Gotcha. +1.

So, what I am saying, blarman, is that your own individually controlled savings should be as...discrete...as possible. Not labeled as 'retirement' in in official (401K) manner. And perhaps saved as assets rather than as money - eg rental properties.

Jan

In a rational world, yes, we'd still own our assets. You point out the reality that rationality is only clinging by its fingernails in today's world. Sigh.

And Cyprus was a frightening example of what could happen, I agree. I would like to think (especially given the shift in power after the last elections) that it wouldn't happen in the US, but Obama could always order it by executive fiat, and I doubt Boehner would object.

While I agree that much of the waste is due to politicians I'd be willing to bet there is significant waste inside the military. It is the nature of the beast when anyone is spending money they don't own.

I'll give you that one. The only thing is if it were privately run we would either do a better job for less or get twice as much for our money. So much waste that could be used in better ways. We only have to look at the VA scandel to see they can do better.

Personally I don't believe there is anything that is run by government that won't fail at some point. Governments don't have the forces working for them that are necessary for long term success. The single most important force being competition.

Right, but in this case it is not a probability. It is physically impossible, unless you think 5 million immigrants the Obamanation is allowing will all pay in willingly. Otherwise the numbers around today guarantee failure. They can only slow the time down if they took action, which they never will.Raising the age just gets them a couple of years more, which is nothing. SS=CA+Water.

Exactly! Thank you!
Now help me find a way to get that idea into more minds! As too many managers have told me in the past, "You're just not saying it right..."

After a while, I just concluded that I was trying to transmit an FM signal to a bunch of AM receivers. And you know the output of an AM receiver when subjected to an FM signal, right?

Silence.

Our saving grace is high productivity through hi-tech. The individual in our hi-tech environment hardly needs to lift a finger to sustain himself.
There are no 'real' shortages. Disruptions are result of dysfunctional government or occasional natural disaster.
A breakdown in socio-economic structure or hi-tech failure is the biggest threat to our future.
It's the manipulation of the ignorant masses by the psycho-elite that bring chaos to an otherwise stable environment. Here in the U.S. it's a 2-Party Turf War. Both sickened with their self-delusion of importance. Both causing more harm than good, seeming to enjoy the pain inflicted on others.

+1 for you. "Any REAL plan to correct the deficiencies should and must be phased in over at least one entire working lifespan... 40 years or more. " I fully agree. The only sane way out of this Ponzt scheme is for America to walk our way out of it over the next 30-40 years. If you are 65 this year, you'd get 100% of promised benefits, If 60, 90%, 55, 85%, etc. At the same time start a massive education campaign to teach people on how to plan for and be responsible for their own futures. At the same time start chopping government agencies and programs, such as, Department of Education, Department of Energy, EPA, Obamacare, and the IRS for starters.

Actually I can see a day coming (and soon) where you will be taking a little pill instead of going to a nursing home.
I plan on working until the day I die.

Hate to sound like a broken record... oh, hell, I don't care... but for years I've been trying to point out that the 'problems' with SocSec have developed over the Entire Span of Time that it's existed, but pols and stupid voters ALWAYS are trying to figure out how to solve the inevitable problems during the next election cycle.

Which is 'frutile,' as an old college bud used to put it... a combination of futile and fruitless.

Any REAL plan to correct the deficiencies should and must be phased in over at least one entire working lifespan... 40 years or more.

I've suggested converting to an Opt-In Or Opt-Out choice for everyone newly entering the workforce... a decision to own all of your retirement savings and manage them yourself, OR let the bumblement manage it for you, OR split the percentage between the two.

With MAYBE the chance to modify those percentages a little through your work life.

Hell, the SocSec numbers haven't been modified to follow life expectancy over it's own lifetime! What was it at the start? 63-64 years? Retirement at 65 meant a negligible payout period, easy to cover with taxes and contributions. Today, with life expectancies a decade or two longer, the contributory rates make no sense at all, but they've hardly, if ever, been changed to match.

And everyone wants a Fix that Will Work in the next two to five years...

Utter stupidity and unreality, but hell... So Popular... Makes me sick.

But I've been very lucky in my life. Mom beat "self-reliance" and "stay out of debt" into me at a very early age, so I've saved every penny I could, with the assumption that SocSec would be the icing on the retirement cake, but I'd sure as hell try to maximize the cake _I_ was baking along the way.

Today, SocSec accounts for maybe forty-something percent of our annual 'burn rate' of cash outlays, so if even if it collapses, our end-of-life won't be destitute, though a bunch of downsizing will probably be needed.

People that think their financial needs in retirement will be a lot lower than before retiring are dreaming. Look at your fixed expenses and day-to-day living costs. You'll probably need around 80-90% of your net income At Retirement to live on After Retiring. Food, shelter, misc. insurance costs, rent or mortgage costs don't drop. Clothing? Did you spend all that much on ties and suits that you only wore to work? Those kinds of 'uniform costs' might be the only costs that disappear when you retire.

Did your mom point that out to you? Do you think there's any truth in what I just said?

Good luck, one way or the other!

Armored wheelchairs, electric carts with machine guns, rifled canes, there are always options. Wait until you see something incredible like the Seniors March on Washington sponsored by Viagara. "Give a boner to Obama!"

Robbie, I disagree. The number of eligible workers has continued to fall, and the number of eligible recipients has continued to rise and they live longer. Since there is not 1 penny in real money left, and the SS started to try to collect on the IOUs last year and were not paid, the system must crash as soon as the amount coming is exceeded by the amount going out, which will be very soon if not now. At that point the fed would have to start paying it as apart of the budget annually and that won't happen because it will cut money to the special interests who don't care if grandma starves, unless it is part of their special agenda.

for decades, the dept of energy has been sneaking
around, trying to find a way to get at the money set
aside for manhattan project workers' pensions +
benefits since ww2. . now, they are hitting the new
Pantex and Y12 prime contractor with a mandate
to reduce the costs of pensions and benefits, with
the explicit claim that infrastructure must receive
improved funding as a result.

we in the worker group are griping and protesting,
but they may get away with it. . these are fenced
dollars intended only for workers, since the inception
of the project. -- j

The banks are not going to lose they will Bail in your saving. Now the government will take over the pensions. So what do you plan on. Gold and sliver not in bank box but hidden in some safe, under your control. Buy food and water containers. You see what Detroit going threw.

If you do not do this then you better have move to another country. Ayn Rand wrote what life would be like. All we can hope is there are the people she wrote about as well.

And, from what I have read, if these individual plans are labeled as 'retirement plans' and thus distinguishable from other investments, they may be more subject to seizure by the government. (That is what happened on Cypress...do not recall if it has happened elsewhere.) I was all in favor of 401K's...but now I am not so much...

Jan

My dad and I were just talking about how "retirement" was the most genius thing the government ever designed. They tax us, take money out of our paychecks week after week with the "promise" that they'll give us that full amount 40 years in the future. And who is using that money for the last 40 years? Earning interest? Genius.