I tried to persuade the newly formed high school council twenty plus years ago here in Sedona (for the new high school) to implement a vocational program. It never came into being. The only thing the high school had was an auto shop program for 2 years. Now, due to endowments to the Sedona Oakcreek School District the High School has become a performing arts school which it's graduates are totally useless to a capitalist country. So, I definitely agree that American Industry will have to take over educating the children to be productive members of society.

This is part of the business plan, Eudaimonia. The cost of all the buildings must be covered somehow. We require students to live in the dorms for 2 years, but frankly the 2nd year dorms are so good that if I were single, I might want to live there.

It is true at my university, but then we are different at FIT in many ways. We do advertise like that, too, but we back it up.

Florida Tech does market itself as having the highest return on investment of any university in the Southeast. This is true despite our high tuition. We advertise our job placement percentages and starting and mid-career salaries quite openly.

Great analogy!

Apprenticeships served a role greater than work related education. They also functioned as a means to steadily integrate growing minds into adult society. Today we keep them isolated then drop them into the wild, and wonder why they don't seem to do well.

Colleges are becoming nothing more that places to continue the brainwashing which began in public K-12 schools. They do not educate, the indoctrinate. Increasingly, they will be teaching what the high schools failed to teach, thus making it necessary for more kids to go to college to get high school level education.
I have a degree, but have worked in fields without it. I got mine for my own interest. My husband to one to move up the corp. hadder. Our daughter got two under graduate degrees, and a Masters, none of which she used. She is now getting an MBA, which may actually apply to the job , which she already has.
Colleges are liberal incubators, overpriced, and just delay the growing up process.

Teach the kids to think for themselves and question everything. All the knowledge in the world is at their fingertips.

"The sales pitch is explicit: a college degree will earn you x amount over your career above someone who does not get a college education."

I have never heard that statement made by any University or College ever. What I have heard is that having a degree increases a persons earning potential - this is mostly true. I have hired many people without degree's based solely on experience. I know first hand that a degree, more often than not, warranted or not, is the door opener and the difference between getting and not getting a job in many companies. But I know that I was not the norm in my hiring practices.

As for 60% of employers saying that college graduates are not coming to them with basic skills...don't hire them. If enough of these people do not get jobs because of their lack of proper education (or could it be that they are padding their GPAs with elective courses that are effortless and have no real bearing on their degree or development?) then things will slowly change.

As long as the claims made by college are general and non-specific I can't really see fraud. The "kid" could have blown $55K to go to a college and party for 4 years only to slip by in getting his degree.

Good to hear from you XenokRoy.
Yes! The collectivist nature of it all.
Regards,
O.A.

Hello AJAShinoff,

An excellent article.

I have trained many people to work in my high tech machine shop. The jobs pay double the average prevailing wage. Many have had degrees many have not. Whether they had or did not have a degree has never been the determining factor to their success. Apprenticeship programs and on the job training for a motivated individual work well. Showing up on time ready to work with a good attitude is most of the battle. If you are of average intelligence and willing to make the effort you can succeed. Frankly, some of the best workers were ex-military with little to no experience in the field, but they had the right attitude and work ethic.

We will always need people to do jobs that do not require a college degree. Will we suddenly run out of need to have houses built, pipes unclogged, ditches dug, crops planted/ harvested, floors swept, garbage picked up, fences painted, etc.? Is a degree required for these jobs/ trades?

Far too many jobs with dignity and even good pay are going undone by Americans and we are told they won't do them and we must provide more immigrants. Nonsense. The more immigrants we have that take those jobs the more depressed the wages remain.

For those who can afford it, have the aptitude and wish to enter specific fields it is necessary, but to imagine or promote the notion that it is the only option is counterproductive. Our society has too many that won't take the first steps on a ladder and work their way up in a business because they have a degree and an attitude that the offerings are beneath them... saddled with the debt and the compounded problem of the tuition increases due to such demand there is a dismal financial future for many.

I lament the loss of so many trade school opportunities and people wiling to get their hands dirty. The loss of manufacturing is compounding the economic turmoil in this nation and this is part of the problem.
Respectfully,
O.A.

I liked the definition in the article, “a college degree is a thing that we tell our kids to buy with money they don’t have, in hopes that it will help them make money they might earn, which will give them the ability to pay back the money they spent in order to make the money they’re paying it back with.”

I just got back from my Vietnam Artillery Unit Reunion in Branson MO. We had a guest speaker there, a young lady, that talked about her school, how the students graduate there with a four year degree completely free of debt. The school is only about 1400 students and it refuses any federal or state money. Apparently it is funded by donations from alumni, and the requirement that the students must all work to pay their own way as they go. She even mentioned that one of her jobs was to milk cows. It is a liberal arts school and their main goal seems to teach responsibility and patriotism amongst other necessary traits to enjoy this new world. They also have a Patriotic Education Travel Program that pairs students with Veterans, taking them back to the battlefields where they fought. The goal, “To encourage an understanding of American heritage, civic responsibilities, love of country, and willingness to defend it.” Needless to say she definitely got my attention.

I didn’t finish college myself, thank you Vietnam, but did go back and take the courses I felt I needed to catch up on, as electronics evolved from vacuum tubes to solid state while I was calculating firing data to send high explosive steel projectiles to the enemy. It’s ironic how the military did make good use of the more than average mathematics I had even from high school. I’ve always just loved math and couldn’t seem to get enough. After Vietnam I went back to a junior college that had courses to update my electronics. I was no longer pushing for a degree, taking all that extra stuff, but for the knowledge I’d actually need to compete and get into something of interest to me.

That young lady’s school I mentioned above made a lot of sense to me. It seems it might be doing more of educating these people in life skills that they can put to use to become better citizens. I kept thinking about why this kind of school wasn’t being developed all over the country. Fergusson MO could have one to teach their young adults how to make a living without strong arming little people at quick stop stores to get stuff for free, etc. Anyway, I’m, going to check them out a little more, I think it’s great concept. They call it “HARD WORK U. Where Students… Don’t Pay Tuition . Work for an Education . Graduate Without Debt . Develop Character . Value God and Country” This is not (by me) intended to be a commercial.

College of the Ozarks: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&...

as an example, environmentalists have been able to push all sorts of extreme agendas through lawsuit, where society was not in agreement.
The sales pitch is explicit: a college degree will earn you x amount over your career above someone who does not get a college education. That's a promise. Is it truthful? Someone "investing" 55k for x has a right to expect x product or service. Look at any college brochure. They promise an excellent education. Why should the entire burden be on the person buying, to most in the middle class, the second most expensive "asset" of their life? Universities have a responsibility to live up to what they're selling. I agree it is the student's responsibility to think long and hard about their life decisions. A teacher will pay the same for their 4 year degree as an accountant. One will likely earn significantly more over their career. There are always opportunity costs. I posted an article on one of the other posts showing that now over 60% of employers responding to a survey list basic skills that college graduates are not graduating with. If a college cannot deliver basic communication skills, critical thinking, WRITING skills-what the heck are they learning? Even community organizers need to be able to do these things

Yup. They're called internships and apprenticeships, and used to be the primary path to employment up until the education revolution in the 1950's and 1960's.

Nice article and I completely agree. We need more internships and fewer "educated" idiots.

The increasing irrelevancy of the government education industrial complex run government school systems to parents, employers, even post secondary education officials.

The issue is a cultural issue, not an education issue. At its heart is the fact that we feel that all people must have a cookie cutter way to success. That the result can be the same for all and the path to get there can be the same for all. Such collectivist ideals are false. They have always been so. Only a shift to the value of the individual, that individuals choices and the results of those choices as a value system will we have an education system, and work system that works again.

As long as we wish to have the collective be the all important thing we will simply fail better than we did before. Individuality and an acceptance of it from a cultural level will have to happen before education will work properly again.

There are too many variables to explain why that is.

The privatization of schools. This is something I can support.

I am a financial advisor and the impact of trying to pay for college is real. As a parent who does not want to see their child laced with debt the decision often come to funding college or funding their retirement. Altruism sets in for most and the sacrifice their own future for their children. The other issue is that rarely do the colleges sit down with the student and do a payback analysis so the child can see the payments they are subjecting themselves to. Many do not realize unlike years ago when bankruptcy would eliminate college debt today this debt cannot be forgiven. For many it follows them past retirement. In fact if they cannot pay the government will garnish their social security payment if payment is not received. Suddenly the American dream turns into the American nightmare and all those who wanted to work and make something of themselves and contribute to society find themselves locked in chains they can never escape.

5$, I work in the utility industry and we are always looking for quality workers. A lot of jobs, such as Electrical Journeyman, are not jobs you just walk into. They require extensive training, both in the classroom and On-The-Job, to achieve that level. Fortunately, most companies offer that training. My company hires in young men and ladies into a position called Helper. From there, if you prove yourself, you get put into an Apprenticeship program. This is a 4 year program that goes through both the required classroom and OJT programs, working alongside qualified and licensed Electrical Journeymen and Working Foremen. It is an excellent program but it takes time and effort, we are a small utility and our program only graduates 4 or 6 people every 3 or 4 years. They do not run the program every year because of costs but mostly due to lack of qualified individuals. A lot of companies run programs like this but they are underutilized.

At some point employers, particularly for scientific/engineering positions, are going to have to create their own post secondary education institutions and perhaps even K-12 institutions to produce the needed employees.

The one statistic that says it all: most college graduates never find a job in their majors.

Fivedollargold has a friend who always exceeds sales' goals working in a retail store. As with the example cited in this blog, she gets passed over for EVERY promotion, including head cashier. Boycott college without a plan and you will end up like her--working two part time jobs with few benefits for $9.25 an hour. Thanks to Obamacare full time jobs are less and less available.

Here's the flip side. A local plumbing firm is renting billboards BEGGING for people with no previous experience to come work for them. FREE TRAINING. What does this tell you about our modern work ethic, and in particular, the younger generation?

Another fellow $5Au spoke with is willing to hire practically ANYONE willing to work in his body shop. Takers are few and far between. He said, "No one wants to work with their hands anymore." An exaggeration, but generally correct.

For young people who do not care about the "bells and whistles" of college life, our public technical and community colleges offer surprisingly affordable tuition, generally less than half that of public four-year colleges and universities. Study nursing, radiation technology, etc., and you will likely start at a salary as good or better than most senior college graduates. In some cases, more than the faculty who taught you.

What you stated is a societal mindset change which will not be resolved through lawsuits that cannot be won. Until such time society remembers that enhanced knowledge isn't the only way to success we're screwed to the industry of learning as a business.