Reason Applied to Immigration

Posted by mshupe 6 months, 3 weeks ago to History
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An excerpt: "Here’s something else that everyone knows: While a regime of no immigration quotas was a boon to America’s economy in the past, eliminating now the immigration quotas that have been in place since the 1920s would wreak havoc on America’s economy. In this knowledge, however, I believe that what everyone knows is incorrect."
SOURCE URL: https://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2023/10/can-america-absorb-more-immigrants/


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    Posted by $ AJAshinoff 6 months, 3 weeks ago
    The elephant in the room is assimilation. Too many are coming without any desire to become a citizen, only a suckling pig on the teet of out gluttonous foolishness.

    There are areas here in Phoenix where store signs are in Spanish and schools where the population is 97% Mexican. Down around Tucson there are highway signs in metric.

    I’ll read the article shortly but that needed to be said. It’s a damn able thing to feel like a foreigner in your own city.
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    • Posted by mccannon01 6 months, 3 weeks ago
      You don't have to go to Tucson to experience living in a foreign country. Living in Western NY I've gone into stores where English is the second language and I'm guessing I'm the only one at the checkout counter that didn't have a welfare card. Likewise, even 15 years ago I had a contract at a factory outside Atlanta where nobody but management spoke English. As I designed operator interfaces I had to have a translator help me place in the Spanish verbiage - NONE of these people were encouraged to learn English or assimilate into America like past immigrants. They don't have to. I have to say the folks working in the factory seemed like nice people and at least they were working.
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      • Posted by 6 months, 3 weeks ago
        For what its worth, I grew up in Western New York, and of my high school friends, the ones who stayed are the most shallow. One of them has two master's degrees in education, is collecting a teacher's pension, and is also on welfare. After a career with two investment banks, she considers me an expert in finance, and only wanted to know how to apply for more government assistance. That was financial knowledge to her. Other areas of the People's State of New York are equally depressed, economically and intellectually. Immigrants have nothing to do with it.
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        • Posted by mccannon01 6 months, 3 weeks ago
          If you are saying immigrants have nothing to do with the great welfare nanny state you are correct, but it is one heluva magnet for looters of all stripes - home grown and foreign. My post above is meant to illustrate that the latest wave of immigrants don't have to assimilate into America because America is contorting itself to assimilate into them. Being in the winter of my lifespan I almost don't give a damn. Almost. The younger generations are voting for what they are getting.
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          • Posted by 6 months, 3 weeks ago
            In that vein, it is putrid that the "sanctuary cities" are spending a nickel on housing and other benefits. I'm all for liberal immigration rules for anyone who desires independence, but no one owes anyone (except parents to their young children) a damn thing.
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            • Posted by CaptainKirk 6 months, 3 weeks ago
              nevermind Sanctuary cities.
              Cities across the country are receiving these people, and groups are being FUNDED to provide housing for them. The public School system MUST take the kids.

              15 Years ago, when my daughter was in 1st grade, she was placed at a table that had a translator for one of the kids... It was distracting her, and she HATED it. (Kid went to University at 14)... She stopped wanting to go to school.

              The teacher put her there because she could AFFORD to fall behind. LOL. Everyone made to suffer.

              I said. Put the translator in the furtherest corner of the room. Or Move our daughter, but this stops here...

              So accommodating... We will let our best suffer...
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            • Posted by mccannon01 6 months, 3 weeks ago
              The only taxpayer funding I would go along with is when illegals are captured at the border they are given a flight to Guantanamo Bay, NOT anywhere else in the country. From there they are free to immigrate to Cuba (no fence or gate needed at the camp) or go back to their home country - expense for that deducted from any "aid" to said country and they will never be eligible for legal immigration to the USA. People that are all fired up to help these illegals are free to donate to charitable aide to improve operations and conditions of Guantanamo. No US sanctuary cities required. Those filing for asylum can do so from Guantanamo.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 6 months, 3 weeks ago
      The author simplistically also ignores
      1) the percentage of people in PRODUCTIVE employment has declined precipitously, that is, NOT EMPLOYED BY GOVERNMENT OR WASTEFULLY EMPLOYED ONLY TO PUSH PAPER TO GOVERNMENT AGENCIES.
      2) a much larger percentage of GDP is being thrown away on neocon overseas misadventures, leaving much less for productive purposes, e.g., repairing and replacing infrastructure
      3) the result of recent unlimited immigration is good only for the wealthy (and their paid propagandists, pet politicians, "experts", and "consultants") and very bad for those who were barely able to survive in mid to lower level employment which has been handed over to illegal invaders who work for much less (and live in slumlord rentals) as long as they aren't reported to INS.
      The authors statistics are irrelevant when the effects on the "average American" is a decline in living standards and increasing debt slavery.
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      • Posted by 6 months, 3 weeks ago
        Although shallow minds use caps to overcome their lack of clear thinking, this lack of coherence is also proven by the productive employment comment. The body of work and scholarship produced by the author of this article is beyond reproach, especially compared to the simpleton using caps in this thread. The infrastructure comment using GDP as the metric is further evidence of his economic inadequacy. Lastly, the immigration comment is just icing on the turd. I suggest Julian Simon's work titled The Ultimate Resource, Ludwig von Mises Human Action, and Donald Boudreaux's blog for meaningful ideas to replace this gibberish.
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        • Posted by GaltsGulch 6 months, 3 weeks ago
          If you can't figure out how to debate these issues with civility mshupe, we'll have to let you go. Last warning.
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          • Posted by 6 months, 3 weeks ago
            Thanks, fair enough. For what it's worth, civility is a continuum. In that vein, the comment to which I replied is loaded with uncivil comments, "simplistically ignores" and "immigration only good for the wealthy" and "author's statistics irrelevant" and "illegal invaders." On top of that, the comment is loaded with rationalizations that are an indirect attack on reason and logic, values to which this site is dedicated. I merely recycled the same language and added more intellectual heft to the conversation.
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    • -1
      Posted by 6 months, 3 weeks ago
      I think you're right about assimilation. It is irrational to evade important customs that improve one's ability to learn and be productive. However, there is one primary value that drives that; something of which most American citizens are ignorant. There is one primary virtue that identifies Americans.
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 6 months, 3 weeks ago
    "...The worry is that too many immigrants would come not to work, but to free-ride on American taxpayers. In a later column I’ll explain why I believe this worry to be an unpersuasive reason to oppose the elimination of immigration quotas..."

    I will be interested to read his followup to his quote in view of Milton Friedman's quote "...A decade ago, Nobel prize-winning economist Milton Friedman admonished the Wall Street Journal for its idée fixe on open-border immigration policy. "...It's just obvious you can't have free immigration and a welfare state," he warned. This remark adds insight to the current debate over immigration in the U.S. Senate..."

    reported here https://www.heritage.org/immigration/...
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 6 months, 3 weeks ago
    You can't discuss, rationally, illegal immigration without taking about national sovereignty, citizenship, or private property. To condone unmetered, unregulated illegal immigration erases the border, neuters lawfulness, and strips ownership of land and possessions of individual citizens.

    I had a lot of cyclical discussions with Dale over this topic and we parted in disagreement each time. Landowners in an area bind together by agreement to make a town. Towns bins together by agreement to make counties. Counties bind together via agreement to make a state. States bind together to make a nation. Without private ownership of individuals in full none of the structures of the above can exist. It is just that simple.

    Sure, you can never truly own land. Still, you can own it for the 100 years you live ion this earth and you can pass it down to your kids. Shall we scrap that too?
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    • Posted by Lucky 6 months, 3 weeks ago
      AJA - yes.
      I remember the Hallings well, Dale and his wife ..
      That was how long ago? 5 or 10 years. They made a great contribution to the Gulch.

      Dale argued well, especially on open borders. This was perhaps the only area I disagreed with him on. I suggested I was close to agreement provided he got the welfare state abolished first.
      My position now is more rigid, it is not just a question of providing benefits which are rationally evaluated by immigrants, there has to be some basic level of cultural agreement for populations to live intermingled.
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  • Posted by tutor-turtle 6 months, 3 weeks ago
    My grand parents, on both sides, immigrated to the US about 110 years ago.
    At that time, You must:
    > Be sponsored.
    > Have no Criminal record
    > Have no Diseases
    > Must not be a financial burden on the state for a period of at least five years.
    During those five years, your sponsor was fully and legally responsible for your actions. Financial, legal and criminal.
    Every six months or so you had to report to the local police station to ensure where you lived where you say you live, that there was not wants or warrants out on you, that you were financially self-sufficient.
    In the 1950's, when it became clear to President Eisenhower that these rules were not being followed (for what ever economic reason employers were abusing the immigrants for) He initiated a mass deportation of people here not following the rules, including those sneaking over the border.
    At what point did the rules stop being followed?
    I seem the remember in 1965, a certain drunken Senator named Ted Kennedy was instrumental in violating one of the most sacred principles: ensuring whom ever came to this country, benefited this country.
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  • Posted by nonconformist 6 months, 3 weeks ago
    Allow me to criticize all of the sides in this. I don't think anybody understands what is going on.

    1. The financial repression by the "state" is causing "natives" to have small or no families (can't afford it). This is causing the population to die out. Immigration is a way to replenish it. The state is predating on the population and replenishing it with immigration.

    2. It is true that people on welfare are receiving income taken by force from someone else. I believe this is wrong. On the other hand, the financial repression is so high that even if the immigrants were productive, they would be unable to make it. One has to feed the pig before slaughtering it. Later generations of these immigrants would die out due to the financial repression that is destroying the current native population.

    3. There is no need to have quotas or frivolous conditions. There are only some specific factors should be considered, like whether or not the immigrant is productive (produces more than they consume) and is law abiding/non-predatory. If accepting unlimited number of that type of immigrants makes the community prosper then why not do it? Who cares about culture? I thought America was about freedom and prosperity. Concepts like language, culture and ethnicity are a tool of the authoritarians of the "old world".

    4. It is a bit hypocritical of Americans to impose immigration limits while their ancestors where unwelcome immigrants themselves, if you asked the natives at the time. In my humble opinion, one does not have the right to prevent another law abiding productive person from trying to make a life for themselves in a particular geographical area.
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  • Posted by term2 6 months, 3 weeks ago
    Just take away the goodies ;free hotel rooms, food, and medical care and immigration will return to only people who want to come here to make it onbtheirnowb
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 months, 3 weeks ago
    REASON? Surely you jest, . . . sorry didn't mean to call you Surely.

    Today's (illegal) Immigrants are no match for yesterdays (Legal/illegal) Immigrants for the most part. There was no: "Gimmy, I need" back in those days.
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    • Posted by 6 months, 3 weeks ago
      The title of this post refers to Donald Boudreaux's comments on today's immigration debate. He cites evidence to counter some of the rationalizations.
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      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 months, 3 weeks ago
        I know, but today's Leftist politics is the problem. I don't know what the time period and learning needed to achieve citizenship these days but I am sure the left ignores them to bring down our country. We see that with the lack of vetting concerning today's Border Jumpers. Not to mention the drug and child trafficking creatures.

        Did we have border jumpers back then? probably . . . Did we have criminals escaping to our country back then? Probably; but probably not as pervasive as it is today, I bet.

        Today, there is No where to escape to for freedom from the demented creatures on this planet.
        Stay where you're at and fight to save the country you live in, These illegal immigrants are not helping us save the country, they are hurting our chances to save the country.

        Politics and demented ideology always makes things worse.

        PS, sorry again, for calling you Surely. LOL
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        • Posted by 6 months, 3 weeks ago
          The Leslie Nielsen joke is "don't call me Shirley," but I think it's a mistake to blame this on politics. That's too vague, and destructive politics is downstream from destructive ideology, as you say. In that regard, its best to know what the ideology hopes to achieve. It is the destruction of America, not the federal government, but the Enlightenment principles of its founding documents.
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          • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 months, 3 weeks ago
            I know but it's funnier spelling the word one intended and not what it sounded like.

            The 10,000 foot view shows us that it is those very principles that are a danger to them in the next cycle. They wish to make sure those ideas never crop up again in some archeological dig in the distant future. No books of Enoch, no Noah, No Abraham, Isic or Jacob; No Plato, no Loche or Jefferson and all inbetween to awaken the offspring of survivors from this cycle.
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            • Posted by 6 months, 3 weeks ago
              For what its worth, among your list, only the great work and ideas of John Locke are primary to Americanism. By far, the greatest one missing is Aristotle. On top of that, today's destroyers are neo Platonists.
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              • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 months, 3 weeks ago
                Yes, those were the "INBETWEEN" because a fading memory plaques oldugly these days . . . too many tabs open is likely and not dementia.

                Agreed on today's Platonist . . . they know Not the "mob rule" feature in demonocracy or what others have called the "Voting for MORE Bread and Circus".
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  • Posted by Rex_Little 6 months, 3 weeks ago
    The big problem, as I see it, is that the ethnic enclaves have grown so large that it's overwhelmingly likely that a child of immigrants will be raised in one. That means (s)he won't have culturally American peers and community leaders, therefore won't grow up to be culturally American.

    In my experience, children of immigrants who don't grow up in ethnic enclaves do turn out just as American as those whose families were here for generations. I personally know several such.
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  • Posted by 6 months, 3 weeks ago
    Before everyone gets their panties in a wad over "illegal immigration," it may be best to correct the horrid bureaucracy of legal immigration.
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