I would have no problem voting for your preference.

Expect euthanasia to be universally legalized and foisted upon many.

At least that's away from direct contact with the Wall St rapists in club fed. Oh, forgot they are still pillaging in NYC and the Dark Center.

That could never happen. Not in America,
(but you're in Amerika now, Toto.)

And well on their way to inciting a revolt.

Once you are victim to the healthcare mega machine, your opinion will change. I like Atlas and it has good points, but it is not the total solution. There needs to be checks and balances. Common sense, good practices and policies. And oversight, by the public who does not get paid and who opens themself up to full disclosure so everyone can see they are not paid off to look the other way, as happens most of the time with oversight.

Open YOUR mind and undo the brainwashing you cling to. Maybe you should reread Atlas...And dive into some of Rand's other works too. The Virtue of Selfishness and Capitalism the Unknown Ideal for starters.

Have an open mind. I never thought I would like Atlas Shrugged, and I find a lot of good in the story, but not all of it.

Ovomitcare was never intended to improve health care. It was intended to destroy our current healthcare system, so that the public would demand a single-payer national healthcare system.

I stopped reading at "a little socialism is a good thing". Wow.

not for profit only means that the huge chunk of money that should be going to patient care and staff and upgrades, goes there, and not into the pockets of the very few. There are a few industries that need this, healthcare is one. A little socialism is a good thing, just like a little capitalism is a good thing, but you can't have absolute of either. It has to be a mix. With the new medical insurances, everyone is covered, so it is not a worry whether they will get paid or not. Medicare and Medicaid need to be rolled into one govt. program. As it is now, it is so complicated and there is so much overhead, that 90% of the money going into those programs goes to admin costs, not to pay the bills of the patients.

Each year, with the COL increase, if you have Medicare and Medicaid, the state has to redo the numbers and it takes about 24 hours of employee time to do this. A simpler solution would be to have 1 system, run by the govt that pays the healthcare, and if the COL increase causes a need for a spend down, which it usually does, than they could decrease food stamps or not give the COL. A simple solution that would save billions.

There are a lot of these wasteful problems in all industries, but all they look at is employees as being the wasteful part, and capital improvements, nothing else.

Here, a private company took, and blew, over a billion dollars in tax payer money, and the state had to step in to complete the project and pay the workers and the bills.

No one was charged with anything, and now the company is making money and they don't have to pay anything back.

This is wrong, and this happens way too much.

When you look deeply at the whole scene, not just one or two levels, but the big picture, you realize you are being ripped off by corporations, and there are no checks and balances to protect it from happening.

Don't blame the little people, at least not all of them. Some are bad, and abuse the system, but the biggest losses come from the money corps steal from taxpayers. I can give examples

can we spell "death panels" ... Sarah was right!!! -- j

I want Scott Walker, with Bobby Jindal as vp -- we might
actually get something done with them!!! -- j

perfect example of government inefficiency ruining
an industry. . the bureaucrats won't be satisfied
until they drive everyone with a decent salary
down to the middle class, and tax the middle class
into relative poverty. -- j

At who's expense?? Gee, great idea, rad, go start a non profit hospital. Don't forget to treat anyone who walks into your ER whether they have the ability, or intent to pay too. (It's the law) But hey, being a non profit, that should be a piece of cake.. And that can double as your free lunch.

Not for profit. Make min standards for staffing, performance reviews to set pay and someone from an outside company to be sure that the equipment works, staffing is being met, and patients are receiving the needed care in a timely manner.

And the solution is..... ?

The doctors and nurses should be paid according to how well they do. I have no problem with them making money, but the corp they are working for is forcing them to work for less. That goes against the American way of life. You work hard, you want to be paid. The corporations, who do nothing, are saying no, we want all the money. That is where the problem is, and they put nothing back into the system I have seen the inside, and equipment is broken, hospitals are falling apart, literally, and now the big thing is drug treatment, because there is money in it, where they just stick people in a room to detox for a month. Min cost, max profit. I have no problem with a doctor making a million a year, but not the hospital. it should put all its money back into new equipment, more staff, etc.. Not take the moeny and run. This has been coming for 30 years, since the 80's people I know in the healthcare industry, they were looking to get out, because they knew what was coming. Try finding a private doctor any more. here, in NY, we have 3 huge mega corps that own everything. You have to go to a doctor that is owned by one of those 3. It is not good, for anyone.

Here, in Albany, NY, St Peter's Health Partners, which is Ascension Health, a huge mega corp, bought hospitals, and closed them, bought cardiologists, G.I., neuro, etc.. and all the labs and closed about half and fired nurses and hired techs to replace them, and getting your blood drawn is a very painful experience, if they can get it, because they are not qualified for the jobs they are given. They are lobbying hard to get rid of nurses and X-ray techs, and any other job that requires a degree and licencing. They want to have 10 dollar an hour people doing the jobs. The insurance companies make the decision whether you get the operation before the doctor even gets a say. I was told I was not allowed to see a cardiologist, by the insurance and the doctor because the healthcare company deemed it too expensive. I paid out of pocket and it saved my life, but this should never happen. There are plenty of medical people, dr's and nurses and qualified people that can do the job, but like Walmart, who says if there are more than 3 people in line they will open another lane, they lie. They are happy to see the line go to the back of the store with only 4 self checkouts open, because it makes them a lot of money. Pharmacies are the same. I worked filling scripts at a mail order pharmacy and I questioned how I could do that when I had no medical training and the law says you have to be a pharmacist to fill them. I was shown the door. There were over 600 people working with me, none of them pharmacists. One of the largest mail order pharmacies too. What the law is, is not being enforced. We need more oversight in healthcare and we need, for the good of everyone, to make healthcare not for profit and not allow stock to be sold for these companies, and these monopolies need to be broken. Doctors, nurses, techs, and patients all agree on this. It is what the people want.

they will put you in a jail cell with a serious wrong doer, a guy that smoked grass in a state where it is still illegal.

Get the gov out of ALL of that. Privatise everything...of course people should make a profits, people won't work or do a good job for free. (Would you? That's slavery.) Doctor's, teachers, etc aren't there for charity...we all deserve to be paid what we earn, good grief. Almost all of these issues are brought on by gov interference...follow it backwards. And also a lack of a rational philosophy about life is missing here. Stop blaming greed for everything. Wanting to be paid for your work is not greedy.. Wanting people to work for free, or having the gov take over to steal the labors of others IS.

The article linked did not give a baseline of 'how many hospitals close per year' - even without Obamacare. I looked for that information and could not find precisely what I wanted, though I found an interesting article on rural hospital closures and the effect thereof on the surrounding economy. The timespan is about 1990-2000, so too early to measure the effects of Ocare, but it does project a per capita drop in income in the surrounding community (~$700) and an increase in unemployment. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...

Here are some additional data on Medicare hospitals opening/closing 2000 through 2010: https://aharesourcecenter.wordpress.com/...

So far, I cannot find any good source that shows 'How Ocare has increased hospital closures'.

However. I can discuss clinical laboratories, because that is what we deal with daily. Since we stared business in 1994, we have been made aware that a lab that does predominately Medicaid business cannot keep its doors open. The rule of thumb that most lab owners use is that Medicaid is a slight loss; private Insurance must exceed the Medicaid patients in order to have a profitable lab. (Medicare was about break-even.) Lowering Medicaid reimbursements puts in into the Medicaid class - you now need to balance it with the ever-decreasing private Insurance payments.

We have commented on another thread as to how the USA is overpriced in medical charges. Some of this difference may be made up by increased efficiency, but much of both the high prices and low profitability is due to regulation and lack of competition.

We can really do much better than this, but the government has to stop playing doctor.

Jan
(Medical Necessity has been a part of the schema for >20 years. We have a whole module that we sell that matches up the diagnosis with the tests ordered and tells you if you will be reimbursed for the tests if you run them.)

i just read on drudge that according to gruber obamacare is un-affordable and people will be denied services such as surgery unless of course you want to pay full price out of your own pocket. it does not matter how you debate this deal it ain't good for us.

I couldn't afford insurance before Obamacare. Now I still can't afford Obamacare and I have to pay a fine for being too poor for insurance and not poor enough for Medicade. >.<