The Obama Regime Terrifies a Normal Person/Family for 4 Years with ATF Charges

Posted by scojohnson 5 years, 11 months ago to Government
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I actually know Grant fairly well, we were neighbors in my old neighborhood about 10 years ago. Couldn't meet a nicer, harder working guy, did firewall network engineering for AT&T at the time I think. He bought a Ruger handgun from a police officer, went through the required FFL dealer/transfer procedures, filled out the ATF registration forms, and apparently the handgun wasn't on the magical "CA Dept of Justice Approved List" so the ATF went after him like an arms smuggler. This was a regular Ruger handgun, lets not miss sight of that. In Nevada or Arizona, it would be perfectly legal to buy in a parking lot.
SOURCE URL: http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/2014/10/california-gun-owner-defended-by-cgf-not-guilty-of-federal-conspiracy-charge/


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  • Posted by 5 years, 11 months ago
    By the way, this is a $379.00 (retail) handgun made is Prescott, AZ... not exactly an "assault rifle" that the driveby-strike media would like to characterize it as. It probably has a clip of about 6 rounds plus 1 in the chamber (California allows a 10 round clip) and its only definable characteristic is that it is relatively small (a 2.75" barrel). The police officer that sold it to him probably used it as a secondary weapon in an ankle holster or something. Incidentally, the police officer and the Federal Firearms Dealer were not charged... Only Grant, because he was apparently the responsible party to have known it "wasn't" on the California approved-purchase list. Generally, to be on the approved list, the manufacturer has to pay a fee and get the gun tested or whatever by the California DoJ. However, as a trend, they approve very few new guns and usually remove a hundred or so from the list each year with a very visible downward trend to zero.

    http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/models...
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  • Posted by DaveM49 5 years, 11 months ago
    "There is no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking the law. Create a nation of lawbreakers and then you can cash in on the guilt. Now that's the system!" --Atlas Shrugged, of course.

    http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day... "Three Felonies A Day", a book which describes how the average professional, merely in the act of living out an ordinary life, probably commits several federal crimes per day. All that is necessary is the desire on the part of a government official to have them prosecuted.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 11 months ago
      Fortunately malice & intent are generally required to be a crime.
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      • Posted by DaveM49 5 years, 11 months ago
        Difficult concepts to prove. Especially if you are in the position of "having to prove yourself innocent" or the like. Or if someone is willing to make a false report or otherwise lie.

        Not the same topic as the book I mentioned, but anyone who has ever been accused of "domestic abuse" can probably identify. All that is required for guilt is possession of a Y chromosome.
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        • Posted by 5 years, 11 months ago
          The interesting fact here is that neither the FFL dealer nor the police officer selling his used firearm were considered to be at fault... the ATF assumed Grant must have been a guilty party for not bothering to look up to see if it was legal to purchase on an arbitrary California-approved firearms list. In any other industry, the paid professionals (such as the FFL Dealer) would have certainly been the guilty party for transferring or selling the product.
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  • Posted by RonC 5 years, 11 months ago
    In the 17th century people feeling put upon by their government could go and find a new country, or start one. 400 years later the world is a much smaller place, and there is really no pioneer place where freedom rules. It really complicates things for people seeking relief from this fascist. It seems the last great hope for the world hinges on one or two elections. Something I have never understood is if they like European Socialism or Communism or fascism so much better than freedom, why don't they go there and have what they like? Why destroy American Capitalism so they can live like Europeans? Ahhh! It must have something to do with the wealth they can earn here while preaching the benefits of life over there; reference Michael Moore.
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    • Posted by johnpe1 5 years, 11 months ago
      excuse me, Ron -- it would almost only be the wealth
      which they can *steal* here. -- j

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      • Posted by RonC 5 years, 11 months ago
        Mark Levin calls this bunch and their government, "Soft Tyranny". When Muslim terrorists occupy a place, they have a way of beating a modern day building or community back to the stone age. The soft guys seem to want the same thing for us, while preserving the niceties for the ruling class.

        Apparently they haven't seen the movie in which the ruling class cannot get it's flush toilets, air conditioners, or automobiles fixed.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 11 months ago
    What a different world I live in.
    I once bought an AR-15 at a Birmingham Civic Center gun show and carried it in full public view like a suitcase (recall the M16 sights?) down a sidewalk and crossed a street to reach a parking lot under an interstate bridge. Other gun customers were doing the same with assorted weapons.
    What blew my mind was a beggar who asked for money when I was still on civic center property and holding that weapon. I next encountered a security guard I sent running after that beggar's butt. I walked on.
    The rifle was a present for my son. He wanted to own an AR-15. Later he was forced to sell it to some guy when he got into a financial pinch.
    Since then he has mail ordered parts and built his own AR-15.
    It ain't got no serial number, y'all. Bwahaha!
    My son also packs a .45 and can shoot straight too. Proud of my boy.
    Yeehaw! Sweet home Alabama!
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    • Posted by 5 years, 11 months ago
      The AR15 lower receivers have the serial number on it, when you order the lower receiver, depending on state laws, you either have to pick it up from an FFL, or there may be a waiting period to pick up the lower receiver, or the seller transfers the serial number into your son's name. The rest of the parts of an AR are not tracked.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 11 months ago
        Only if you purchase a completed receiver. There are many shops willing to sell you the unfinished receiver - sans serial number.

        http://aresarmor.com/store/Category/hmga...
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        • Posted by 5 years, 11 months ago
          Interesting, although appears to be a little more difficult to integrate (from buyer comments) into a finished weapon (and there is the why? question). About the same price as a completed lower receiver but a little more work. Their upper receivers are pretty stripped and double the going-rate elsewhere.

          http://www.centuryarms.biz/proddetail.as...
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          • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 11 months ago
            Yeah. My comment wasn't an endorsement of that particular vendor. It was just meant as an example of what is available if one is interested. Whether one has the requisite experience to finish the job is another question entirely. ;)
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            • Posted by 5 years, 11 months ago
              Requires quite a bit of mill work... My labor rate per hour is a little more than saving $10...
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              • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 11 months ago
                I don't doubt it. The real question is how much the LACK of a serial number is worth...
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                • Posted by 5 years, 11 months ago
                  not much, as it would be serious felony to sell it ever... I guess you could use a registered receiver to put the pieces & parts on to sell or trade if desired.
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                  • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 11 months ago
                    I would hazard a guess and say that those who are building their own don't really trust the government in the first place or those who believe in the Second Amendment as written: "shall not be infringed".

                    It's obviously not criminals who are interested - they can get one of the "walking" guns from Eric Holder.
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                    • Posted by 5 years, 11 months ago
                      my sentiments exactly, its not for criminals, and the typical law-abiding type doesn't have anything to worry about with it, and I'm sure if they wanted to know who bought the ghost guns, a subpoena of the shipping records from the seller would suffice to figure it out...
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                      • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 11 months ago
                        That is circumstantial evidence - far from what is needed to prove "beyond a shadow of a doubt" as is needed in a federal case. Unless the firearm is used in the commission of a crime and you can do a ballistics match and have a really solid chain of custody, there's no case.

                        Possession of non-serialized parts or even a complete firearm isn't a crime. The only thing you might possible go for is a trafficking violation, but for that you would have to literally have caught both parties IN THE ACT, as well as having proof of original ownership, a receipt, etc. I'd hate to be the prosecuting attorney trying to get all that to hold up in front of a jury.

                        You'd also be constrained by that particular state's laws about the transfer of firearms. There are several states around where I live where you don't have to even know the other party or keep a receipt to sell a gun you own to someone else.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 5 years, 11 months ago
        I've been reading ads in my conservative email that you could mail order AR-15 parts and put together a rifle without a serial number. So maybe I jumped to a conclusion. Especially when one thing I've learned is not to trust even self-professed conservative email when someone is trying to sell something.
        Oh, I know! I'll ask my son about that serial number. Get back with you.
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        • Posted by 5 years, 11 months ago
          Although you can download plans for an AR-15 lower receiver from Distributed Engineering and build it with a 3D printer, the use of the polymer though pretty much limits it to about 100 or so rounds before it is destroyed, but that is the only "non-registered" method (and not a permanent option). Pretty much the entire AR-15 can actually be printed, except the pin, spring & barrel for temporary use. Scary as that is in terms of terrorism, and the pin, spring & barrel are not tracked. You can probably print the spring too, and maybe even the barrel, just not sure that would actually function. Maybe for one shot or something.
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        • Posted by 5 years, 11 months ago
          The lower receiver is a rather innocuous part, it's only the housing that the clip inserts into, the pin, the stock screws on, etc. and upper receiver attaches to. You can certainly order them online, but has to be delivered to a federally licensed FFL dealer. The buyer has to pick it up there and there is normally a transfer fee involved of $20 - $50 charged by the FFL. That's federal/ATF regulation and affects any firearm in the US... its not state level, although individual states may also have the waiting period for a firearm and would affect the lower receiver if applicable for the state, or the receiver would be registered for any state gun registration system or whatever. That registration serves for whatever firearm it turns into.

          The rest of the parts - barrel, bolt, stock, etc., are not tracked and can just be shipped to the buyer's home, as all would require the receiver to be functional.

          It may seem "aimed" toward the AR-15, but actually isn't, all surplus military firearms have their serial number stamped primarily on the receiver and may also have additional numbers on the breach, stock, and other places... M1's, Mausers, K-31's, AK's, etc. It's actually not a new practice, more or less always been like that (I'm a military weapons collector and have a C&R FFL). I have around 50 collectibles ranging from early cowboy lever actions to Swiss K-31s, HKs, SKS, AK-47, AK-74, M1, Mosin Nagant sniper, etc. WWII is my specialty and interest, but I have a few AR-15s as well that I built. I have quite a bit of armorer tools and have & maintain all of mine in completely fire-ready condition. My favorite is probably the Mosin-Nagant (7.62x54mm) - sounds like an AK but has much of the slugging power of a .50 caliber and a 2000 meter range, I can fire that thing through a cinder brick wall and still hit a target with lethal force behind it. The AR-15 .223 round is rather pathetic in comparison. The AR can be an accurate firearm, just not a particular amount of take-down power. Relies on the bullet to tumble & break apart to tear up the inside of a person to be lethal. The WWII high-caliber firearms like the Mosiin and the M1 (30-06) were designed to completely penetrate and pass through the target and "take them out" without necessarily killing them. The intention was to take them out of the fight. In a way, the AR-15 is very inhumane, if I had my druthers in terms of interest of society, I'd ban the .223 round itself and only allow them in .308 caliber (which is also readily available albeit a bit more expensive).
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          • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 11 months ago
            Thanks for the notes. Never had the chance to fire the Mosin. Now I'm curious.
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            • Posted by 5 years, 11 months ago
              There is a very unique 'crack' to the sound of the Russian-designed ball-shaped gunpowder. US and NATO-designs have cylindrical shaped gun powder particles and kind of 'sequence' burn when ignited. The Russian stuff is more of a sudden explosion. It's a very unique sound, the design of the Ak/SKS rounds are very similar to the Mosin, the Mosin is just quite a bit more powerful (7.62 x 39mm versus 7.62 x 54mm). Fun guns to shoot for sure. My Yugoslav SKS is a hoot as well.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 5 years, 11 months ago
    this reminds me of the recent tennessee crap about
    having to have a permit to leave your house with a
    gun. . for open carry in public. . it's all about control --
    so much control that our freedoms are withering! -- j

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