Children

Posted by rtsmith67 9 years, 7 months ago to Philosophy
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Of all the things that Ayn Rand and the Rand Institute have produced over the years, there is one thing that I believe has been seriously overlooked and something that is most essential: Guidance on how to rear children, especially girls, in the ideas of Objectivism. I would dearly love to find something, anything, to help me in Raising Dagney.


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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 7 months ago
    And I think it would be wonderful if you had not included "especially girls" in your comment/question.

    I have a step-grandson who is extremely bright (but, imnsho,) who is being raised by rather (-to-extremely) liberal parents, to my dismay.

    Again, he's bright and articulate and at 14, still amazingly open-minded to intellectual discussions, and enjoys my company and probing questions. He describes himself as a 'sponge for ideas.'

    Yesterday at lunch, we got into a discussion of Critical Thinking, Root Cause Analysis and the like, starting with "why are there red-light cameras at intersections?"

    About 45 minutes later, the topics under discussion had ranged from Education to ISIS to political power and greed and Hallowe'en candy and more. All I had to do was to keep asking him "Well, why is THAT the case? What caused THAT?"

    Most 'adult humans' persist in such a probing conversation for no more than two or three "Why?"s... He counted something like 14 or so 'levels of why' that we'd explored, starting with a subject as focused as "Why are there red-light cameras at intersections."

    I wanted him to realize that the Answer to the First Why is NOT the True Root Cause of the Problem, although I believe most people stop at that level and propose and try to implement "Solutions" based on that First Level, and therein lie most of the recurring and most recalcitrant "problems" people complain about today.

    He actually enjoyed the conversation and looks forward to our next 'probing' discussion.

    I love that kid! Unfortunately, in my experience, he's also extremely rare.

    How do we create and encourage more 'children' (of all flavors) to think like that...?
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  • Posted by barwick11 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Danny Taggart is a fictional character. Your children are not. The same principles Dr Dobson teaches are the same principles that gave us Thomas Edison, etc.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Uh....I am very familiar with James Dobson and Focus on the Family and he would NEVER advocate or encourage the raising of a Dagney Taggert. Faith and Reason are polar opposites.
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  • Posted by $ Maree 9 years, 7 months ago
    Rts i also agree with snezzy and Susanne. I had to sell my horse to go to uni.
    Re sport - i am biased here and no idea if you have Orienteering nearby - it is an excellent competitive sport or just recreation for all ages. The teens in my club are 100'/. Amazing young people. Several are home schooled. And orienteering is so not a team sport. My decisions and my results in a race are all mine.
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  • Posted by $ winterwind 9 years, 7 months ago
    Also, along with much of the good advice here, allow her to be feminine when and if she likes. Do not discourage an interest in jewelry, clothes and makeup just because you [correctly] want to raise a strong person. One of the things I despise about the early Feminist movement was the "of course you don't want to wear a pretty dress" movement.
    Etiquette is important for males and females to learn - it is the science of making other people comfortable.
    She should know age- and size-appropriate self defense when she starts to walk. A friend's daughter began to shoot [on Dad's lap, with Dad's finger over her finger on the trigger] at 2 1/2.
    Respect her, and earn her respect.

    There is so much to say here, maybe a book needs writing. hmmmm.....I already know who I want to write the first chapter - the father who took his daughter shooting.
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  • Posted by $ winterwind 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It probably wasn't necessarily horsemanship; it was more likely to be being allowed to do something she knew how to do and not being questioned about it.
    Good Job, either way!
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Fortunately, I live in Indiana where we have opted out of Common Core. Unfortunately, my daughter live with her mother in Illinois which is a veritable wasteland of education.
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  • Posted by H6163741 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not to mention communism, altruism and how to make your point with emotion rather than logic. Thank you Common Core....
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  • Posted by H6163741 9 years, 7 months ago
    Might I add: an all-girls private school.... With a STEM program....
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 7 months ago
    "Don't believe what people say...believe what they DO."
    Read Rand. Think for yourself.
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  • Posted by mckenziecalhoun 9 years, 7 months ago
    Respond here.
    Professional teacher, raised my own daughter accordingly and helped a lot of parents appreciate it even if I never named it such.

    If enough people respond, perhaps we'll have to set up a Skype Meeting or something of the sort, if that's okay with the forum moderators. Whatever is ethical and according to the rules of the forum (which I agreed to).
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  • Posted by VictorianMedievalist 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Absolutely! The best thing you can do for your child is to NOT let them go to public school. Send them to a private school or home school them. That way you can have at least some control over what they are taught even when they aren't with you.
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  • Posted by Bobhummel 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Horsemanship and leadership go hand in hand together. Both my children learned the fundamentals of person responsibility, ethics, patience and leadership through developing horsemanship skills in the U S Pony Club programs at a very early age.
    Sneezy is right on here.
    Cheers
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Indeed. A 'family and children' sounds like a good description of hell for me. I cannot personally understand who would want that...but I acknowledge that (statistically) approx 7 billion people our of 7 billion people would agree with you.

    There are so many forces pushing people towards having children and family (including biology) that I really don't think that you need worry that daughters taught independence will fail to have the family concept included in their potential world view.

    Jan
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My caution is in concluding that material accomplishment is equivalent to happiness. It is the rare person indeed who (on their deathbed) laments that they didn't spend enough time at the office. Charles Dickens makes this point eloquently with Ebenezer Scrooge in "A Christmas Carol" and I think it worth the cautionary tale.

    There is no amount of time at the office that would be worth seeing my child's first smile, hearing their first word, seeing their first steps. The magic of such is something only experience can describe. But again, to each their own.
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  • Posted by desimarie23 9 years, 7 months ago
    I agree 100% with Susanne's advice.

    My mother tried to raise me to be a housewife. My dream was to be a firefighter and her response was "girls don't do that, that's a man's job." Fortunately, I had a mind of my own from the start...something my father supported from day one. My father also pushed me to work for what I wanted, and to take responsibility for my actions. If I failed at something, he asked me how I could do it better next time. He was not only teaching me to rely on my intuitions and think for myself, he instilled confidence in me that I would not have gained from my mother's way of thinking.

    I don't have children yet, I am too focused on my career as a firefighter, but I hope to raise my children how my father raised me...self-reliant, brave, and strong-willed.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Blarman -

    There was once a distributor of our product in Texas, whom I had flown out to give a hand with demoing a big client. He was a nice guy, and we got along well. We were walking out of a large facility, where we had demoed and he stopped and said, "You have told me about how much you enjoy your work at your company. I know this may be against my best interest but: Don't forget about having a life and family. You don't want to miss the best part of being alive." I replied that I have never wanted children and that having an adventuresome and productive life WAS what I want to do with my time.

    I have seen many women 'bullied' into having children and a family by their relatives (who are sure they 'know what is best' for the girl). All you have to do is to teach your children to think for themselves. If _they_ decide that they want to have children...eh, they are capable of thinking this up for themselves.

    I still think well of that distributor for giving a damn about someone as a person rather than as a business-unit, though. He does not know it, but he gets some special perks sometimes.

    Jan (relatives bounced on this conditioning!)
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 7 months ago
    I think that Ayn Rand her self was as good a roll model as one could find for girls to follow; boys too I might add.
    so if you want to know the best way to educate your child introduce them as early in life as possible to Objectivism. Or you could write to L. Peikoff and ask how he raised his daughter. all of the information is out there.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree with individual activities. Girls can tend to "group" socially, so some time spent pursuing an individual project or passion is important. My kids were into tennis and my daughter was also into dance. There's alot of personal growth and achievement in team sports, but there's also a ton of compromise. There needs to be some balance to that, so personal sacrifices aren't internalized as just the way things are. I do not want to dump on team sports, but group think and taking one for the team think pervades the family attitudes and the way coaches then teach their courses in school and the way tehy want you to vote for bond issues and then a mayor-do it for the city. I think I am a little biased here in my thinking...maybe someone can give me the Objectivist perspective on child development through team sports. lol
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 9 years, 7 months ago
    Start early, let the girl know she has choices, but also responsibilities. Horse ownership is fantastic, from feeding, to cleaning stalls to grooming, all these teach responsibility. Riding is a thing girls are equal at, and it is not about competitions, but the girl out on her horse, in control of the horse, thinking on her own, and dreaming. She is her own person.
    Give "Anthem" as early as reading ability and understanding allows. It will be before "Atlas Shrugged", but will open the door to that thought process. Include her in meal time discussions of news or politics or, as my dad did, running a business. She will pick up on economics early that way. When I used to ask for help, my dad used to ask, "Can you handle it", and I would say "yes" - at which point he would tell me to do it. In schools, girls are taught to seek group think, peer approval in handling everything. Let her know she is an individual and does not need 20 people to change a light bulb.
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  • Posted by $ Snezzy 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, but horsemanship goes far beyond other sports. There is a tremendous amount of technical material to learn, and even the most casual rider has the responsibility of caring properly for a half-ton animal that could kill her.

    Some people say, "Sport? You just sit there." Good riders (internally seething at that remark) try to remain composed and say, "Fine. You get on my horse and do what I just did."

    If we ever encounter alien species visiting from the planet Beetle Juice, I'd select a horseman to be the first to try to communicate with them.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 9 years, 7 months ago
    Rand did not overlook children completely. Consider:

    1. The "fishwife" at the grocery store, who has two strapping young sons who exude more self-confidence than Dagny had seen from most adults in the outside world.

    2. Henry Rearden's reflection on the kind of God-awful educational system that produced a Wet Nurse. And set him up to get himself killed on the one occasion he decided to take a moral stand.
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  • Posted by skidance 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would like to add that an emphasis should be placed on individual sports, especially those involving balance: Horseback riding (great suggestion, Snezzy), ice skating, yoga, martial arts, gymnastics, skiing, etc. With such activities, one learns from one's mistakes; what did I do to cause that fall? How can I prevent doing it again? Thus individual responsibility and self-reflection, as well as the principle of cause and effect.
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