" quaint ideas like that can save this nation "
Yes. I think it may be the future. Ron's supposedly quaint old-guy idea is on the verge of being rediscovered and treated like an exciting new concept. We should have trade school + OJT + advanced coursework / research as needed. They're not mutually exclusive. Going to trade school doesn't mean you can get OJT, more coursework, and then work with a private company to help a professor do research and to help yourself earn and advanced degree, if that's what you want at the time. It also doesn't mean you can be happy and rich building on that trade. I'm very critical of model of mindlessly going to college after HS b/c it's the next step.

IMHO one of the incorrect ideas is "The service industry". As a wealth builder service is over inflated. For example; what is the future value of a haircut, a meal well served, or a tax return on April 16th? On the other hand, using our resources and labor force to create products with useful life expectancies is what fueled the dynamic growth of the US economy. To turn away from the simple fact that value added from manufacturing (labor) is where wealth comes from for most people was insane.

Now we have about 1/3 of our population with nothing to do. Not everyone is college material. Someone has to fix our leaking plumbing and keep our cars running well. We walked away from the trades and non college employment and 1/3 of the population is too much to carry. That is especially true when you add the groups that regularly feed on the government teat.

I knew the President was an ideolog when he was elected. Even as cynical as I am, I underestimated him. I had him figured to put his foot on the throat of the economy until he got all, or most, of his agenda in place. The tax rate, the carbon tax, healthcare, etc. Then I figured he would let the economy come back and those long without jobs would be so happy to have a check they wouldn't notice the gross to net calculations. I was wrong. It seems he wants to drive the system down until completely broken and then offer to let the government "save" everyone. Gee, that has an Eastern European ring to it. I further don't believe the average American will settle for the level of wealth the government can provide, and there will be hell to pay. We'll all have to wait and see.

from one retired guy to another, quaint ideas like that
can save this nation -- and our trade schools can
adapt to it! . I worked at a plant for 6 years where
there was a full-fledged welding school operating
on the southwest corner ... and I got to go down
there for a week, as an engineer, to learn about
welding. . worth a fortune!!! -- j

Thank You, Rich! this is the story which Rush tells
every year, which we need to transmit to every kid
in the u.s. -- the free market works!!! -- j

Beautiful

I have known for years that William Bradford saved the Plymouth Colony. He introduced private property, responsibility, and trade.

Back in the stone age companies knew the right people for the job would have to be trained. They had a ladder to climb that started with "entry level". As the employee's experience became more useful and he demonstrated he could get up and come in on time, the boss let him take the next step. People of all backgrounds were taught all the needed to know "on the job".

The last couple of generations have been sold the idea that college can prepare you for the executive suite without any experience. My daughter went to college with people that sat on their butts until "the right job" came along. Some sat for years. My advice to my daughter was to find an opportunity with a ladder and start climbing.

Industries today are crying for skilled trades. What if they started a group of new hires loading boxcars and sweeping floors 6 hrs a day and got paid for 2 hrs training on MIG or TIG, or CNC machining, or whatever the urgent need is of the day? It could lead somewhere and the path many businesses have chosen, waiting to hire Mr/Mrs Right, seems to be a dead end. It's just a quaint old idea from a retired guy; probably of no consequence, never mind.

"Vocational 2 year programs are teaching Construction engineering, welding, CNC machine shop."
It's hard to argue with something either working or not working.

I'd like to think something about open-source mfg, low barriers to entry, and the long tail will lead to the right and left having less influence. I'm hopeful but not confident it will.

I agree. I think in higher education the left is about to run out of gas. I think this because the left seems to have captured the teaching positions in courses of study like; Women's studies, Humanities, Social Justice, and of course journalism. On the other hand hard sciences and engineering schools are teach science and engineering. Vocational 2 year programs are teaching Construction engineering, welding, CNC machine shop. My son in law took a 2 year construction engineering degree and has been busy for 18 years.

All of the social science course work seems to lead to a non degree job ending, unless you stay around post grad and get picked up to teach "Women's Studies". The youth are well aware of how "valuable" these degrees are. So, my conclusion is that the left will have less influence over the next generation. Finally, even for kids, results matter.

I was taught that the Indians taught the Pilgrims to bury fishes with their crops thus fertilizing them and creating bounty. They just couldn't admit to having a free market succeed.

I heard Rush recite "Rush Revere" as I drove over the river and through the woods for an hour to a relative's house Thanksgiving before yesterday's.
Yesterday I listened to a more serious Rush during the same time period.

That's about when I heard Rush speak of the same on his radio show. I was born in '47, but that was the first time I heard of the Pilgrim Socialism experiment. Those Puritans must not have been all that Puritanical with lazy thieving oafs among them.

Rush Limbaugh first wrote about this in "See I Told You So" back in the 1990s.

This post should so be connected to the one that is currently above it http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opin... in the "hot" thread. Yet another reason why Thanksgiving really is the holiday for celebrating the producers and free-market capitalism.

I hardly know the the traditional Thanksgiving story, and it turns out to be a good thing, since according to this the prosperity came long after the event after they implemented reforms.

Oops, I meant for the post to be a reply.

[Thanks for clarifying. I kind of thought that is what you meant but it surprised me that maph posted it.:) ]

Thanks for clarifying. I kind of thought that is what you meant but it surprised me that maph posted it.:)

a pdf of Bradford's journal where he talks about food shortages when their policy was to share harvests. He states that early on, only the men would farm and productivity was low-illness claims were high. As soon as they changed their model to private stakes in the harvest, the women and children came to work the fields and sickness rates dramatically decreased. I tried to find the link in here but couldn't. There was a lengthy discussion regarding it and Maph was the one who started it.
here is a Heritage article with many quotes:
http://www.heritage.org/research/comment...

Sorry, you lost me. What is in here?

I agree it should be taught in school. I read a book 2-3 years ago about the entire story of the Pilgrims coming to this land. The story was amazing and I learned a ton. I will see if I can find the name and post it later.

this is in here. I first learned about it from Maph. It's one of his posts

This as the first time I heard about this. Should be taught proudly in elementary school. More proof the left has control of the educational system.