Unfortunately, the implied solution of granting an organization the power to be the literal masters of everyone and turning everyone into actual slaves does not necessarily mean that you are going to have "a ready willing and able police force and court system".

Excerpt from the US oath of allegiance:
"I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law"
I don't know if you notice, but this is an admission by the US state that US citizens are slaves. Because you know, the state can just make a law that everybody must work for free and do what the state wants. You might say that goes against the US constitution but I would argue that nothing is beyond reach with some maneuvering and judge blackmail.

Say the state wants to invade a neighboring territory and take it over. All you citizen slaves better join their thug force (the military) and go kill people and die so your state can have a bigger tax base.

I studied the US laws. To claim that the US is "the land of the free" would be to commit fraud. Bear in mind, the US was supposed to be the freest of all the nations, which it probably is, slavery is probably worse with the rest of the mafia gangs, but apparently not for long, things have been going downhill ever since the beginning.

The argument that you are using is the typical statist propaganda. It is not a valid argument. A voluntary structure with free market and zero slavery can produce "a ready willing and able police force and court system". What would stop it from doing that? In fact, there are companies providing security services in existence. There are private arbitrators which are kind of like judges. The problem is that the state crushes and outlaws any meaningful competition in this area. No wonder one has no choice but to use state-provided "services".

I would argue that first there was slavery and then (after a while) there appeared these idiotic pro-statist arguments. The slaves kept revolting, so, the masters started coming up with all this propaganda and psychological trickery to keep the slaves in line. I am sure one fine day one bright statist started claiming that, you see, you slaves need me because without me you are not going to have a police force and a court system. I guess it worked because the slaves stopped revolting as much. Eventually, lords wielding whips became politicians wielding psychology.

I don't know how you can be claiming that without the state we would all still be on horseback. That is an utterly idiotic argument. One does not need to be a government agent to invent things. One does not need a patent office and enforcement of intellectual property monopolies to have invention. There are other more honest ways to make back the R&D costs. I would argue that the reverse is actually true. Scientific progress happens not because of government, but in spite of it. If not for these parasites, humanity would surely be traveling among the stars by now.

There is a private company that landed on the Moon recently. They spent something like 0.1% of how much it cost NASA, or so I hear. Instead of wasting all this money on the Moon landing with insufficiently advanced technology back around 1970, that money would have been better spent investing into the development of the technology to make it cheaper to go to the Moon, then go by spending pennies on the dollar. Also, going there was stupid, they shouldn't actually have been doing that. Nothing of value was accomplished. The only reason for going should have been profit (for example, if there was something valuable there that didn't exist on earth). What a waste of other people's money and an expensive dick measuring contest for the statists!

Let me try to explain what actually is happening. The statist parasites insert themselves into everything not because they want to make it better but because they want to skim. They claim we need the state to collect taxes and redistribute them to support the required functions of society, but what they are actually doing is collecting the taxes, spending 10% on the needed stuff and keep 90% for themselves and their pet projects. Your police force and court system would be 10 times better/cheaper if not for these parasite leeches.

Your argument for taxation is no good. If there are "necessities" then whoever needs them will pay for them voluntarily. Otherwise they don't really need it, do they?

You collect taxes from me by force, conscript me into your gang, make me do stuff I would otherwise not. I would argue that is slavery. You then claim that it is to protect my freedom. "Freedom is not free." This is laughable and very 1984ish. May I remind you that the antonym of freedom is slavery. How can you be free if you are having to be a slave?

How would you know if the government is excessive? The only way to know is to have competing alternatives in a free market. But what a surprise! That is the exact thing that is made illegal by the statist parasites. Ya, they don't want to expose themselves.

"For me there is no utopia."
"The two absolutes in life are death and taxes."
That is a defeatist attitude. There is nothing stopping near infinite life. I even came up with a few ideas for how to make it work. As for elimination of taxes, the masses will have to undo the brainwashing and exterminate the parasites.

I feel sorry for you guys. You are in an intellectual prison of your own making. You are both the prisoner and the guard. The sad part is that you also help keep innocent people like me enslaved. THAT is the real world.

Thanks, FFA.

Here's a link to a free pdf:
https://archive.org/download/TheMachi...

I thought libertarianism was for limited government and borders. I would be against that because it is still violence, no matter how limited.

Sorry, I don't read much due to a lack of time. A lot of you guys on this site recommended many books and I have got them ready to go, but these days it is hard to find the time, even with audio books.

However, it makes me feel more confident about my ideas to know that someone else derived the same independently. Surely, a sign that I am on the right track to arrive at the truth.

I will, of course, try to read this book as soon as I can.

Yes, in 78 years of life having lived through the "golden years" in a traditional conservative family my brain is destroyed. I have witnessed the good, the bad, the ugly of various cultures and government structures. I prefer to live in peace with a ready willing and able police force and court system that will dispatch the bad guys promptly. I prefer fossil fuel transportation rather than horse back transportation. There is no free lunch and at some point these "necessities" need to be paid for. Yes, taxation is always a burden but a necessary evil. It is the excessive government and free rides given to the non producers that I would eliminate. For me there is no utopia. I live in the real world but would live in the Gulch if it ever came to be. At 78 years of age I still work forty to fifty hours a week and support myself and family. As my father always said - The two absolutes in life are death and taxes. Everything else is relative.

Sounds quite libertarian.
Have you read David Friedman's book The Machinery of Freedom: Guide to a Radical Capitalism?
It has many ideas similar to your comment.

I only wish to be left alone and not be predated upon by parasites.

This question right there exposes how your brain (unfortunately) has been utterly destroyed by statist propaganda. You see, these parasites mess with meanings of words to confuse their prey. It would be hard for me to respond because I don't know exactly what you mean by the word 'anarchy'.

I am advocating for 'no more violence and fraud'. The state propagates itself by violence and fraud. Not only that, but it acts as a parasite, sucking the life out of the masses and using them as slaves. I don't want to have that. Who wants to be a slave?

I suggest to redesign the whole system. The system I would propose has the following properties:
1. Separation of law making and law enforcement. Laws are assumed to have always existed and are derived (formally proved) from universally accepted principles by academia-like community. There are many good things that follow from this, such as violence/fraud is only acceptable in self defense and only in certain situations, monopolies can only exist when enforced by inappropriate application of violence/fraud, etc.
2. Abolition of law enforcement monopolies (follows from #1). Law enforcement must not enforce its own monopoly. Multiple law enforcement and security services must be allowed to exist. The people that use the services and pay for them must be allowed to chose their provider. The people must be allowed to not buy any of those services if they so choose, provided that they understand the consequences of not having protection. Taxation must be abolished in favor of voluntary purchasing of services. The law enforcement service must enforce laws that have been thoroughly proven to be true and widely agreed upon. If an agency deviates from this, other agencies have a reason to bring it to justice.
3. Overhaul of the 'justice' system. No more punishment or prison, only repayment of damages and labor camps. Punishment is a childish idea. The victims must be compensated by the perpetrators. The perpetrators must also pay for the expense of themselves being brought to justice. This is how you make law enforcement cheap. Let the criminals pay for their own arrest and any costs associated with bringing them to justice. The customers of the law enforcement services would only pay for base upkeep costs and for being able to have someone on call to help them should the need arise.

Are you advocating complete anarchy?

"The state is a highly advanced mafia organization. Taxes are a criminal extortion scheme."
Undoubtedly true. What alternative do you suggest ?

The people depending on the existing SS system can't be betrayed by government.
They must continue to receive some promised retirement but the bleeding must be
treated with a tourniquet. For example, inflation 'adjustments' must be phased out.
People not yet in the system must be offered a phased buy out to reduce the long
term costs. Alternatives to that must also be offered to entice higher income
retired people to exit the old system.
Medicare must end; it's a program that supports high prices of hospitals and med services.
SS 'taxes' on younger people must be phased out and replaced with payments into
their choice of investments (including 'starter' home ownership and bonds with
guaranteed returns.)
None of this will be easy because government programs have been manipulated
for decades by money from stake-holders with financial incentives that are not in
the interests of individuals who are supposed to be served by the system.
The fact is that government can't support the existing system except by destroying
the currency. It will end one way or another.
We either plan the changes or let the people be crushed by the collapse.
Politicians are opting for the latter because they feel they won't suffer.
Wall Street has been great at coming up with ways to use government to cheat investors.
Time for them to imagine ways to reform the system they have milked for
unearned profits for a century and serving the customers instead.

You guys are so brainwashed by statism, you can't see what is literally in front of you.

The state is a highly advanced mafia organization. Taxes are a criminal extortion scheme.

Taxation is an armed robbery, a mafiaesque idea. Why would you advocate for your fellow men to be robbed at gunpoint for their own 'protection?'

Social Security cuts? What do you do about the elderly stuck with the current system? There are options to do this, but you want to avoid making the feds the biggest player in the stock market. One way is to make the program real personal accounts, based on treasury bills. That carries fiscal responsibility and accounting.

There are already medical insurance alternatives, like doctors who offer a direct primary care service, at far lower cost than current insurance programs. Expanding the hospitalization at home practice, which is cheaper and healthier than going to infested expensive institutions, and creating more opportunity for virtual medical service reduces costs as well. Forcing competition into the medical profession will quickly bring down the cost, and help get the feds out of the "mainline" for medical care. Creating incentives for private medical accounts, by offering higher interest, is a way that benefits the public and the banks, since those funds would be held longer than in regular savings accounts.

There are other solutions to get government out of our personal lives, and I'm in favor of any that make sense. Too many people who latch onto one idea, and ride it like it's a crusade, set themselves up to fail right out of the gate.

Unfortunately, as already proven in America, any tax on income that starts simple (and 'only on the rich')
increases and expands to include and enslave anyone who isn't rich enough to get their personal loopholes.
Increasing probably extends to a tax on consumption, too, unless government activities are curtailed to
explicitly mentioned in the constitution with spending curtailed to pre-1913 levels with no adjustment for inflation.
Any 'service' that is needed, people will voluntarily pay for in a free market with competition keeping costs
down and allowing failures to go out of business.
I agree, the con-gress (nor the bureaucracy) will never reduce spending or their power. NIFO.

A flat tax, or the Fair Tax (a bit more complicated) could clean out most of the crap and make life simpler for everyone. Putting the Fair Tax into effect requires abolishing the 16th amendment in order to insure later administrations don't use its existence as an expedient when they can't bring themselves to control the budget.

Technically, a flat tax on income would be the easier solution. Everyone would have "skin in the game," and any wealthy who currently pay little to no income tax would have to cough up what they now avoid (though if they bothered to tally up the cost of lawyers, accountants, and trust administrators that make tax avoidance possible, they'd probably find out it would save them money).

Probably neither of those changes will take place without a Convention of the States, in accordance with constitutional guidelines. Con-gress just can't be trusted to keep its hands out of the cookie jar.

When Neal Boortz explained this to me, over the radio a "few" years ago, I thought it was the way to go. Since, I have heard nothing that makes more sense. A consumption tax, and not compulsory - the way to go!

I couldn't agree more. Nuke the banking cartel worldwide.
Wipe out the Wall St gang of gambling looters, too. They just use different plates in the printing press.

FFA, so you are pointing out the real issues.
Yes, what makes the Fair Tax "Workable" is that it stops the massive BS spending that got us here.

The real problem is that our money is FIAT and banks create it at will, and are not taxed for creating it.

Imagine I give you a gold mine. You sell the gold. The government taxes you on the INCOME (above the costs of mining). Interesting...

Because if I have a bank. And I CREATE Money out of thin air... Is that Taxed? NOPE. Hmmm. And we wonder why everything is broke.

It's not the lack of tax, BTW. It is the ability to create Money with DEBT. Not with EFFORT.

And it's reserved for a special group...
And they get all of the bailouts, because DESPITE this ability, they always get excessively greedy (and they are running a Ponzi scheme) and therefore always need bailing out.

All of these things eventually need addressing.
Good luck taking money from wealthy people.
Good luck educating the masses.
Good luck getting politicians to forgo their incentives.

So we also agree on what ultimately needs to happen!

Requiring a balanced budget?
That would doom the 'fair tax' since the scum aren't going to cut spending and they can't pass a bill imposing a high enough tax rate to cover the 4 trillion being wasted plus the 1 trillion in interest.
My issue with the 'fair tax' is that it MUST be low enough to force spending cuts on day 1.
Social security must also be cut and to do that most of the money being wasted on 'defense' far from our shores must be spent to buy out younger people who are being robbed to pay for people already receiving SS payments.
Medicare must be cut substantially, too. Today it encourages the 'medical profession' (and the always voracious insurance 'industry') to provide trillions in unnecessary 'services' under medicare. Kill medicare and kill Oracistcare. Encourage private doctors to set up their own 'insurance' plans for patients. Discourage doctors from forming or joining large corporate 'services' that always concentrate on profits instead of patient care.
Doctors care more about their mansions and country clubs than patients.

Until the national budget is completely reformed and reduced to 1970's levels, a 'fair' tax will be too high to implement.

D.C. NIFO. They are the enemy.

That IRS guy with an accent in the video just revealed unto me the dino what sort of job to offer to any of the millions of invading illegals who feel like they really for really real just may want to work.
You know, instead being government paid to lounge about in hotels also being government paid to house them until it is time to get off their butts to go vote Democrat. Oops, I just overlooked ballot harvesting.
Anyhoo, that would be a government job that it is next to impossible to be fired from. And most specifically that would be a job with the IRS.
Why?
For them to come and destroy our lives is why The Constitution was shredded to throw open our borders in the first place.
Viva the IRS! Yes, we have no bananas for the gringos! Blacks get back in your shacks! Andele! Andele!

Who audits the auditors?
No one in the bureaucracy can be trusted to expose any con-gress critter's crimes, e.g., FBI and treasonous judges.
We, the people, are the final auditors and we must take up arms in order to get any justice against the traitors and slave-masters in D.C.
The legal system has no justice for anyone not in the thrall of the Deep State.

OHHHHHHHHHH I LIKE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was thinking a similar thing as a response to dumb-ass Biden from Congress: If you want to send money to the Ukraine, start with the loan forgiveness money!

Flat rate tax. Eliminate IRS.

Weaponization can not happen if the government doesn't have power;