.
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  • Posted by Geckowolf 6 years, 6 months ago
    Wow! I'm fascinated and shocked that there are Progressives out there who actually think that they can take credit for being "Producers." They are actually more like the Wesley Mouch and Jim Taggarts of the world. I have always worn many hats, many years ago when I was an aspiring Front-Man Lead Singer for a Rock'n'Roll band, I wrote a song called S.O.S. (Strike on Society) which really fits in with the idea of Producers just Shrugging on everyone. In reality, its just Lyrics because I was never able to master the Guitar to be able to put music to them, and I was eventually kicked out of my own Rock Band shortly after we performed a cover of Motley Crue's "She's Got the Looks that Kill" at our High School Talent Show because I really could not sing at, just yell and scream at the top of my lungs. (But it sounded good anyway just because our two guitarists and our drummer was highly talented.) I ended up becoming a successfull Certified Public Accountant (CPA) and Chartered Global Management Accountant (CGMA) and have had the opportunity to serve as an Advisor and Right-Hand Man to many different Producers throughout my career. I also serve as volunteer Treasurer/Bookkeeper for the Tea Party Patriot/Christian-Faith-based group Founders Values that seeks to educate the public on the values of the Founding Fathers such as George Washington, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson and Constitutional Values and restore them to the Public Interest. and Consiousness. In my free time I am working on inventing the Prototype for a Family Board Game which I have shared with the Leadership Team at Founders Values.
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  • Posted by rbunce 6 years, 6 months ago
    Texas not a blue State but I would encourage the Blue States to withhold their Federal taxes and keep them for themselves. The Red States will withhold their fossil fuels.
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