Because of the republicans shutting down the government his newspapers weren’t delivered, therefore he didn’t find out he said it until yesterday. Had he found out sooner he wouldn’t have said it; it was a you tube video. As reported on MSLSD and Huff and Puff’s article ”bl O your house down.”
I'm impatient! We don't have much time....We need to have the truth screamed by those who can't deny it anymore. It should be twitted to EVERYone! And facebooked to the masses. How do we do that?
Its amazing! Many of us knew way back when that the man has been lying through his teeth and these bozos who are being paid to find out the truth about such matters are just now getting it.....Amazing!
This is some kind of scandal? My agent told me this was coming almost two years ago, and it's played out exactly as expected. I'm now paying extra for coverage I don't want. We knew this was coming. My agent even offered a plan to renew right before the deadline so I could keep my plan for 18 months. I didn't do it b/c it would have meant another round of underwriting; it wasn't worth it for 6-12 mo of lower premiums.
Anyway, this is fundamental to the plan. They're making plans cover extra things. People can't expect that to be free. It blows my mind that you can turn this into a scandal.
It's more of a revelation. Many here in the Gulch knew what would happen when Obamacare went live. Some brave souls shouted that many would lose their coverage. Most of the mainstream media fiddled as time went by. NBC is now admitting what we all knew for some time.
Those of you who thought he had a magic wand that would add reasons your plan would pay out but not increase the premiums are shocked and appalled, duped by marketing-savvy politicians.
Have you seen all the people being interviewed that have lost their plans that they wanted to keep? Many people were duped because they supported and believed the President.
The key points to the story are these. 1-Obama said many times if you like your plan you can keep your plan. 2-He knew all along that 40 to 60 per cent would lose their plans. This isn't typical spinning. These are outright lies to force a socialistic health care plan thru.
That's the point. Keeping your plan should mean keeping your plan. Leave them as is. If you change then the new plans available could meet the new criteria but that would take too long. This is a disgrace.
A strong point IMHO is he was using the "your can keep your current plan" language even at a time when the bill would eliminate HSAs. If you're eliminating a whole type of product, it's hard to justify that language. Politicians weren't touting that "feature", so it's conceivable that someone might have supported that thinking they could keep their HSA.
They were "touting" removing underwriting, removing lifetime claim caps, limiting deductibles, and so on. So you're having to argue that people were retarded and didn't know that expensive features, that their agent probably offered to them, are actually expensive. You hate the gov't dicking around with private contracts (I don't like it either) so much you're willing to promote arguments that defy common sense: "You mean those extra features politicians touted actually cost money? No!?"
It's a scandal because the President has been saying if you like your plan you can keep it, when it was not a surprise to them that likely 50% of plans were going to go away under the new regs. Yeah, this is some kind of scandal. It's a scandal the news media wasn't immediately hammering him on this because as you say, everyone in the business KNEW this was a huge lie, and it was conveniently not reported until after an election.
I think what he meant was most plans would go on the same, but they would have to meet the minimum requirements. So in the politicians' minds, my plan is a new-and-improved (and more expensive) version of exactly what I had.
When they were working on this they were going to outlaw HSAs altogether. I told my Congresswoman, my plan would be radically changed if they took away the HSA component. Eventually they dropped the HSA requirement. I tried to get them to drop other requirements, making them optional. That didn't happen. Anyone paying attention knew this. I don't buy the indignation. It's political.
You're excusing blatant lies as par for the course...that is a level of acceptance. Are you serious? "Transitioning" to another plan is NOT THE SAME PLAN...and IT'S NOT WHAT THE BUYER CHOSE! Which is what he promised over and over and over again. Stop accepting lies from a President.
Next time a politician tells you he can get you more for the same price, you'll read the fine print. Of course I'm joking. We both know you weren't fooled. Everyone knows the plan wouldn't create goods and services out of thin air. "Oh but when he said 'you can keep your current plan' I thought that mean at the same price despite the new mandates that he was touting!" LMAO
"If you like your plan you can keep your plan". That is what he said. No mention of new mandates or increased coverage. The old plans should have been grandfathered in as they were written. The plan all along was to get rid df these policies Lying is not spinning.
There was mention of mandates and increased coverage. They were central selling points.
I see what you're saying about grandfathering. Someone could have interpreted it as meaning cheap plans (like what I had and wanted) would be grandfathered in. That would have been hard for the insurance industry to accommodate b/c of the influx of people who are already sick w/o raising premiums on the healthy. It would have been "fairer" though to consumers who've been paying their premiums month after month without making a claim.
I never thought about the grandfather idea. I knew it wasn't like that b/c I followed it in the papers and talked to my Congresswoman, who was somewhat involved. It's conceivable someone could have interpreted those words to mean a grandfather provision.
My gut feeling is most people understood and wanted it this way.
I had a friend who struggled with drug addiction on and off. I've lost touch with her; I hope she's clean. She once told me she had this one parks job that provided uniforms, on-site housing, meals, and insurance. She loved that job b/c when she falls off the wagon she pours all her money into alcohol and drugs. This was the only job where she could do that and still maintain her basic necessities. She was happier when off drugs and able to manage her own life. I feel like the US is slipping a little bit toward the drug addict mode: "I'll work. In exchange you provide my basic needs and a little bit of money left over that I can blow. I can't take charge of my life." That's *really* bad. I hope it's just my imagination. Even though I think PPACA does more good than harm and solved some real problems, that helpless attitude is a huge problem.
We were already playing with drug addict mode. Obamacare just solidifies and makes it much more likely and possible for the generation coming up to be dependent on it. I don't think the average consumer "thought" anything about what was being said. They blindly follow & believe whatever they are told, that's why are in this position. There has always been a significant portion of the population that wanted to be taken care of. Combine that with another significant portion that have not been taught how to think and don't want to think and you can see how we get these people like Obama in charge.
Same with economics in general. People don't think it matters so they listen to whatever they are told. and/or they are not educated enough to understand basic economics. The health care law is a good example of supply and demand. The president has tried to say that when we get more coverage, costs will be lower. This is an obvious fallacy! When you provide more coverage for more people costs will inevitably go up. More demand (more coverage) of a particular product = higher cost. Period. I love how they always bring in the subsidy issue and how so many people will be helped by that. That is ONLY available if you do not have a valid plan available. Many of us it's just that it will now cost more. So we have to take the more expensive plan and we DON'T get a subsidy... We are being transformed into serf society where we are serfs... Another generation and there will be little to no middle class....or...
Actually... I think once all the costs kick in and the system begins to collapse we are heading for something much like the collapse envisioned in Atlas Shrugged..
"you can see how we get these people like Obama in charge." I voted for him, so I definitely understand how he got to be in office. "When you provide more coverage for more people costs will inevitably go up." Yes, and there are more treatments available, so more opportunities to spend money on healthcare. "We are being transformed into serf society where we are serfs... Another generation and there will be little to no middle class....or..." Yes, but I think that's happening without regard to policy. It seems to me that the low wealth disparity we had in the post-WWII period was the anomaly. Maybe the middle class shrinks and grows. I do not have a formula to grow it. My point is that no one had to engineer and transformation. Wealth disparity comes and goes without any transformation effort.
I hope you're wrong about a collapse. . There's a human tendency to imagine an apocalypse is coming that will destroy everything but pave the way for a better world. I cannot know that; I hope the problems don't go to that level.
You actually got to talk to a Congressperson? How much did that cost? Mine is so hard to contact I gave up. AR did a great job of forcasting the future and never gets the credit she deserves. (Sorry this was for Circuit guys assertion he talked to a congressperson.)
It was Tammy Baldwin. I can't remember how much we donated that year, but we have never donated more than $250 at one event to anyone. She's smart and honest and probably open to non-donors. She's now our senator.
She had made healthcare overhaul part of her campaign, but she seemed disappointed she didn't get a bigger role in the legislation process.
I told her it was important to keep HSA-compatible plans; otherwise workers get a tax credit for giving money to corporations but not for saving their own money. She seemed moved by that argument. I also suggested that term insurance works for life insurance, and something similar might work for health insurance. They were so far down the no-underwriting path, that my suggestion was moot by that point. Plus I sensed she disagreed with me on this issue. That makes sense b/c she represented the Madison area, which is more fiscally liberal than I am.
Oddly, I now think they may have been right to eliminate underwriting b/c many illnesses are predictable individuals and not akin to a flood or a safe driver having a freak accident.
What he meant to say and what he said are two different things. He purposefully misled people. An easy task these days but people should be upset and outraged by this.
Rich, I think that implies that people are actually paying attention. Look at this group, how many people are members? A teeny tiny number compared to the population. There is a vast sea of people who, for various reasons, either don't have time to care, just don't care, or are not smart enough to care. They think things will continue to go one as normal and only the price of a Big Mac will ever change. Ever since Pelosi held a gun to everyones head and forced this crap down our throats, it has been a train wreck worthy of Taggart Tunnel.
Anyway, this is fundamental to the plan. They're making plans cover extra things. People can't expect that to be free. It blows my mind that you can turn this into a scandal.
I can see where you were not expecting this from your choice for the Leader of our Republic. You knew exactly what you were getting....
The rest of us are outraged.
All of my friends wanted him back in Chicago, pounding the streets for ACORN.
1-Obama said many times if you like your plan you can keep your plan.
2-He knew all along that 40 to 60 per cent would lose their plans.
This isn't typical spinning. These are outright lies to force a socialistic health care plan thru.
They were "touting" removing underwriting, removing lifetime claim caps, limiting deductibles, and so on. So you're having to argue that people were retarded and didn't know that expensive features, that their agent probably offered to them, are actually expensive. You hate the gov't dicking around with private contracts (I don't like it either) so much you're willing to promote arguments that defy common sense: "You mean those extra features politicians touted actually cost money? No!?"
When they were working on this they were going to outlaw HSAs altogether. I told my Congresswoman, my plan would be radically changed if they took away the HSA component. Eventually they dropped the HSA requirement. I tried to get them to drop other requirements, making them optional. That didn't happen. Anyone paying attention knew this. I don't buy the indignation. It's political.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon
I see what you're saying about grandfathering. Someone could have interpreted it as meaning cheap plans (like what I had and wanted) would be grandfathered in. That would have been hard for the insurance industry to accommodate b/c of the influx of people who are already sick w/o raising premiums on the healthy. It would have been "fairer" though to consumers who've been paying their premiums month after month without making a claim.
I never thought about the grandfather idea. I knew it wasn't like that b/c I followed it in the papers and talked to my Congresswoman, who was somewhat involved. It's conceivable someone could have interpreted those words to mean a grandfather provision.
My gut feeling is most people understood and wanted it this way.
I had a friend who struggled with drug addiction on and off. I've lost touch with her; I hope she's clean. She once told me she had this one parks job that provided uniforms, on-site housing, meals, and insurance. She loved that job b/c when she falls off the wagon she pours all her money into alcohol and drugs. This was the only job where she could do that and still maintain her basic necessities. She was happier when off drugs and able to manage her own life. I feel like the US is slipping a little bit toward the drug addict mode: "I'll work. In exchange you provide my basic needs and a little bit of money left over that I can blow. I can't take charge of my life." That's *really* bad. I hope it's just my imagination. Even though I think PPACA does more good than harm and solved some real problems, that helpless attitude is a huge problem.
Same with economics in general. People don't think it matters so they listen to whatever they are told. and/or they are not educated enough to understand basic economics. The health care law is a good example of supply and demand. The president has tried to say that when we get more coverage, costs will be lower. This is an obvious fallacy! When you provide more coverage for more people costs will inevitably go up. More demand (more coverage) of a particular product = higher cost. Period. I love how they always bring in the subsidy issue and how so many people will be helped by that. That is ONLY available if you do not have a valid plan available. Many of us it's just that it will now cost more. So we have to take the more expensive plan and we DON'T get a subsidy... We are being transformed into serf society where we are serfs... Another generation and there will be little to no middle class....or...
Actually... I think once all the costs kick in and the system begins to collapse we are heading for something much like the collapse envisioned in Atlas Shrugged..
I voted for him, so I definitely understand how he got to be in office.
"When you provide more coverage for more people costs will inevitably go up."
Yes, and there are more treatments available, so more opportunities to spend money on healthcare.
"We are being transformed into serf society where we are serfs... Another generation and there will be little to no middle class....or..."
Yes, but I think that's happening without regard to policy. It seems to me that the low wealth disparity we had in the post-WWII period was the anomaly. Maybe the middle class shrinks and grows. I do not have a formula to grow it. My point is that no one had to engineer and transformation. Wealth disparity comes and goes without any transformation effort.
I hope you're wrong about a collapse. . There's a human tendency to imagine an apocalypse is coming that will destroy everything but pave the way for a better world. I cannot know that; I hope the problems don't go to that level.
She had made healthcare overhaul part of her campaign, but she seemed disappointed she didn't get a bigger role in the legislation process.
I told her it was important to keep HSA-compatible plans; otherwise workers get a tax credit for giving money to corporations but not for saving their own money. She seemed moved by that argument. I also suggested that term insurance works for life insurance, and something similar might work for health insurance. They were so far down the no-underwriting path, that my suggestion was moot by that point. Plus I sensed she disagreed with me on this issue. That makes sense b/c she represented the Madison area, which is more fiscally liberal than I am.
Oddly, I now think they may have been right to eliminate underwriting b/c many illnesses are predictable individuals and not akin to a flood or a safe driver having a freak accident.