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  • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 4 months ago
    I'm sorry, but DR is a simpleton. For anyone who can't budget, spends everything in their wallet, and charges on credit with abandon, then perhaps the simplistic advice of DR will help. Create a budget, cut up your credit cards, pay off your debt.

    But for those of us that can actually reason, that advice will not help you to maximize your financial well being. For example, I put nearly everything that I purchase on my Amex. That happens to be an Exec Amex from Costco (free since we have a family member who works for Costco). For the past several years, I've received about $1500 in rebates each and every year. Heck, when I built my house, I charged everything that I could and got over $2200 back. That's tax free money in my pocket that I would not have if I listened to DR.

    Likewise, I have low interest rate loans (now only a mortgage and HELOC remaining). I could pay them down faster than I am (which is actually faster than the designated payments) but why should I sink that money into 4% interest loans when I get more than that return on investments? Yes, it's at risk and paying off the loan is a sure thing, but right now I've been successful at maintaining that level of return.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 4 months ago
      Robbie,I agree with you. That's where I believe his advice is wrong! 1. I use credit cards to make money just as you do. 2. When major inflation is on the horizon, paying off debts with a fixed interest rate is a dumb idea.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 4 months ago
        You and I are on similar wavelengths.
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        • Posted by samrigel 9 years, 4 months ago
          I find paying interest on anything one does not have to pay interest to be a dumb idea whether fixed or adjustable. Just how I roll. If one has the means to pay something off and thereby pay less in interest that is the correct way to handle it. Since getting interest on savings is generally less than 2% and interest on cars etc if considerably higher. I also have an Am Ex and don't charge on it unless I can pay the total balance when the bill comes in.
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 4 months ago
            Well, if you look at it a bit more deeply, since inflation is typical (although not absolute, and deflation does occur, just not very often) the value of the money that you pay over time is worth less, so if you keep the interest rate relatively low, paying over time can be a good policy. But doing the analysis and keeping track of things isn't for everybody (it is for me - started using MS Money back when it first came out and now have been forced into Quicken).
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            • Posted by samrigel 9 years, 4 months ago
              All that may be as you say I would not argue that point. I have been and am still using MS Money since version 2.0. However, my point with or without the inflation numbers and deflation numbers, which I do not keep track of as it is useless to my frame of reference, which is to pay as little for an item, whether it is a car, house or pajamas. I use only AmEx and refuse to own a VISA or Mastercard. When the bill comes in I pay the total balance. If I have to wait to purchase a large item that is fine. I pay only the annual fee and NO interest on my AmEx. This works very well for me but may not be for everyone. The time spent following and calculating the inflation and deflation numbers can better be spent doing wood working projects or reading articles and comments on Galt's Gulch.
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              • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 4 months ago
                If you have a Costco within a reasonable distance, I'd recommend becoming an exec member. Free Amex, cash back on purchases, plus an additional 2% back on all Costco purchases. And if you don't get a rebate that at least pays for the Exec membership, they will refund the cost of the exec membership. Great deal.

                I'm curious, do you not download banking info into Money? I thought that most institutions stopped when MS discontinued the software. If they are still doing so, I'm going back - I hate Quicken, MS Money was so much better.
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                • Posted by samrigel 9 years, 4 months ago
                  Thanks for the suggestion but the nearest to me is over an hour away.

                  I use Money for checks only. Any information that is in the software in put in there by me. I do not do banking of any sort online. I have spent many years in the computer industry and fully understand that the "Secure Server" is not always secure. Cases in point: Home Depot, Sony just to name a few etc. The best way to be secure is to not pass vital information across the Net that could give someone access to a banking account. I am up on technology but I am still somewhat old school. ;-)
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    • Posted by EskimoBro 9 years, 4 months ago
      I agree! I think you better start up your own show and put Ramsey out of business.
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      • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 4 months ago
        I agree but think Ramsey serves a purpose. A vast majority of Americans actually need help figuring out that they should avoid debt, etc. I wish there wasn't a market for that simple stuff. But, there's a huge market for it.
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        • Posted by EskimoBro 9 years, 4 months ago
          Unfortunately I must also agree with you. It is quite sad, really.

          But at the end of the day it doesn't matter what I want / think should happen. The free market will be the deciding factor for who people go to for advice. And it just reinforces what you just stated.
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  • Posted by PeterAsher 9 years, 4 months ago
    Something I posted in the run-up to Y2K (The biggest urban legend before Man-made global warming)

    Suppose the world collapsed back to basics. You may have by then accumulated a substantial stored value in gold. I, on the other hand would probably have prepared for that eventuality by acquiring a wheat field, a stone grinder and an oven. Unless you use some of that gold to acquire the means to produce something for exchange, I will eventually have all your gold and still have my wheat field, grinder and oven.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 4 months ago
      That is true, so, like most things in life, it is not the singular answer. But if you are looking to store your wealth, better to do so in gold than fiat currency. That currency can be worthless tomorrow. Gold will not likely ever be worthless, and over time has proven to hold value better than any other asset.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 4 months ago
        Ok let me clear this up. I'm a big gold and silver guy. I have over a one year supply of food, I have many guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition, a generator, I'm a farmer so I have plenty of ground to plant crops into. So for anyone to buy gold for a crisis my full recommendation would be to have food storage first and foremost. So I can tell you right now, no one is stealing my gold and silver. And when a crisis hits you're correct in the beginning people won't understand the value of gold and silver they will just be worrying about feeding themselves and their families. (That's why there will be riots) When those people kill themselves off, after a short while people will recognize gold and silver as money again. Check out the last 7 minutes of one of my podcast episode, "Japan and what a currency collapse looks like." When a currency is collapsing gold and silver are seen as money once again. (As they should be) There is a reason gold has been seen as money for thousands of years. Because it is REAL money.
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  • Posted by NealS 9 years, 4 months ago
    I agree with all the comments here, but DR puts out some good common sense information. My wife was in mortgage business before the government screwed that all up, then she retired. Many unqualified clients came to her to try to get money to buy a home. She bought one of Dave's book by the case and passed them out to many she felt were smart enough. Others she just told to go out and buy his book. Many of those she gave the book to came back in a year or so and actually qualified for a good mortgage. The book apparently was so easy to read and specifically told them what to do. They had cleaned up their credit cards and other credit issues and even saved some down payment money. Most brought her a gift, flowers, or something later relating that she and Dave had changed their lives. I personally had not realized that so many people are so ignorant about credit, finances, savings, etc. until she showed me. Apparently common sense isn't that common. It's actually been a majority of new buyers that just didn't get it, that listened to the likes of those in congress that told them to buy a home with nothing down.

    I guess I learned when I was young, by saving my car washing, lawn mowing, weed pulling, bus boy, dish washing, paper route, box boy money to buy my first home at age 20. I've always used credit cards, used to put the cash in a jar at home after buying gas to insure I'd have the cash at the end of the month to pay the bill. I once paid $0.05 in interest on a credit card, but got it back because it was a bank error. Never paid another cent of interest on a credit card in my whole life.

    I bought my first real car ('57 Chevy Bel Air Hardtop) with payments to GMAC. After I figured out how much extra that cost me I made payments to myself to have cash to the buy my next and all future cars for cash. I use credit cards for practically everything to establish credit,. get miles, but pay them off each month. We've used my Alaska AL VISA miles to take the family to Beijing, several trips to Maui, mainland flights, etc., and I've still got over 300,000 miles left.

    Twice a bank (Seafirst [now gone]) offered me $10,000 dollars, once for 3 months and once for 6 months, free of interest changes. I guess they expected me to keep it longer so they could add on some interest. I took it both times, put it in my interest bearing savings, and paid it back the day before it was due. They stopped sending me those offers.
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    • Posted by BeenThere 9 years, 4 months ago
      NealS

      "I took it both times, put it in my interest bearing savings, and paid it back the day before it was due. They stopped sending me those offers."

      Boy, do I love that...........sort of "Ragnar-ish" in a way....................I don't get offers any more either......................
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    • Posted by 9 years, 4 months ago
      That's a great story. Dave Ramsey doesn't believe in using credit cards at all. But of course people aren't good with money like you are and as responsible as you. I use credit cards for everything as well and I pay them off in full every month.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 4 months ago
    In this socialist and government controlled economy, the only way to really survive IS TO BE IN DEBT. Borrow as much as you can, let Obama' money printing machine automatically reduce your debt for you, and when the inevitable crash comes the debt is wiped out. Sad and kind of immoral, but is the alternative to save money and be wiped out by Obama's inflation? I say inflation in prices is more like 10% a year now, and CD interest is like 1%. If you are lucky and can time the stock market casino, you can make money there, BUT you have to get out quickly when things turn south.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 4 months ago
      But don't be in debt to the gov't. They'll come after the funds from your heirs. Funny how if you die, your debts die with you for everyone except the gov't. They're also one of the only ones who demand payment in advance. I must deposit funds into an escrow for my iPass, my property taxes are paid in advance for the coming year, and the gov't demands that I pre-pay my income taxes, taking a minimum of 90% of what is owed (to avoid penalty for insufficient payment).
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      • Posted by term2 9 years, 4 months ago
        What that says is that the government is in it to collect whatever it can, whenever it can and in the most ruthless way it needs to. Francisco was right in AS 1- Its a war and we need to take sides.
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  • Posted by barwick11 9 years, 4 months ago
    Dave Ramsey is speaking to an audience of the average American. And, the above-average American to be honest because even they (on average) can't handle their money.

    Nobody but the very dedicated and skilled at watching markets and trends should be investing in gold. If you don't understand it, you should NOT be investing in it, period. Otherwise, you are risking your assets based on the advice of someone who may (or may not) know what they're talking about. In this case, it may be good advice to buy gold, but, as I said before, it is YOUR responsibility to fully understand every niche and detail of the market you are investing in, whatever it may be. I'm not going to invest in an art gallery, even if everyone says it's an awesome investment, becuase I have no friggin' clue about that business.

    THAT is why Dave Ramsey suggests you don't invest in gold. And aside from the last decade or so (in which I've made plenty of money on silver, and since sold when I realized my gains), gold and silver have underperformed relative to other investments.

    His suggestion has always been to find a managed mutual fund that has a historical record of performance. In it you pay professionals to manage it for you. You can do no such thing with gold/silver.

    AND, in the end, if North Korea sells a nuke and a 1000 mile range rocket to ISIS, which they then throw onto a container ship, park in a harbor in Galveston, launch and airburst it over the middle of Kansas, knocking out the entire electrical grid and most electronics in the US... what do you think your gold is going to be worth to the local shopkeeper? "Hey dude, I know your family is starving, but let me give you this 10 oz gold bar in exchange for that bushel of apples, so you can make some pretty jewelry..."
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 4 months ago
    DR is correct. when the ecomony collapses gold will not get you anything because the person you want to give it to will not be able to do anything with it.
    go to an expensive restaurant and have a $800.00 meal and when you get the bill put a kugerand down as payment and see if the will take as a medium of exchange? gold is only good for jewelry or use for computer chips.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 4 months ago
      Ohh come on man. The sister metal to gold is silver. So if your eating at a restaurant you would put down silver as payment for your meal. Gold is real money!
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 4 months ago
        There's nothing inherent in gold that makes it money. Gold is money only because we all accept it as money. We do so because it is relatively rare and relatively difficult to get more of, so it is relatively stable. If, however, a mountain of gold weighing hundreds of tons were to be discovered, then it too might become worthless. I don't foresee that happening, nor do most other people, so I think it's safe.

        That's one reason that Russia hasn't dumped the tons of diamonds that they have locked up in vaults onto the market, and sell them at a slow pace. If they flooded the market, they'd be worth much less than they are in small amounts.
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  • Posted by $ pixelate 9 years, 4 months ago
    I have long known of Dave Ramsey's dislike for gold. On one rare occasion, about three years ago, when I actually listened to his program, he volunteered Why he didn't care for gold. He explained that 20+ years earlier, when he was younger and much less investment-savvy, he put a good bit of money into gold speculation (not physical, mind you). He lost his shirt. He went on to say that his dislike for gold was purely emotional. It was then that it made sense to me -- he didn't have a rational reason to dislike gold; it simply stemmed from the emotional response to a poorly executed investment decision.
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