It Really Doesn't Matter Who Created Bitcoin. Or Why

Posted by markjr 7 months, 1 week ago to Economics
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Even if it was the NSA, the CCP or the WEF.

Bitcoin is beyond anyone’s control, and it's the Kryptonite for the coming CBDCs.
SOURCE URL: https://bombthrower.com/it-really-doesnt-matter-who-created-bitcoin-or-why/


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  • Posted by mhubb 7 months ago
    bitcoin is just about worthless
    you cannot eat it
    when the world falls apart is is just another piece of paper

    ok to invest if you have money that is just sitting there
    but be prepared to loose it as that is always a possibility in investing
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    • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
      counter argument:
      gold is just about worthless
      you cannot eat it
      when the world falls apart is is just another metal

      ok to invest if you have money that is just sitting there
      but be prepared to lose it as that is always a possibility in investing
      for example if advancing technologies make it easier and cheaper to mine
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      • Posted by Dobrien 7 months ago
        Huh ?
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        • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
          Read the post I was responding to, then read mine.

          If gold becomes cheaper to mine, through advancing technology or otherwise, more gold will be mined and put on the market, causing the price of gold to decrease and the price of goods and services denominated in gold to rise. Evidence: California gold rush 1848. https://www.metaldetector.com/blogs/n...

          "The large quantities of gold being discovered caused the pieces being mined to drop significantly in value. An ounce of gold went from $16 all the way down to $12 an ounce within months and stayed there, at least until some supplies started coming back East, and they were able to regulate prices accordingly."

          Also: https://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/22922/...

          " The gold pans that miners needed cost 20 cents before 1849, but soon were sold for $8 each. The cost of eggs rose from $1.00, to $2.00, to $3.00 per egg."
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    • Posted by tutor-turtle 7 months ago
      Anything that relies on advanced technology to function properly (or at all) is subject to manipulation, seizure, cancelation...
      Precious metals have stood the test of time.
      When we arrive at the point where precious metals are essentially worthless, stick a fork in humanity, we're done.
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  • Posted by term2 7 months ago
    The only problem I have with bitcoin is that it IS a fiat currency in itself. Its NOT store of value by any means. I always wondered where the US dollars I might have put into it exchange for the digital representations actually went? Who got them. I am pretty sure that if all the people who wanted to trade in their bitcoin for US dollars might find out its a giant ponzi scheme
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    • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
      It's not a ponzi scheme.

      A ponzi scheme is controlled by its originator. Bitcoin is decentralized.

      A ponzi scheme pays early investors with the money collected from later ones. Bitcoin can be traded for cash back and forth by anyone.

      A ponzi scheme generally involves deception. Bitcoin does not.

      A ponzi scheme relies on a continuing influx of new money for those who want to cash out. Bitcoin does not.
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      • Posted by term2 7 months ago
        I put dollars in somewhere and received the digital code for the bitcoin from somewhere. But where did the dollars go, and if I want to trade in the bitcoin, from where do the dollars come from . what if everyone wanted to get rid of their bitcoin, what happens then>
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        • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
          That doesn't make it a ponzi scheme. Your dollars were exchanged for bitcoin from an (anonymous) seller who had previously purchased or mined the bitcoin. The mechanics of the trade are not fundamentally different from exchanging your dollars for gold.

          "If everyone wanted to get rid of their bitcoin" is not a realistic scenario. Bitcoin has been around for more than a decade, it has no secret features, and its advantages and disadvantages are well known. Like gold, bitcoin functions as money because a sufficient number of people like its features and are willing to use it as a medium of exchange.
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          • Posted by term2 7 months ago
            But it is just another fiat currency like the paper dollar. All you “own” is some digital numbers. Doesn’t sound like a store of wealth to me. It’s backed by nothing, just like the U.S. dollar and could evaporate overnight. If I wanted my bitcoins even, where are they? I must be missing why people think this is a good idea. Certainly the U.S. dollar is a terrible store if wealth. It’s only a medium of short term exchange
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            • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
              Bitcoin is not a fiat currency. Its use as money is not created, nor is its use enforced, by a government authority.

              According to dictionary.com, "Fiat: an arbitrary decree or pronouncement, especially by a person or group of persons having absolute authority to enforce it."

              Unlike gold, bitcoin is intangible. So is a degree from a prestigious university, but people are willing to exchange a lot of money (and work) for it, and its value in the marketplace is derived from its recognized usefulness to a sufficiently wide group of people. Same with bitcoin, even though the reason for its usefulness is different.
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              • Posted by term2 7 months ago
                A college degree is not a store of value. What is of value is the knowledge hopefully acquired and youur ability and willingness to use that knowledge to benefit others. It is not the degree itself that is worth anything in itself.

                Bitcoin is a medium of exchange as is the dollar. It is not a store of wealth since a good EMP could eradicate its value instantly.

                Bank deposits aren’t a store of wealth either as we find out when a bank fails. The dollar isn’t a store of wealth either.

                Gold isn’t really a store of value in itself either unless you can use it for your own life. It’s value, like with bitcoin lies in what value others see in it

                On the other hand, a house that you live in is a store of wealth for your own life and for those you leave it to -assuming government doesn’t
                Take it from you
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              • Posted by term2 7 months ago
                Maybe my use of fiat was wrong. What bothers me is that all you hold is a digital number in a computer somewhere, there is nothing tangible behind thst digital number. Similar to the dollar that is a receipt for nothing. One good emp and bitcoin is instantly worthless like an account in dollars in an American bank. If a lot of people lose faith in bitcoin, what happens to the wealth you were hoping to preserve? Something like gold that you hold physically seems to me more dound
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                • Posted by $ CBJ 6 months, 4 weeks ago
                  A powerful enough EMP (electromagnetic pulse) would likely bring down civilization as we know it. Under that circumstance, having some gold might be useful for short-term survival but would not be an adequate defense against a total breakdown of the social order.
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                  • Posted by term2 6 months, 4 weeks ago
                    I agree that an emp would bring down civilization as we know it. At least if you owned a real item, like a house, gold, silver, a working farm, gun and ammo, and things like that, you could pull yourself up by the bootstraps and have some degree of survival. Bitcoin would be useless, as would bank account denominated in dollars.. The EMP scenario is not totally out of the question, but it would indeed take more than one of them to bring down the whole USA.
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  • Posted by jack1776 7 months ago
    Please make me understand this as I can’t comprehend this, replacing one fiat currency with a digital version of another non-government backed fiat currency will somehow protects my wealth? What if the government said no, bitcoin is now not legal currency, so sorry? Bitcoin is not backed by anything of wealth so it can go to zero in a heartbeat, correct? It’s simply a product, only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. I also don’t get the hype about it being anonymous as all previous transactions are recorded in the fractional token itself. And lastly, what happens to my money when the internet goes down for good? Bitcoin needs infrastructure to transfer the coins, correct?
    Why not real money, like precious metals?
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    • Posted by CaptainKirk 7 months ago
      Jack,
      First, it's not fiat. It must be mined. The mining uses CPU/Electricity. The halving causes the cost of mining to basically double. It's a competitive designed system to encourage a lot of people to run miners. The more miners, the more security you have.

      And it does NOT have the value of some buyer, of any buyer. It has the value where Buyers/Sellers meet.
      Just like stocks, bonds, and many things we deal with notationally.

      If nobody wants yours for a price you are willing to take. Don't sell it.

      But the MAGIC of BTC is that Nobody controls it. And the TOTAL NUMBER is established, and CANNOT be changed.
      So... No Watering down the currency. It's provably secure. (in fact, it's security is one of it's drawbacks).

      Criticize it for the Transaction Fees. But don't call it FIAT.

      And using the logic: "It could be outlawed"... Well, in a society like ours... So can Free Speech, and YOUR access to BANK accounts. If BTC were embraced... NOBODY could prevent you from buying/selling yours for whatever you wanted.
      THAT'S the goal. No bankers or government in the middle of every transactions.

      Yes, it's new. Try explaining the Federal Reserve system to someone 100 years ago. M1, M2, M3, etc.

      They literally cannot be duplicated. The cannot be watered down.
      I dare you to find a better starting place for a modern currency.
      (Oh, and unlike the dollar, it's more than currency, it's actual money... Especially once fully adopted)
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      • Posted by jack1776 7 months ago
        CaptainKirk,

        I must disagree with you on these points below:

        Bitcoin is fiat, just like the dollar, neither is money, they are currency. The dollar has value, the paper is really nice… But the value of the paper is not proportional to the face value of the note. The same with bitcoin, the value used to discover the unique number has nothing to do with the face value assigned to it.

        I do agree that the limiting number of coins is a great value for Bitcoin, my issues and not with this aspect of it.

        My biggest objection to holding bitcoin is that it’s based-on technology. It’s a virtualized fiat currency, if the power goes out, you have nothing. I’m a cloud automation engineer for a (less than) respectable internet company. The cloud is just someone else’s hardware, it’s nothing special. I’ve seen how projects are run, how people take shortcuts and put other people’s business into jeopardy. These guys are releasing code without testing let alone testing is nearly impossible due to the complexities of the environments. The value of the bitcoin you hold is tied to this development cycle with you have no control over.

        “Bitcoin isn’t controlled by the government” – hogwash… Bitcoin is reliant upon systems controlled by foreign entities. The reliance on the internet is the single biggest reason why I don’t invest in bitcoin. Technology is easy to implement and it’s even easier to break but even better, is to corrupt. You are trusting that the developers have not provided a backdoor into the blockchain for the government. It’s possible and you can never be sure, humans are corruptible.

        Jack
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        • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
          ”You are trusting that the developers have not provided a backdoor into the blockchain for the government.”

          Bitcoin is open source. The code is out there. If there is a “backdoor”, why wasn't it discovered long ago?

          https://www.coindesk.com/learn/open-s...

          ”Bitcoin is fiat, just like the dollar . . . “

          Bitcoin is not fiat. According to http://dictionary.com, "Fiat: an arbitrary decree or pronouncement, especially by a person or group of persons having absolute authority to enforce it."
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        • Posted by CaptainKirk 7 months ago
          Jack,
          You are not wrong.
          The old RSA Random Number Generator was Corrupted by the NSA/CIA so the range of numbers it produced were reduced in such a way, that they could hack it.

          Yes. It's not perfect. The one aspect I don't like is that we rely on the internet. And I would prefer a system that was not counterfeitable, like paper is.

          But your model has to have some level of assumptions. My basic one is that IF there is no internet and no power... It's a DIFFERENT GAME.

          If life continues forward WITH those things. This will be an obvious solution to GOVT controlling our currencies/wallets. Which MUST END.

          Banking... And Income Taxes came 1 yr apart, and were designed to enslave us, and they have.

          I want a potential exit.

          I am open to workable alternatives.
          Do you have any?
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    • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
      What if the government said no, bitcoin is now not legal currency, so sorry?

      Already happened with gold, could happen again. Didn’t destroy gold’s value. Bitcoin had/has value (people are willing to pay for it at prices set by the market) even without being legal currency.

      Bitcoin is not backed by anything of wealth so it can go to zero in a heartbeat, correct?

      The dollar is not backed by anything of wealth so it can go to zero in a heartbeat, correct? No, it has value as long as people are willing to use it as a form of money. Same with bitcoin, except that the maximum number of bitcoin is built into its software, while the maximum number of dollars is infinite.

      And lastly, what happens to my money when the internet goes down for good?

      I don’t see that happening. If it does, it will be caused by an event so catastrophic that the world will not be worth living in, even if you have a money bin full of gold and an effective means of safeguarding it.

      Why not real money, like precious metals?

      Why not a free market in which participants can decide which money is “real”?
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      • Posted by jack1776 7 months ago
        All good arguments but I’m still a skeptic:

        When gold was outlawed, gold’s value wasn’t destroyed; this is my major point, it has value in itself. I know you can’t eat gold but if I need something large, I bet I’m able to find someone willing to trade with gold and silver still.

        Agreed, the dollar and bitcoin are both fiat currencies…

        Internet going down - I’m holding precious metals in my possession for this reason. You might not have been paying attention (not being argumentative, just making a point, sorry) but the economy and our way of life has been set up for a major fall, deliberately.

        1) The economy has been weakened massively with the intentional printing of dollars.
        2) Fentanyl is flowing into our country to weaken us within.
        3) Our new generation of fighting young “men” are not.
        4) Covid was a cover to introduce a vaccine, in my opinion, to cull the herd.
        5) We have two conflicts that have dwindled our armories and could quite possibly trigger WWIII.
        6) We have a president with oatmeal for brains.
        7) All diesel engines must use DPF to function, easy trigger to stop commerce. There was a DPF scare about a year ago, would have stopped everything in its tracks.
        8) One of Barack Obama first actions as president was to transfer control of DNS outside of the US. Control of the internet…

        It’s a trap, bitcoin will be blocked from trading. I’m starting a business helping companies become self-sufficient in the cyber world. Everything is being set up for total control, including digital cash or CBDC. I would agree that bitcoin would be a good alternative, but I guarantee they will not allow you to trade Bitcoin once this all starts.
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        • Posted by CaptainKirk 7 months ago
          Oh, but AFTER they paid us for TAKING our gold.
          They let gold double in price. Hmmm... Strange...

          You mean the price of Gold can be manipulated?
          Silver?
          The LIBOR?

          All of it. And it is.
          To the benefit of the bankers!
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      • Posted by freedomforall 7 months ago
        "Why not a free market in which participants can decide which money is “real”?"
        That, I can agree with as a great idea.

        Unfortunately, unless there is an armed uprising, corrupt looters in government
        and their collaborators have and will use the power to end use (by anyone
        politically lower than themselves) of any 'money' that they can't control.
        Bitcoin should be a legal form of money for anyone who wants to use it.
        But its current use interferes with the power of the state to control the serfs.
        The state will change its use or curtail it using their power over access to it.
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  • Posted by $ Markus_Katabri 7 months ago
    Bitcoin isn’t a Ponzi scheme at all. It’s just another form of fiat. Yes it has a theoretical ceiling. But there’s no floor. Beyond how many decimals one is comfortable going out.
    In a different world where everything wasn’t already screwed up I’d say BTC was a great idea. After the collapse BTC may be the way to go. Honestly it’s easier to “mine” than gold. But until the creature from Jekyll Island breathes it’s last putrid breath it remains a danger to all forms of wealth storage. Including BTC.
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  • Posted by $ Markus_Katabri 7 months ago
    It’s not a coincidence that USDT and BTC rose together. Since Tether was “tethered” to the dollar one to one it took a lot of money to finance that rise. There are very few organizations that had that much “quiet” access to that many dollars. I’m not leading people down the rabbit hole. I’m merely pointing out that it exists and where it is. I see the tracks. Look at the valuations and trading volumes of both cryptos round about 2017. Or don’t. It matters not. Nothing will stop what’s coming. Kind of like the election. I’m just saying that anything you can’t lay your hands on in 15 minutes, or less, isn’t really yours. Another way of saying it “the less paper between you and the gold the better”
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 7 months ago
    A few AI’s have been set free to explore the web and collect data. Consequence: there has been a steep increase in spam, malicious spam, and assaults on my firewalls. Fact.
    Now combine unfettered AI with the emergence of quantum computers and how long do you think crypto currency passwords, no matter how well encrypted, will last?
    Who owns the AI? Who owns the quantum servers? Not you or me?

    As suggested before, take advantage of crypto rage, profit off it and jump ship before the hammer falls.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 7 months ago
    Naïve statements.

    Determine the encryption used or the transit protocol, and can be filtered anywhere along the route to your location and IT'S GONE. Any relay point apart from your computer modem/firewall/router is OUTSIDE your ability to influence.

    crypto like hosting your data/servers online REQUIRES trust AND SHARES your data with strangers. Great thing to do with "wealth". More, whatever is the host location (its hardware and its connectivity) has the ability to prohibit access or filter content how it sees fit.

    This isn't hard. And, from a technical standpoint pretty simple to do.
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    • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
      If bitcoin is so easily hacked, how was it able to get off the ground in the first place, let alone become so valuable?
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      • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 7 months ago
        It was allowed to in order to facilitate acceptance of electronic currency and rid the world of paper and coin. Like phones and broadcast TV were analog and frequency based, converting them to digital allowed them to be micromanaged and folks charged for every kilobit of use. Why? It can be regulated, manipulated, and/or turned off.

        Once we’re are dependent on crypto, rules and conditions will be made and nonconformity will get you cut off.
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        • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
          This theory does not compute. If bitcoin could be easily hacked, the baddies would have been all over it, whether "allowed" or "not allowed". Phones and TV were manipulated from the start, phones were a government-enforced monopoly and TV networks were uniformly left wing apologists for the government. There's far more access to real information today, and more distrust of government - which, incidentally, is attempting to undermine bitcoin and other cryptos as much as possible.
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          • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 7 months ago
            CBJ in 1991 I was part of a group called the network professionals association which met monthly in downtown Phoenix in either Microsoft’s, Novell’s or Xeroxes office. At that time US West, today centurylink, boasted how they projected $100/mo per house and $200/mo per business for communications. They called everything we see today and got their money.

            The same sentiments and projections are being used for digital currency. Crypto is just the tool that will be used. The trouble is the control given.

            Wuhan was funded, tech shared and released globally. Media, governments, and society in general pushed poison based on the knee jerk hype. Millions have died BECAUSE they allowed it, made it so, fostered the environment.

            Do you really think governments could plan out the crossover to digital currency by helping it establish a toehold?
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            • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
              Sorry but I'm having trouble making any sense out of your post. Sentiments, projections, an amorphous "they" who "fostered the environment"?

              Can you lay out a logical case for your theories, one that identifies the supposed perpetrators, what they plan to do, how they plan to do it, and some actual evidence to back up your theories?
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              • Posted by jack1776 7 months ago
                “They” have remained anonymous, but I believe “they” are the collective of the following groups – United Nations, World Economic Forum, Bill Gates, Goerge Soros, United States Government, and many other entities. I can listen to what “they” have said and then witness the changes I have seen to surmise the responsible parties. All civilizations fall, mostly due to the civilization itself, I think these entities above know this and are ushering us into a single worldwide government. Our freedoms are at stake and tyranny is at our doorstep. The agenda 2030 as published by the UN is what is happening right now, I live near Boise, ID, the liberal major has approved and funded these new apartments with business underneath, so the inhabitants don’t need cars. The proof is right in front of you if you open your eyes and look around. Our way of life is being setup to take a fall, guaranteed they will blame capitalism and the majority of the uneducated populus will shallow that explanation for a bed and a meal from the mother government. The writing is on the wall, I see it, don’t you?
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                • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
                  I was hearing the same arguments 60 years ago, when presidential candidate Barry Goldwater was, in the words of one doomsayer, “the last bus out” before Armageddon. The circumstances and some of the players have changed, but the mantra is the same. “Our freedoms are at stake and tyranny is at our doorstep.” Somehow “they” are all part of a grand conspiracy, and “they” have seemingly unlimited power and a master plan to take over the world. “They” will succeed unless we all suddenly “wake up”. These assertions were not credible to the general public in 1964 and aren’t credible now. Promoting such theories will do nothing to advance the cause of individual liberty, and will likely turn off many people who might otherwise be our allies.
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                  • Posted by jack1776 7 months ago
                    I switched in 2020 from a position where you are at to a position where these theories are facts. I watched the virus make its way here from China, I bought provisions for a true pandemic, then I witnessed the media pushing various agendas. There was direction, intent in leading the populous to a conclusion what was faults. Then the vaccine and the hype to “force” people to take it. My eyes are open, I see the orchestration and the fact that these conspiracy theories are in fact true conspiracies and are being orchestrated at such a high level that now, I question everything.

                    I'm not trying to be rude, but this is nothing like 1964; we are driving the car off the cliff. The kids are still in the back seat, and no one has a seat belt on. I don’t understand how you could say everything is fine. It’s obvious that it’s not and that we are approaching the end. I find this conversation very interesting as I can’t understand how you can have the opinion that “everything is fine”.
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                    • Posted by freedomforall 7 months ago
                      I agree, although in both 1964 and today the media messages are lies.
                      In 1964 the media were only screaming 'wolf' because they were intent on stopping Goldwater
                      because he appeared to have integrity and respect for the People. The media was lying and
                      the only danger was that the People might have a defender in office who could have uncovered
                      and exposed the actual assassins of JFK. The murdering scum couldn't take a chance of that
                      happening, so the propaganda was Goldwater would cause WW3. (Kind of like the lies of the
                      media about Trump, when the truth was LBJ and Buydem were the ones who wanted war.)
                      Today the media are screaming "All is Well! Be Happy, Go Shopping!" and the country is
                      actually on the verge of default (that will cut buying power of the People by at least 50%.)
                      The bus out of financial Armageddon has already left the station, but there is a chance to
                      restore individual liberty instead of serfdom. I don't think that will happen peacefully.
                      I suspect either 300+ million will be serfs or millions will die in revolution (with no guarantees of
                      success.)
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                      • Posted by mccannon01 7 months ago
                        Yes. The 1964 harbingers of "The Marxists are going to take over America" seem to be right on, IMHO. It's been a slow cook, but the Overton Window has been moving steadily socialist totalitarian since then. Fascist and communist alike - they are two sides of the same coin.
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                    • Posted by $ CBJ 7 months ago
                      I never said or implied that “everything is fine”, I simply said that it’s not helpful to declare that our current circumstance is due to some powerful but undefined conspiracy. It isn’t, and claiming that it is will get us nowhere. What we really have is a bunch of control freaks in the political arena. taking tactical advantage of situations as they arise. “Never let a crisis go to waste.”

                      In most respects, things were much worse in the 1930s and 1940s than they are today. The U.S. government outlawed gold, attempted to impose corporate fascism on the economy, befriended and bailed out Stalin’s Soviet Union, and herded over 100,000 Japanese-American citizens into internment camps. We face a different set of threats today, but also have many advantages. People are much less trusting of government, and advocates of freedom can communicate much more easily with each other.

                      The real battleground is in the realm of ideas. At present, our public institutions, educational and political, are dominated by left wing ideologists. We need to overcome the domination of this mindset before we can hope to achieve a truly free society. Otherwise, even if we throw the current set of would-be dictators out of power, a new group, equally bad, will take over.
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