Precisely

Hey guys (Thor and TT), I've not been feeling well for a few days and only caught a few things in the Gulch, so I'm late getting back to this party. I would like to clear up a few things before moving on. Taiwan, formerly Formosa, did not secede from mainland China. During WWII the majority of mainland China was governed by the Nationalist government now called the Republic of China (ROC) residing on Taiwan. These are the folks that helped us fight the Japanese during WWII, rescued our pilots, etc. The commie revolution burned across mainland China and eventually crushed most (NOT ALL) of the free ROC government and formed the PRC. The ROC was able to escape to and maintain it's life on the island of Taiwan, it NEVER surrendered and eventually formed its own country, which actually was admitted to the UN. Mainland China was stolen from the ROC by the PRC, not the other way around. It clearly is NOT a secessionist province. Somehow the PRC was able to bully the "world" that China should be represented by them so the world eventually threw the ROC under the bus and put the PRC in its place. The PRC right from the beginning has no right to Taiwan or the free people living there, no matter how much it stamps its feet or rattles its sabers in trying to convince anyone otherwise.

Should the US defend Taiwan should the PRC initiate a shooting war of conquest starting with invading Taiwan? That's a whole different argument than whether or not the people of the ROC deserve to hold on to their freedom.

Totally irrelevant.

No, I have no money invested in Taiwan. I care about most of the items you list, except christian fairy tales. The difference is that I know why I care about them, grounded in philosophy, not Fox News.

6 rounds with nothing but obfuscation, we can safely assume you can not address a logical argument, and have no philosophical basis for your opinions or statements, who pathetically whines about comments to his public statements, and can't admit when he is simply wrong.

Where am I?
I'm here at home trying to fix our massive problems.
Where are you? fixing problems here at home? Or in a foreign country, sticking your nose where it doesn't belong, possibly starting a world war?
No, I don't think you give a rats backside about people halfway across the world, I strongly suspect you have money invested over there, possibly lots of it. As Churchill said "countries don't have friends, they have mutual interests."

What's-a-matter-you? Don't you care about our open borders? our unsustainable debt? our stolen elections, our massive inflation, the imminent collapse of the USD, parents who can't speak out at school board meetings, repression of our christian religion?

Try sneaking into Taiwan. I assure you their borders are far more secure than ours.
No, it appears you don't even care about your own country enough to focus your energies here.
No, you have to agitate, incite, insult in a hopeless case, that is none of our damn business.
If only you would be hurt by your incitement, I wouldn't be speaking out against your bad advice.

Hope your investments work out for you.

God Bless.

...or my Creek Indian ancestors. Yet another red herring. You have no special position as a result of your Indian heritage than me and mine, or all the black descendants of slaves.

Yes, Natural Rights. Have you not heard of them?

No one said you had to support these rights, but if you think they don't exist, why are you here? No doubt you value and enjoy your own version of these rights very much, one of them you exercise right here.

... and again, you attempt to obfuscate the argument by equating people's rights with being forced to defend those people's rights, as if a person owning a car means you have to repair it. And of course you won't stop me from repairing it, either by word or action.

It is very clear you don't support the US defending Taiwan against a Chinese threat. However if you disagree China forcibly subjugating the Taiwanese against their will is inappropriate, you are neither an Objectivist nor Libertarian. There is no way around this.

The right to freedom Heh!
Tell that to my Blackfoot/Iroquois ancestors.

Pick up a gun and go over there fight the PRC.
I won't stop you.

I don't have a dog in that fight.

Thanks for offering me the courtesy that China won't offer Taiwan if they take over, and China now denies Hong Kong.

I'll just say it again, because it is a natural right, Taiwan has a right to their own independence and freedom. Saying they don't is simply totalitarian nonsense. Saying that Xi will deny this right, does not make it a right.

You continue to seek to equate Taiwanese rights to the US choice to defend Taiwan. The minute they are separated, it is completely obvious one group should not force another group to their will. Ayn believed this, and would agree completely. So would any Libertarian.

So say it. Taiwan has a right to freedom.

You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts. The facts are on my side.
China claims Taiwan as a province. Where the rubber meets the road, that's all that matters.

Taiwan wants their independence, I don't blame them I hope they get it. But if President Xi doesn't want it, it won't happen. Period.
And you know why.

This country would make a huge mistake stepping into that breach.

China built an island (for military purposes) not 10 miles off the coast of the Philippines. In Philippine territorial waters. How's that working out?
Do You want to cross swords with China?
Because that's where you're headed.

Cute word games, yes, you used them, man up and own it.

You are the one arguing about war. I am arguing about the right to freedom from oppression. China has no right to the island of Taiwan or to oppress the people of Taiwan against their will. Say it.

Cute word games, yes, you used them, man up and own it.

You are the one arguing about war. I am arguing about the right to freedom from oppression. China has no right to the island of Taiwan or to oppress the people of Taiwan against their will. Say it.

Show me where Ayn Rand ever advocated war in any of her writings?
Much less going into foreign lands to fight their battles for them?

If you were being honest, you would admit the only compelling reason why certain politicians are so vocal about championing the Taiwanese cause is their semiconductor industry. Wanting to succeed from China is all well and good, but it’s not our fight to fight.

Who else wants to succeed from their governing body? Texas. Vermont. Puerto Rico. Hawaii. Quebec... How’s that working out for them? Just because they want out, doesn’t mean they have a snow-balls chance of that happening.

So, why did Taiwan become so integral in taking over US based chip manufacture from Silicon Valley et. El.?

From my very personal experience, I am old enough to remember when DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) manufactured all of their own silicon in Maynard Massachusetts.
They dumped their toxic effluent of the manufacturing process of semiconductors into the Assabet River, where a few towns draw their drinking water. The Assabet, flows into the Concord river where many more towns draw their water, that river became toxic. The Concord River flows into the Merrimac River, where countless more towns and cities draw their water, making that river toxic.
Do you see the pattern here?

It took an act of Congress to stop the mass dumping of these nasty chemicals into our drinking water supply.
The fact that many Asian countries have few, if any, environmental regulations on dumping, add to that, cheap labor.
Now you can understand why we became so heavily dependent on Asian semiconductor manufacturing.
We are taking advantage of lax environmental regulations and cheap labor to line the pockets of a few large corporations.
In short, we are abusing them and polluting their countries.
All in an effort to skirt environmental regulations and make a relatively small number of very large corporations very wealthy.

Cute word games... Like the truth?
Is that you John Bolton? (aka The Walrus)
We have troubles enough here at home than to go around fighting other peoples battles for them. Starting yet another war where have no business being.
Show me where that has worked out well? Iraq? Iran? Afghanistan? Bosnia? Syria? Lebanon? Africa? South America?

I've no more f_cks to give.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqbk9...

If you don't like me and my so-called opinions, maybe _you* might want to find another site?

I know Taiwan's history; I know MANY people from Taiwan; and I have been to Taiwan. Funny, none of the people from Taiwan want to be part of China. Very simple: Taiwan is not China's property. Taiwan is Taiwanese property. Any other position is a use of force to compel people against their will.

Cute word games don't make Taiwan part of China (yes, PRC, yeah yeah). Nor do cute word games make the Republic of Korea part of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (which is nothing of the sort).

If you support that forcing the people of Taiwan to be subordinated by China, you are a problem, in this case, a silly problem. No clue why you are on this site.

"China does not own or have a right to Taiwan, that is a silly concept to defend your neutrality position, but it is completely false"
Duh! It' not MY opinion: Taiwan, PRC Look it up before you start calling people silly.

Maybe. Doubt Trump will relax policy on Taiwan. Soooo. Get ready. China is poised for action there before 2027.

A little world strife would do this generation of LGBTQXYZ Palestine whining children a world of good.


In any case, 1) China does not own or have a right to Taiwan, that is a silly concept to defend your neutrality position, but it is completely false; and 2) we will probably take steps to defend Taiwan, with support from UK (unless the new labor govt changes policy), Australia, South Korea, et al.

I know what the corrupt Buy-Dum regime is doing.
What they are doing is wrong, dead wrong, and bring us closer to world war with every new blunder they make.
The only thing these Fist-effs are accomplishing is driving Russia and China into a military alliance, and the rest of the world into a financial alliance (BRICS) against the USD.
Were you aware there are 20+ US States looking into BRICS? Over half the world, has either signed on, or has applied to BRICS.
I don't know what Traitor Joe's handlers think is their goal, but the financial ruination of this Republic will surely be the result.
Whether we get blown to hell as a bonus, is clearly in in the cards.

Excellent narrative! I finally had a chance to read it. You have given a panoramic view of the mess the US dollar is in. CBDCs will NOT save the day. The way I understand your question towards the end I would rather have Chinese gold currency than smoke-and-mirrors CBDC - and I suspect China and BRICS+ are counting on that. The end is a scary point. Let's hope war doesn't happen to cover the behinds of the fools that got us in this mess to start with.

"BTW - Russia nuking..." Holy smokes! Never saw it that way, LMAO! NIFO from a whole different direction.

No, it doesnt

Right!

“China can just have Taiwan, not our fight” is apparently your perspective, but NOT what we are doing. Being a LOT closer to it than you apparently.

BTW - Russia nuking London and DC would be awesome! That would fix a majority of US problems!

"It has long been acknowledged, Taiwan belongs to China. Period." Maybe there's another way to look at this and that is maybe the Chinese people on the mainland, ruled and represented by the CCP, should belong to the more free Chinese represented by the Taiwan government. Just because Mao and his commie posse burned its way across the Chinese mainland and murdered millions in the process doesn't mean what's left of free Chinese on Taiwan have to knuckle under the CCP yoke. Maybe the CCP should take a hike, not the other way around (yeah, I'm dreamin'). I'm with you, TT, on all the other items in your post.

It has long been acknowledged, Taiwan belongs to China. Period.
This has been discussed Ad nauseam.
Every US president, every first world leader, everyone who has looked at the history and treaties understands Taiwan is China's, China owns Taiwan.
For years they have simply let that little island grow and prosper without any serious intervention.
But face facts, if China wanted to step in with a heavy hand, they could do it tomorrow, there isn't a thing the US or anyone could do to stop it.
I don't think that's in Chinas interest or anyone else's. This is just fear p0rn.

Even if China walks in (and yes, they can just stroll in) I don't see much changing. They, Taiwan, is a golden goose. China likes making money just as much as the next guy.

I see the status quo for the near future.

If I were to pick one issue that presents an existential threat, it is the illegal and UnConstitutional Buy-Dumb Regime.
This @$$w!pe has broken every law in the book and because our government is so deeply corrupt he or his handlers will never be held accountable.
His handlers have weaponized our own congress and judiciary against us.
Knowing his regime can never win a fair and honest election, there will have to be a false flag so devastating it causes lockdowns and disrupts the country to it's core.
What could he (his handlers) possibly do?
I listed to a a retired spook (who was with the Agency for 50 years) last night.
This man is no fan of Trump, in fact, really dislikes him.
But he knows Traitor Joe is much more dangerous to the country.
He has heard some scuttlebutt that was deeply disturbing.
He heard it being proposed that NATO (or the US) pop of a couple tactical nukes on Russia troops. You know, just give 'em a little scare.
Do the math.
Putin has already addressed this scenario.
If such a tactic was used, he would not retaliate against Ukraine.
He would immediately bomb two cities: London. & D.C.
The Russians have bigger bombs the 100MT Czar Bomb. They have larger and more capable hypersonic missiles. 10,000 mph are already fielded with a 28,000 mph version in development stage.

China can have Taiwan. Not our fight.
Poking the Bear, that will ruin our day.
These Shiite-for-brains ruining our country have to go, like yesterday. Or we're all. as good as dead.

While we waste our time on Ukraine.
Taiwan is the Key Strategic Partner to the USA.
First, they are currently the leader (and location of) the best chip fabricators in the world. All the AI Chips are basically in their hands.
We must keep this tech away from China.
I am happy that they are working to build a Chip Fabrication Plant in the USA. As is Intel (finally). If we can keep the EPA and other Govt Agencies out of the situation.

America stands a strong chance of surviving the upcoming MASSIVE CRASH that comes our way. Europe is being dismantled and sent to the dark ages. Germany is turning off their Fertilizer AND manufacturing abilities bc of the lack of fuel. And the LIE that they wanted to shut down the Nuclear Plants (Oopsies)...

As the water ways are controlled by drone water mines. And massive boats become too big of an expense. The number of boats will go down. The CANAL fees per boat will skyrocket, and costs will become such that we are better off making things at home.

If we fail to bring back some basic manufacturing, and the High Tech stuff... We will lose ALL of our edges. We will slide back 50 years of gains.

Worse... The next generation knows they cannot trust the government, or the corporations. I will be arranging my deck chairs as this Titanic Event unfolds...

Remember, statists are more concerned with ideology than results. The idea of taking control (and exercising power) over Taiwan is the important thing; NOT what they actually get from the takeover or how much it costs.