Different ways to Shrug.

Posted by LetsShrug 13 years, 2 months ago to Philosophy
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I am interested in hearing from fellow Gulchers on the topic of shrugging. We all have very different lives, jobs, responsibilities, and economic situations to contend with in our efforts to free ourselves from being looted and mooched from.

Personally, the obstacles we (me and my family) contend with are many. Most of them boil down to lack of funds to go anywhere other than where we are. I also have conflicts with our jobs, but we are working on other options...working HARD, but it will take time. I'm not sure we will ever leave our home, but my bigger goal is to be as free as we can be with what we can produce without being counter productive in the effort.

However, I feel I have already mentally shrugged because I am aware of what needs to be done and working towards it. I stay vigilant in studying (history, current events, politicians and their actions) and I am able to converse about what is happening in this country and where we are headed if more people don't wake up and take a stand.

That brings me to another issue. Knowing when to speak up and who's worth talking to. I won't waste my time on the hopeless. Most outside of the gulch seem hopeless, but I don't miss an opportunity to say what I'm thinking even if others get confused by it. Sooner or later, hopefully, some will wonder enough, or start to notice that things aren't right in this country and maybe they'll ask me what I mean when I say certain things and then we can have a real conversation. Maybe not, but I'm still throwing it out there anyway.

Shrugging can mean different things to different people. What does it mean to you?


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  • Posted by UncommonSense 13 years, 2 months ago
    Your comments echo exactly my views. Especially your last paragraph. To think of all of who attacking us and on how many fronts, it tends to overwhelm and drain me of my mental focus and energy ~ the drive for life.

    I agree with the idea of pulling back on productive effort ~ done that before and really didn't like it. It felt as if I wasn't being honest with who I am and my work ethic. The sick part of that is, it's exactly what one must do when living under the control of looters and moochers: you can't be who you really are and have to put on a mask of pretend. Pretending to be content when you're really not, pretending to stupid & aloof when you're intelligent and alert...basically splitting yourself just to get by in this "utopia" the Libs believe they are creating. It reflects, I believe the mental/emotional conditions of Liberals: split.

    For my family situation, shrugging means driving both of my cars even though one is nearly 200k miles and the other over 154k. I could get newer ones, but why? To give more $ to the State in taxes? Nope. I deny them.

    Shrugging means taking my family of 4 and living in a 2-bedroom townhouse with no basement at an incredible rent price. Could I afford more & better? Absolutely. But then my $ goes to the utility companies (Obama did say Energy prices would have NECESSARILY skyrocket) and have less to spend on the essentials like food, gas, clothes, etc.

    This is what I can do that's within my power. I can also influence those who are willing to listen and have the courage to face the truth, but those people are few and far between. But it only takes ONE person. One person can make a difference.

    That's my .02. Oh yeah, there's about 12 inches of snow outside. :)
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    • Posted by 13 years, 2 months ago
      Thank you for your input :) All good stuff and nice to know I'm not the only looking around at people all the time and thinking "What the hell are they thinking??" Living below your means to keep from assisting the siphon is excellent. And I have about 18" of sun here. Want some?
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      • Posted by khalling 13 years, 2 months ago
        7in from the midday sun here in the gulch :)
        how you and your family are doing it is courageous, as long as you're not sacrificing happiness. Actually supporting infrastructure that does not allow to be mobile, makes no sense to me. I know others feel strongly about taking a stand on their land in the US. That would make me less happy in the short term. I wish I had done what you are doing now, sooner. My family would have been fine, maybe better, and I would have had more time to focus on the Renaissance of Reason and preparedness for the Fall, which is really what we're all about in here. wow, no basement. no toys in your house :)
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        • Posted by UncommonSense 13 years, 2 months ago
          Toys? Other than the PS3, (kids & I) my toys are in the safe, locked & loaded. =)
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          • Posted by khalling 13 years, 2 months ago
            I was thinking tubes, bikes, but I get ya :)
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            • Posted by UncommonSense 13 years, 2 months ago
              Yes, I have a few bikes. They do take up some room though. :( My standard of living is rather unconventional by what most people are used to. I can't describe the disgust I felt when Ovomit was making a speech about the collective "sacrafice" ~ completely disrespecting the lifestyle of the U.S military and their families. This is a sacrafice I really don't want to do. I did my time already. I'll bet Ovomit and his minions never have.

              At least it doesn't take long for my teens to do their Saturday chores. :)
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  • Posted by ARGnetworks 13 years, 2 months ago
    I'm finding that I'm somewhere between going Galt and Reardon with my business.

    I'm actually launching a new business May 1 - www.ARGnetworks.com. It is an online TV network with all original programming.

    The game of capitalism looked a certain way as I was growing up. Being married with three young boys, reading AS, turning 40, launching a new business in this economy - it looks different to me now. It looks more like a chess match, which makes me think of Francisco and his efforts to take down his own company.

    In many ways, I still see the world with Reardon's perspective, one where the battle can still be waged. That is certainly true. I remain convinced that we have not yet hit a point of no return.
    In other ways, I understand Francisco's methodology as well as Galt's.

    Like Galt was called to stop the motor of the world, I'm called to build this media alternative and do my part to reshape culture and society using the same tools the rest of the media world employes to deceive.

    I'm not shrugging, at least not by my definition. I'm fighting.

    To address your last paragraph, LetsShrug, I'll tell you who I believe is worth talking to. I generally ask people if they've read AS. That alone can answer a lot. If they haven't, I ask them their thoughts on the place of capitalism in our modern society. The correct answers open the door to further engagement. The wrong answer means I take note to not waste time on someone who has been brainwashed into being a looter.

    The third category includes the masses we will entertain with my shows. Shows which will have messages in favor of Capitalism and the greatness of our country woven throughout. It is through those shows I intend to have a broad impact on society. In the mean time, I'll gladly accept advertising dollars from advertisers whose values do not always line up with mine, although they value the eyeballs I can deliver. This part makes me feel a bit like Francisco. :)

    There is a lot wrong in the world.

    There is a lot right in the world.

    What is right still needs a champion for that cause. I suppose that's why I still feel like I more readily identify with Hank than Galt. So for now, I will Go Reardon until I'm called to Go Galt.

    To our respective success!

    Tony
    $
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    • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
      Go, Tony, Go!!! Just remember that you have to be true to yourself, your shareholders, and to those who your efforts have meaning... and beware the Looters, the Rotters, and those who would use your successes to their advantage at the cost of yours. They are always out there, waiting to pluck your successes from you - in that way, the story of Hank Rearden is ever so true and viable. Good luck, and heady profits, my friend!!!
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  • Posted by khalling 13 years, 2 months ago
    What is shrugging?
    To me, it is the withdrawal of your productive effort from a corrupt country or world.
    Beginning the Process.
    Like you have said, it starts by acknowledging your country or World has become SO corrupt that the normal political process and its exposure in the media (today's term) have become ineffective. As well, the Rule of Law has become subverted. reason is no longer an accepted way to resolve disputes and you are left with force.
    The Process:
    How can you best maximize your happiness? How much does it bother you that you are aiding your enslavers? This is the intellectual part.
    Execute a plan. Goal is to effect happiness, minimize the support given to corruption(this is not just a federal or state or even local govt level-this includes friends, family and neighbors advancing the corruption (unwitting or not)
    As a result, answers for each person or family will be different, depending on resources-this includes skills, comfort zones, pleasure and happiness, philosophical beliefs, importance placed on geographic location, etc. (I am interested in other factors people have that I have not listed).
    Review the plan often and make necessary changes as your knowledge increases. After all-many of us were born in a much freer country, and levels of contentment fluctuate depending on the factors listed above.
    provocative post, LS-looking forward to the discussion in here


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    • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
      To me, it's even deeper than that - if you look at the example of the actual gulch in the book, the strikers had pulled their collective minds from the looter's world, and reformed a world where there was no mooching, but a sense of collective value by value produced. That's probably (to me) the most important aspect - to deny the looters and moochers of what they gain by the theft from Producers, while simultaneously doing what one can to support, increase, and enforce the producer ethos.

      I just went through a very uncomfortable episode where I was in charge of what ended up being a group of looters. Serious. If it came from someone else, then it was theirs to spend - to paraphrase one of their comments "All of the products for all of the people". It was all coded drivel saying, essentially, "We'll steal what we can to scrape the cream off, and give to other moochers what was produced by someone else". I found solace - thank you, Ayn and you fellow Gulchers - in walking awway - no explanation, no reason, no nada. In essence, I went on strike. I will no longer be a participant as a producer in their mooching and thieving ways. Period.

      Even better - I had, years ago (when I was younger and much dumber) paid for a lengthy web service for this group. They sucked it up like syrup. When I walked, they wanted me to renew this service, even tho they knew I was no longer involved with their shenanigans. I was gone. A few weeks back - someone broke into the account and attempted to do a renewal (using my credit card on file, of course), which had been cancelled. I got the notice the transaction was denied... ;)

      Its things like that which make me realize just how *right* Ayn was. What makes me sad now was how much of my life I threw away subscribing to the looters whole crooked and immoral philoosophy, and how a few simple words - written by a woman about the time I was born - changed my life so completely, and gave me the integrity I never had, let alone understood.

      Sometimes the best thing you can do... is to walk away, and let them collapse under their own weight. While I feel sad for their naiveity, I neither empathise or sympathize with their failure to recognize the spiral to annihilation they are participating in, and trying to suck others into.

      In closing, I remember (before I struck that idiocy, and as my integrity was awakening) moochfest quipping to one of their "senior members" one of my favorite lines - "Who is John Galt?". His response was to start with "F*** John Galt" and this nonsensical diatribe on why it was "evil" to be self-responsible and a producer rather than a parasite off the wealth of others... At that point, I realized just how futile (and fatal) that whole group was.

      Have a happy and prosperous Monday!!!
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      • Posted by $ kathywiso 13 years, 2 months ago
        Wow, impressive move.... how long has it been since you read AS ?? or was it the movies ?
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        • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
          I first heard about AS a few years ago, but read AS maybe a couple years back, when I found an old, beat up softcover of it in a 2nd hand store just to see what it was about... little did I know then it would change my entire outlook on life, and way of living! I know, way too long...

          Since then, I've seen both I and II (and have the DVDS, so I can look at them again when I get the urge)... even better, I was also given an almost pristene hardbound edition of AS (from my other 1/2 ;) ) for Christmas last year...

          Anyway (don't laugh) I frequently thumb through it... especially now that we're living in the looter's world Ayn so acutely spoke of... and recognize it as the cancer on society it is... and smile, knowing that, in the Gulch, I am not alone!
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          • Posted by $ kathywiso 13 years, 2 months ago
            Shoot, you've been here longer than me :)
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            • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
              I was here, but then went out to help my friend Ragnar sink a few looters... :) and get my business launched! It's an uphill struggle, but it's a FUN struggle. By God, wouldn't trade it for the world...
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              • Posted by $ kathywiso 13 years, 2 months ago
                Is that the forging business? Sailor.... we are talking about putting a fleet together in here :)
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                • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
                  Anchors Aweigh!!! We've actually expanded our resources... found a new, somewhat related avenue to follow and exploit... seems there's a number of concerned patriots with Curio and Relic "goods" that need help in restoring, refurbishing, and "aligning" their arms... Since I did that as a hobby for years (for myself and friends) it has turned out to be a pretty decent (and yes, fun!) way to gain profit - so much so that I've partitioned off a part of the shop just for this activity.

                  Funny - when you think prosperity, prosperity seeks you out!

                  So, when do we set sail?
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          • Posted by khalling 13 years, 2 months ago
            we do not laugh about flipping through the book, or re-reading it, or re-reading sections, or quoting, or moving on to the other novels, or her non-fiction.
            we laugh about other things though :)
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            • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
              ;) I find myself quoting it a lot. Even better - we got to do a simulated disaster, and I was fortunate enough to pick names for people placing simulated phone calls... It's strange how the businesses and for-profit utilities were all people with names like Danagger, Wyatt, and Rearden... The Government reps were, um, Mouch, Ferris, and Meigs. Strangely, no one caught the inference...

              This sits on a small document posted on the noteboard outside the door of my office... where it always makes me smile;

              "Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark. In the hopeless swamps of the not quite, the not yet, and the not at all, do not let the hero in your soul perish and leave only frustrationfor the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. The world you desire can be won, it exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours."

              Guess who wrote that? ;)
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      • Posted by khalling 13 years, 2 months ago
        what a courageous step you took. did you work for a non-profit? :)
        tell us more stories about the conversations in that organization. Sometimes, it's easy to hone in on code phrases they (looters) use, sometimes we are desensitized to them through conditioning. It's always a good to hear "new" ones, in order to develop quick responses that eviscerate them. who cares about educating the ones who create them as a means of intimidation or guilt-trip, but then sometimes people unwittingly repeat them-like high school aged students hearing things teachers and other classmates say.
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        • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
          Worse... I had volunteered in an artists collective, and had achieved some sort of lead position in it. Think an unknowing Moucher. ;) When the last of the original founders decided to "do something else", I (naively) took it over, thinking it would become something worthy... only to find it was someting relatively worthless. When I then discovered that the other memebrs (to a T) fit the looter philisophy, and nothing I could do could change them, and worse, the old leader decided to wander back and "reorganize his group", well, doing the Wyatt Wave (grins) was pretty doggone easy. (My only regret was there was no oil shale well to light on fire as I left!)

          How it all happened? We had an annual dues of $100 to pay for our expenses during our one big annual event. Not a biggie. Had it budgeted, and all of us came up with a plan, and spent the $$$. Then, during the event, it became a "We need this and that" (mainly those who were otherwise unemployed and somewhat destitute) looking at me to come up with the $$$ to do it. Even tho everyone knew the cupboards were bare. Between the 3 of us with jobs (and money) they looted us for a few thousand before I said, "Oops, sorry, I'm broke". All of the sudden I became a "dictator" and no one liked the way I ran our gig (of course, I was sterling as long as my wallet was open, right?) and worse, they wanted to have a "people's committee" to make all the decisions once my wallet was closed...

          What was the sign on Wyatt's Torch? Oh yeah...

          "I am leaving it as I found it. Take over. It's yours."

          God, I love it! ;)
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          • Posted by khalling 13 years, 2 months ago
            how inconvenient of you to learn how to properly "give back." All those other people-well, there time was valuable.
            I guess they're combing the bleeding hearts for another host today, huh.
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            • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
              I could assume so, but ya know what? Unless I hear something specific about them, I really could care less! Let them feed on their own corpse; soon, they will be what they deserve to be. They worked hard for their loot... --giggles--
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            • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
              Brother, you got THAT so right! Then again, when I got involved, I was blindly following my "alturistic, neo-socialist collectivist people's democratically communal based..." (Pardon me while I lose my lunch...)

              Seriously - I was hoodwinked into buying in - hook, like, and stinker - to that whole claptrap of nonsense for a while. I can't claim divine intervention, but if it wasn't some divine intervention that put a certain book in my hands and changed my life, I am absolutely certain that I would be no better off than that of Jim Taggart (or Robert Stadler) at the end of the novel.

              Know what? I thank those looters for waking me up, for giving me a real-life example of what we all know as a truism... for giving me a benchmark, and a very VIVID lesson as to what happens when you buy into said claptrap.
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                • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
                  It is the color of shame, degradation, and embarassment - sadly, those types are (as I found out with my experience) quite color blind.

                  There are those who just wouldn't understand why you did what you did... yet, it was, indeed, the only right and proper thing *to* do. Those who don't understand... are deserving of all they reap.

                  And personally... I salute you for what you did, and thank you.

                  Have a prosperous rest of your week!
                  Susanne
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      • Posted by overmanwarrior 13 years, 2 months ago
        Nice, you are in the right place here. Many of us tell similar stories. Only in the "official gulch."

        Seriously, its a state of mind more than a web site or any physical location. And you are there.
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    • Posted by 13 years, 2 months ago
      Excellent response kh. In particular I appreciate the "happiness" aspect of planning that you have suggested. After all that IS what it's all about...and we have the natural and unalienable right to pursue it, along with life and liberty. Maybe that, in itself, IS the real meaning of shrugging. :) The pursuit, uninfringed.
      Damn...I forgot to mention the part about being prepared for the worst in my post.
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  • Posted by ogr8bearded1 13 years, 2 months ago
    khalling asked me to post some answers over here she had from my introduction so I'll try and answer them.

    I guess you could call it underachieving or laziness on my part. In school I quickly realised I could obtain a C with no effort at all and chose to use my time in areas that interested me instead of buckling down and studying. Each year after testing my Mother would tell me how the teachers would come to her and exclaim, "Do you know how smart your son is?" and "What are we doing wrong?"

    As for how underachieving is like going Galt, I would say you could look to Dr. Hugh Akston working as a cook in a diner. The work he was doing to support himself is far below his abilities.

    I have a self taught understanding of the law, an ability to be conscious of my surroundings (you may or may not be surprised how few are), an understanding of accounting and budgeting and a quick ability to ascertain important information from lengthy documents or writings. That C in school I was talking about usually came from F's in homework and A's on tests for that reason.

    I have started to grow my own vegetables and learning which ones do best with the soil I have. Last year I started raising chickens and at this moment have hatched some chicks from eggs they laid and another batch in the incubator. Later I will be selling eggs and older laying hens as well as surplus vegetables.

    What monies I have no immediate need for, I buy silver to hedge against inflation or to use and haggle a price down. I don't consider when I buy or sell something for old silver coins a specie payment, only that I negotiated a lower price. They are still US currency, aren't they?

    I'm not a miner of gold but what would be called a recreational prospector. I did camp out one summer for 3 months in a National Forest and came back with a little gold. I could have made a lot more working any minimum wage job for the same amount of hours, but shoveling and shifting through the dirt was much more fun. If I was allowed to use better equipment than a shovel, pan and sluice box I'm sure I could have gotten a lot more. I did join the GPAA for a few years but that is as far as I went.

    I don't see the choosing of the lesser evil to be worthwhile in politics. Also, my State and area are solidly 'RED' so I have no fear my vote would change the outcome. I did almost consider voting for Ron Paul the last election, but by the time the vote gets to Alabama the writing is usually on the wall of who will win a nomination.

    The movies so far have been great and I'm anxiously awaiting the third one. I enjoyed them so much I insisted my Father watch them also. He said, "These movies should be shown to every child in school."

    Hope this has helped answer your questions khalling, if you have any others feel free to ask, as well as anyone else who has a question.
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    • Posted by khalling 13 years, 2 months ago
      Thanks for sharing. LetsShrug has a way of getting people to draw out their experiences, and often, this is a tight lipped group. We can benefit from each others strategies and life experiences at times.
      I'm laughing about your experience as a student. EXACTLY like my son's. He started in an engineering program in college which would have given him a BS in Innovation (mix of EE and this new angle of tech transfer-students learn how to write business plans, apply for grants (ugh) and basically get As for putting together and building a business concept by graduation). Problem is -engineering programs are difficult and hard to get an undergrad in 4 years. Add to that, these other elements, which I find fantastic, btw, and which was a part of BAs as well. But the new thing in college, is homework, homework. When I went to college, you mostly performed for a grade through midterm, final and occasional projects. NOW, it's like glorified high school. homework is graded. My son, who wanted to take the engineering exams and quickly get to the entrepreneurial business building thought he could take a test, ace it and ignore homework. Fail. He was paying for the college, so-he left. He has his own business, although it is not engineering in nature, he still studies on his own. question: did he fail college or did college fail him? I am a big believer in consumer /payer's needs should be met for a reasonable price. But, public education/university feels differently. Ultimately blowing away tests should be the point for maintaining standards.
      All of this, to say, I do not see your school performance as underachieving. I see the schools let you, as a student, down. I agree, that there must be some standard of achievement-tests. Homework? Bull.
      You also apply underachieving to pleasure/work. One defines the terms for happiness(see my above post) first. The "winner" is not defined by empire, most money, power, influence. Different for each. Your examples prove that you are self sufficient and enjoy your efforts. juxtapose that to someone who wants to create their art(just an example not picking on artists) but the time and effort it requires to fulfill goals, takes away from things like paying for food and shelter, saving for emergencies, fewer comforts that decrease overall happiness if prioritized over the long time.
      Akston did what he did for a purpose-larger goal. His choices were deliberate. Underachiever? Not in the least. I guess as far as the voting, you're using game theory. I cannot fault that, it is a philosophical choice. I do ask, why maintain a military force if we do not exercise our right to vote? There needs to be a compelling reason to avoid using one of the most powerful tools we have as citizens in a free country.
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  • Posted by micabe2006 13 years, 2 months ago
    The best way I see "shrugging" is paying the least amount in taxes to the federal and state governments. Get as many tax write-offs as you can. I know we will always be paying taxes short of cutting off everything in the world. But just pay the least amount as possible. The government is the biggest moocher as it takes taxes out of our working paychecks & gives it to people who don't work. Setup up a system that gets you the most write-offs and fund the government the least amount as possible. Also come next election, vote for people who want government budget reform. take control of the US senate (if you live here in the US) then we may have a chance to pass a good/decent budget without obama and his crazy ObamaCare and his ultimate plan to run the country into the ground and turn us into a 3rd world country. The government is the issue, so cutting their funding off and starving the big government parasite will help and you can "shrug" without compromising to musch of your personal livelihood.
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    • Posted by khalling 13 years, 2 months ago
      micabe, someone posted a great post in here about all the hidden taxes one pays on everything from property taxes to utilities to gas. As a strategy, it's excellent striking!
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    • Posted by 13 years, 2 months ago
      I wish I still believed that there will be another election. :( (Even if there is...we still have the problem with being out numbered by Moochers who vote for their entitlements...)
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  • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 13 years, 2 months ago
    We have discussed alternatives to living in CT, and have come across a few. Our obstacles at this point are the prospect of selling a house in this area, and also uprooting our kids who have really grown up here. My husband is in a postion in his career where he can command a very good salary, but it's makes us sick to see what a HUGE chunk of that gets siphoned off for the benefit of moochers. It makes me sick. But we have to find a place where his work ethic meshes with a prospective employers. He has a very low tolerance for stupidity and laziness when it comes to business ethics. I can do what I do anywhere, so for me I'm most concerned with the education that would be offered in a place we might choose to live. As far as people we would miss, well we have friends we've known for years, and we are all over the country. The ones we feel are important in our lives are still there. We have shed those with whom there are great divides in thinking, politically, ethically, etc. There are a few who share our pain over what we see happening in the country, and we try in our small way to to change that. It's sadly an uphill battle because so much of the populace believes the shit being spread by the liberal govt and its minions in the media. I guess I could say we have shrugged those with whom there is no common ground in logical thought, and unfortunately it has included family. But I'd rather not have someone like that in my children's lives, clouding reality.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 13 years, 2 months ago
    Begrudgingly, against my nature, I am withholding my best efforts. I paid off my equipment, and shrank my operation to form my own little gulch. I saved the producers only, disassociated myself from all looters and moochers. I will only consider looking for more work if I find an irreplaceable worthy producer. I have a lot of idle machines… I long for the day, when it is profitable to train new people, power up all the equipment and expand my operation… I would be more concerned but my competitors are struggling, while I am coasting. It no longer pays to knock yourself out, when the looters just find more ways to take. Don’t keep too much money in the bank. Buy gold, or guns, or anything that you think will hold its value. I parted with unnecessary vehicles and items requiring license fees and taxes. Hunt, fish, (unavoidable licenses) garden, freeze, can, buy used, repair, keep vehicles looking good years after being paid off and generally find ways to legally avoid feeding the behemoth. All of these kinds of actions contribute to the declining economy which is contrary to our true desire, to produce in a thriving economy… but at what price? Diminished returns feeding the increasing mass of thankless looters? No thanks…
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  • Posted by PSULillis 13 years, 2 months ago
    Many of you mention that election night put you in a funk. I too was in a funk but there was another event in my life that sparked something inside me that wasn't there before. I had my first child in December. It was the most amazing thing I've ever been a part of. When I look into her eyes and see that little face it brings so much joy to me. Unfortunately, a few weeks after she was born I was reading my typical news feeds and it dawned on me...her "fair share" of the national debt is approximately $40,000! I can't get my head around how this is "fair". Every dollar the gov't spends that it doesn't have is the equivilent of taxing future generations, only they don't get a vote in the whole deal! I wrote to the ACLU (I know, the most liberal org ever, but I didn't know what other group I could turn to) to see if they would be interested in filing a lawsuit against the Federal Gov't for taxation without representation. I haven't heard back. I guess this really sin't so much shrugging as fighting back.
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    • Posted by khalling 13 years, 2 months ago
      are you part of your local tea party? I also think organizations such as Americans For Prosperity do lots in the trenches. You will now be part of neighborhood families, playgroups, babysitting coops, etc. Lots of captive listeners with babies and toddlers who need to wake up. Start there! Congrats on your baby girl!
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      • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
        That is a great comment, KH... After a few years of beiong isled to the flase promises and heartfelt lies of the party of rotters and looters, I returned to my senses, and returned to the LP. Some say to me... "You wasted your vote"... I say, no, my vote COUNTED, and if you believed your vote counted, you wouldn't vote for the worse of 2 evils, but the better of all choices.

        Like Khalling said, look at your local Tea Party... Look at the LP... A4P is an AWESOME org, BTW... and become informed, so you can spread the wrd, and hopefully save us from the 2 party black hole fiasco we finds ourselves in... Good luck!!!
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  • Posted by LionelHutz 13 years, 2 months ago
    I easily could start a business with my skillset. I won't do it. It would only widen the straw that's being used to suck the life out of me.

    I won't buy anything new inside my own state if I can help it. It's all mail order and free shipping option through out-of-state companies.

    If I have to get something quick, I go local through CraigsList.

    I convert my cash to bullion - not because I expect to make money, but to keep them from stealing from me through inflation.

    I intend later this year to take an unpaid leave of absence for the sole reason of denying the government that tax money they thought they were going to get by putting the social security tax back to 6.2%. I have drawn a line in the sand. They will get no tax dollars beyond that line, and if it means I produce less, so be it.

    I record all sales and misc taxes paid and make efforts to eliminate the top sources. Haven't quite figured out how to reduce my #1 (Diesel). But my #2 (Cell phone) is being radically reduced with a move to Skype.

    I'm leaving my state for one that doesn't have an income tax.

    The 401K will be out of their reach once I arrive at the new state. The money is coming out and going to bullion.

    The Cyprus incident has me thinking that I might want to just have my company mail me my check, and I'll get it cashed at Walmart.
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  • Posted by overmanwarrior 13 years, 2 months ago
    I am with you. After the election I was in a funk where I was really ready to run off into the mountains and say "forget it." Instead, I bought a couple of new computers for my wife and I and we became involved in an online mmo game for a couple of months.

    http://overmanwarrior.wordpress.com/2012...

    That's why I didn't say much here for a while. We played that game for many hours which felt like another world. In it, there was a freedom that just isn't there in real life, which is pretty sad when you think about it. I found it a very interesting experience that was refreshing. I can see why so many kids get into those games. You get to keep what you earn, because there are no taxes in that particular MMO environment and you can go where you want anytime you want to and do pretty much whatever when you get there.

    It is of course a simulated reality, but I went there for the freedom and the vacation from the world for a couple of months. And it did recharge my batteries. But I was certainly shrugging!

    http://overmanwarrior.wordpress.com/2013...
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    • Posted by $ kathywiso 13 years, 2 months ago
      Wow, I texted one of my best customers, military group, that my place was officially for sale...at midnight, election night.... I was so disgusted. Going Galt is hard when you have worked your whole life to accomplish something, but probably is the best thing to do. Still contemplating the right move, but know it will be after this season...the question is what to do afterward..there is no Galt's Gulch to go to that is hidden from the rest of the world. Take a menial job that provides health care and coast, enjoying the rest of your days, but then what are our children left with ????
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      • Posted by 13 years, 2 months ago
        I was just thinking that earlier today....what will our kids' lives be like? We might be able to squeak by til we die without having to be subjects for looting, but it won't be so easy (not that it's easy) for them to accomplish. The gov has it's tentacles in EVERYthing and it's getting worse by the second. This next generation is so entitled and superficial, and that alone is frightening without all the other hurdles to overcome. I seriously fear for their futures.
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        • Posted by $ kathywiso 13 years, 2 months ago
          Teach them a skill or skills that can be used in tough times and teach them history as we know it.. then send them on their way to discover the world with the principles of capitalism...
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          • Posted by 13 years, 2 months ago
            I'm tryin' I'm tryin'! :)
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            • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
              I've felt that we can build the Gulch, and have it hidden in plain sight... while those in AS needed to be hidden from the physical world, we can build, prosper, and thrive while the rest of the world goes on around us, blissfully and blindly unaware of this bastion that grows around them. Seriously - You don't need a resource rich valley in Colorado to rebuild society (tho yes, it might help!) but you can do what you can to bring the valley to the rest of the world, while watching the looters succumb to their own failed plots.
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              • Posted by 13 years, 2 months ago
                We're thinking of buying the ghettos of Detroit...noone would look there. (The outside of the ramshackled houses would remain while the insides would be new and modern... hiding in plain site!) Okay, we're not REALLY thinking about that, but it was brought up before. :)
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        • Posted by khalling 13 years, 2 months ago
          they will have to figure it out. I am very sad that their future is likely to be a hard struggle.
          there has to be an intellectual agreement across the country that stealing from others is not OK just because the majority votes for it.
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    • Posted by 13 years, 2 months ago
      I remember wondering where the heck you had gone after the election, but I too was in a major funk and couldn't see straight for a while. It was a life changer for me, a huge wake up call that I'm still recovering from. I felt like I fell off a cliff. I started reorganizing our future the minutes after the election was called (and after my husband yelled, "The vampire has been invited into the house...AGAIN!!!" Sigh.) Planning and being prepared and producing happiness is what we are left with...until the masses awaken....IF they are even capable of that. I always enjoy your posts and comments Overman :) Keep up the good fight!
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      • Posted by overmanwarrior 13 years, 2 months ago
        That election meant that the economy would continue to struggle, that we'd have to endure Obamacare, and four more years of a slide torward the fictional reality of Atlas. If Romney had won, I think at least finances would have been solved somewhat. There would still be a moral crises, but it would have been digestable. What we all had to deal with was how much of that we wanted to shoulder. For me, it's not much.

        A lot of that stuff I produce I do for those who are just now coming to the place in their minds where many of us were two and three years ago. Putting the info up for free makes it easy for them to learn what they need to do. At the Overmanwarrior Wisdom site, even though my production is free to the public, it is still cheaper than making it a "for profit" enterprise where the government sticks their nose in my business. If people learn something and start asking questions, I will profit down the road by having a society that I can deal with. But right now, it's the money speech. People of little value do not understand money. They think more of it means more for them. That's how the Fed gets them, and why they can print money like there is no tomorrow. Mankind has lost its value for itself, which is reflected in the money.
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  • Posted by 13 years, 2 months ago
    I see a common thread here...election night. What a kick in the thinker. (Except kh, who's always ahead of the game.)
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    • Posted by khalling 13 years, 2 months ago
      All during the day we just felt surreal. It was so shocking. I'm sure, the false peace currently is going to play out with devastating consequences.
      How could someone vote for someone who hates the history of our country.?? It made our decision to leave for good much easier, however, because it killed my hope.
      Election showed just how traitorous the so-called "establishment republicans" really are. Electability. Electability. We can go through posts in here before the election, where Gulchers were saying that. Now, some will say viable third party. I say Fall of Rome
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      • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 13 years, 2 months ago
        That is exactly the analogy my husband has given to our kids, as far back as 7, 8 years ago. (I'm sure it is longer ago than that, actually). We have striven to educate our kids to keep their eyes open, to read everything they can get their hands on, and to stay informed.
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    • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 13 years, 2 months ago
      I wanted to jump off the roof election night. We had friends staying here because they were still without power at their house in NY from the hurricane. Our friend Keith was swearing up a blue streak! Justifiably. His wife is the woman from Iraq, and she was visibly shaken. She said this is how it starts, the oppression, over regulation by an over bearing government. It was the most depressing night of my life, other than when my mom and, later, my stepmom died.
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      • Posted by $ Susanne 13 years, 2 months ago
        It woke me up to how disfunctional and brainwashed the Sheeple of America are. After seeing the "Grope and Derange" of the first 4 years, and having huge disapproval ratings, to vote for another 4? Maybe the sheeple *want* to bring about the collapse...
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        • Posted by 13 years, 2 months ago
          They aren't smart enough to realize that America even COULD collapse. They know nothing different than their own existence up to today's date... It's been an easy ride... and when you couple that with not knowing anything about history (and/or patterns of events), then it's no wonder they can't conceive of disaster, or starvation....and if they do know something about history it is easily shrugged off with an "Oh, that can't happen here!" Which makes them a zero.
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