The Middle East is disintegrating

Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 7 months ago to News
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Turkey is the last of the secular Islamic states in the region. If it, too, gets invaded by ISIS, the whole region will destabilize en route to a massive regional conflict.
SOURCE URL: http://www.mail.com/news/world/3110460-islamic-offensive-poses-problems-turkey.html#.23140-stage-hero1-4


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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 9 years, 7 months ago
    I think its just the opposite, its forming into what muslims always wanted. The road of islam creates a unified world under islam and the subjugation or death of anyone who opposes. This is a foreseeable stop as anyone not muslim AND any moderate muslim is butchered publicaly as an example AS WE WATCH ON IN DENIAL.

    Only when it happens here - eruption out of concentrated pockets in every state (particularly Michigan) will the left and the libertarians realize the fallacy in their complacency but it could already be too late.

    No, its not disintegrating..its fulfilling THEIR prophesy.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago
      Oh, I agree that they want the conflict, but it will first start out as the Muslims fighting themselves: Sunni vs Shiite vs Baathist vs Wahab all for religious control. They might band together long enough to gang up on Israel, but they first have to knock off Egypt (a supporter of Israel), Jordan, (another neighbor), and Syria.

      Oh, wait. They've already done all that.

      Next in line is Oman, Yemen, UAB, and then on to the last grand prize: Saudi Arabia. Then we'll watch as the next version of the Ottoman Empire rears its ugly head and begins to look to expand.

      All I can hope is that the whole region doesn't go up in the next two years, but I fear that the table is already set.
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  • Posted by edweaver 9 years, 7 months ago
    It is my belief that the entire middle east will be in chaos by the 4th quarter of 2015. We will be drug into another large scale battle. Hope to be wrong but we are on the course right now. :(
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 7 months ago
    Islam began as a twist on Judaeo-Christianity intended to appeal to Arab nomads, but as with most variations of Abrahamic faith, it was tripped up by the directions those twists took. Many modern Muslims have been attracted to the vision of peaceful tolerance as opposed to the destructive violence of inter-tribal conflict inherent in pre-Islamic culture. Others have adopted Islam as reinforcement of those violent behaviors. The Sunni-Shia feud is just Arab tribal wars brought forward and expanded to a world wide battle.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago
      False. Islam rejects Christ as the Savior, limiting him to just another incidental prophet and proclaiming Mohammed as the prophet to end all prophets.

      Now one can say that the Arabs are descendants of Abraham through Ishmael and that is largely true, but the religion of Islam was invented by Mohammed - it is not an offshoot of either Christianity or Judaism.
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 7 months ago
        All forms of practiced religion are inventions of humanity, whatever your views are on deity. Mohammad was a camel driver in caravans that carried the wealth of Jews and Christians, so his exposure to those faiths influenced his creation of Islam, whatever the source of his inspiration that inspired him to testify.
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        • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago
          I focus on the tenets, and there is no resemblance at all between Islam and either Judaism or Christianity. Islam denies the role of a Savior. Judaism claims He has not come but will while Christianity asserts that He did come.

          You are welcome to believe what you choose. At least until the Muslims have you at sword-point. I, myself, prefer the tolerance of the Jews and Christians.
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 9 years, 7 months ago
    Riddle me this...

    Why do all these religions that seem to enjoy mass murder, and justify it by something someone else said, have to have some sort of so-called prophecy to fulfill? Why can't they just take personal responsibility for their actions, and decide , on their own, to do what's right rather than have some scapegoatish dogma or guilt their way into power thing...

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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago
      What? You mean like use reason and respect other human beings?

      But that wouldn't allow us to go on our power trips and dream about our 72 virgins while covered in the blood of the most recently beheaded infidel! Such sacrilege!

      [PS. I'd like to call that sarcasm, but unfortunately for these people, it is really the way they think.]
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  • Posted by Temlakos 9 years, 7 months ago
    Ayn Rand completely ignored the Middle East in her writings. She later wrote that Israel was the only democracy in the region and deserve U.S. support on that ground. But I don't think she had the slightest idea of the trends there--or the baleful prophecies.

    Now I realize I'm in a forum dedicated to--well, someone who didn't accept the idea of God. I respect that, mainly because Rand, unlike most atheists, still respected the individual and did not seek to substitute government for God as an object of worship. But if anybody is interested, I have an idea for a sequel to AS that I'm willing to share--that involves some of those baleful prophecies coming true, not only in the Middle East but worldwide. I promise not to share unless someone expresses an interest.
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    • Posted by $ puzzlelady 9 years, 7 months ago
      Rand's attitude toward "nomads" and Middle East populations was that theirs is the "tribal" mentality, and she opposed tribalism as the antithesis of individualism. For a long time she didn't even endorse Israel, notwithstanding that she herself was Jewish, until she came to see Israel as a democracy through persuasion from her many Jewish associates.

      As the foremost defender of individualism, she had no use for collectivism, the most primitive forerunner of which system is tribalism. And she was completely correct, since unthinking adherence to the tribe, or hive, or group, is tantamount to irrational mob hysteria. And religious dogma is the chief indoctrination tool for mob cohesion. Individualists and free thinkers are not invited and may well be persecuted.

      My own view is that tribes were a necessary step in human evolution, and the sanctity of the individual was the product of a higher stage of intellectual development, the Enlightenment and the founding of the American premise of individual rights. And these rights are ever imperiled by a resurgence of group think and the promotion of group rights, to which individuals are to be subordinated. That humans are willing to murder each other over these differences is a tragic aberration and an obliteration of the Golden Rule ethic to which all profess to pay lip service.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 7 months ago
        puzzlelady -

        You have stated an important and often overlooked piece of the puzzle. Tribal societies are collectivist non-egalitarian units where the life of the individual is regulated from birth to death. (Non-egalitarian in that the chief is overtly supposed to get the best stuff - there is no facade of equal sharing.) This is where everyone started.

        We have worked our way into a world where the individual matters, but a successful religion that 'controls the individual from birth to death' is very popular and comforting to Christians going from tribal European groups to kingdoms and eventually countries in the 5th-8th century AD...or tribal ME nomads going from the Mesolithic to evolved civilization in a few generations in the 7th century AD. It is very comforting to have a 'script' for your entire life instead of having 'parameters and paradigms' that oblige you to think and give you uncertainty.

        The folks on this list are on the far end of the spectrum. Even those people here who believe in a deity believe in self-responsibility and individuality.

        I think it is important to see that 'this is where we all came from', puzzlelady. 'Tribal collectivism' is not something that is only in 'somebody else's past'...it is in our past too. I am perplexed that it has carried over so successfully into modern life, however, especially in a part of the world that invented writing.

        Jan
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        • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 7 months ago
          Your insight into tribal and collectivist thinking is right on the mark, and also explains modern Progressivism as the recidivist slide back into tribalism that it is. Progressives emphasize collectivist goals and societal regulation as an evolutionary achievement of a superior society, when in reality it represents regressive backsliding from individual freedom and responsibility.
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        • Posted by $ 9 years, 7 months ago
          Some people like to be able to scapegoat others (including God, etc.) for their decisions. It is truly a free man who proclaims responsibility for his/her actions no matter what they be.
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    • Posted by $ Snezzy 9 years, 7 months ago
      Rand spoke at Ford Hall Forum in Boston on 21 October 1973, during the ending days of the Yom Kippur war that had started on 6 October. During the Q&A session after her talk she specifically mentioned Israel as being, in spite of its religious foundation its and socialist leanings, the only civilized country in the area. She characterized the Arabs as "nomads" not worthy of any consideration.

      After the lecture there were some pro-Israel people outside Jordan Hall collecting donations.
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  • Posted by Lucky 9 years, 7 months ago
    There is some good discussion here.
    Correction- Turkey was once a secular Islamic state, not so now, religious fanatics are in the top positions in government.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 7 months ago
    This reminded me of a vision I had this morning while listening to commentary regarding ISIS. I imagined a scene where these jihadists raided a region and slaughtered everybody. Soon, there was nobody left except themselves. Then, they slaughtered each other. Then, there was nobody left.

    The End
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 7 months ago
    What the Muslims all want is a Universal Muslim Caliphate. If they can accomplish that, there will continue to be internal squabbling but it will be a Muslim Europe, and Middle East with no Israel or secular country to interfere with them. And it won't stop there.
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  • Posted by jerry1228 9 years, 7 months ago
    we are using the wrong bombs over there. we need to be using bombs that make glass and never look back at the collateral damage because there is none. they are all our enemy. male female child you name them. they are not educated by choice except in the Koran so they are not worth saving.
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    • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 7 months ago
      I disagree. I think that your extreme stance would make more sense to Muslims that it does to the people on this list. People are individuals, and those individuals who wish to be free of radical Mohammedism shouls not be turned to glass. If all of the innocent and intelligent people in the ME had a refuge 'bag of holding' they could climb into for the duration of this internecine war - then the extremists could happily slaughter each other. When it was over, the individuals could creep out of the hiding places and we could have a good time with them. The enemy is not the Muslim religion (please note Malaysia) but extremism.

      Your 'solution' seems to be ...extreme...

      Jan
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      • Posted by jerry1228 9 years, 7 months ago
        Jan, I question your knowledge of how the arab mind works or doesn't work. The muslim arabs have chosen to remain in the 7th century. I have known many Israelis and they look at the youth of the arab world as future fighters against them, so they think nothing of killing these kids, sorry to say that but it is true. the mothers of these youth support them so they too are the enemy. I grew up neighboring an arab community here in the states so I was exposed to their lack of thinking or as Ayn Rand would say lack reason. I just read on MEMRI that the isis people will not only not back down from the bombing that we are now doing but will I expect expand their efforts else where around the world and that may very well mean attacks here in the USA. Not a pleasant thought is it. so the answer to ending this tragic situation is to turn the desert to glass. you can believe as you will but these arabs are the missing link, they look like humans but the have proven time and time again that they do not function like humans.
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        • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 7 months ago
          I would be sorry were you correct. Perhaps a difference is that the Muslims I know are Malaysian - they dress in various styles (jogbra and hip-huggers and headscarf is stunning; some of them do not wear the scarf at all; many wear beautiful flowing dresses and robes) and get along well with their neighbors of different faiths. (One of them I knew could suss out your password by watching your type it once from across the room. She was a great technical support and installation person!)

          I am making the distinction between 'Muslim' and 'fanatic'. I really do not give a hoot if fanatics kill each other...but I do care if people who are young and innocent are turned to glass and if people who are against the fanatics, but who live next door to them, are tossed in the same bucket as the extremists.

          Jan

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          • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 7 months ago
            I usually refer to them as Jihadist Muslims. One of the difficulties is that there are so many Muslims, that even 10% of them is a very big number. When you talk about millions, it seems there is a Muslim terrorist lurking around every corner. Add to this the "good" Muslims are not speaking out against the Jihadists to any great extent and you get a distrust of every person of that faith.

            Further, as to attitudes in the Gulch, Rand believed that the very idea of anyone basing their lives on faith is a contradiction based on an incorrect premise. As a result of that, you have Randoids who follow every aspect of Objectivism except when it comes to religion. Nathaniel Branden showed how religious people could be a part of Objectivism when he said that while he is an atheist, he is not a militant one. That eliminates all the screwballs that want to take down the ten commandments, etc.
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