Significant questions about Tyre Nichols arrest circumstances remain. Cops' bodycam clips lifted out of context?

Posted by bubah1mau 1 year, 1 month ago to News
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All the bodycam clips and other footage I've seen fail to show events leading up to Nichols being pulled out of his car. Was there a highspeed car chase prior to that, and was Nichols shooting at the officers any time before the chase ensued? Was a weapon displayed or found at the scene, or thrown out of a window during a chase? Reminds me entirely of the Chauvin case where no one picked up on Floyd gulping down a handful of drugs while the initially arresting cops approached the vehicle he was in, and was his ingestion of drugs communicated to Chauvin at any time during the confrontation? If not, Chauvin should have been convicted of no more than manslaughter.
SOURCE URL: https://www.foxnews.com/us/tyre-nichols-arraignment-date-set-5-ex-memphis-police-officers-charged-fatal-beating


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  • Posted by ampeng 1 year, 1 month ago
    Having been an LAPD officer for over 30 years I know that the situation is far more complicated than it first appears but the story is usually manipulated to further a groups goals regardless of the truth. This looks very bad and maybe it is but the whole story should be told. Police work is often violent and “not pretty”. It about gaining compliance. While no force is the goal and minimum reasonable and necessary force is the law we are human beings with all the inherent flaws. It is often difficult when you see what you see the suspect do to victims , or he is attempting to shoot or hurt you to have complete control over your emotions. Yes you are trained and paid for that but just because you struggle with that does mean you have evil intent. While I am not saying that it applies in this case at all , if the standard is perfection you will see very few getting in line , which of course is already happening. Officers breaking the law should be dealt with harshly and swiftly but the suspects should be as well. The cities worry about consequences of the optics and fail miserably in the decisions then made. Unintentionally creating an environment for chaos. I am afraid it will continue to get worse. Rational people will move away from chaos and lawlessness. Demonize law enforcement at your own peril as enforcing the law by individual police officers is largely voluntarily. The young ones are already figuring out to drive slow, keep you eyes “closed”. And do only what you absolutely have to. So sad and so predictable. I have very little faith after the last election and failed recall efforts in California that it will turn anytime soon. Taking my pension and heading to anther state. Shrugging
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    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
      While I agree in general, five cops, and one 150 lb guy, doesn't even take one hand from each to subdue. Unless he had a gun (and very likely deserved to go), there is zero excuse. I don't need to see any more "exculpatory" evidence.

      Some cops have a tough job. My experience with many (albeit suburban ones) is that at least 50% of them are just bullies. Some a law-abiding bullies, but they are bullies, and by the way, the profession with the highest percentage of domestic violence.

      Not sure how to get back to the old Irish flatfoots, who were friends of the neighborhood, but "Scorpion Patrol" as certainly NOT it.
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      • Posted by ampeng 1 year, 1 month ago
        Not commenting on this case at all but to think 5 cops and one bad guy is an automatic easy arrest is completely misinformed. While many times true I have seen 150 pound man on PCB throw around many big cops and not react at all when any pain compliance is used. Again not commenting on this case the suspect is in control of how the situation goes by complying or not. Police officers , correctly so, have very strict rules to follow and the suspect does not. I am in no way justifying bad or illegal behavior and I want to see cops committing illegal behavior punished appropriately however think about this , albeit extreme. A suspect comes up to you and your partner , shoots your partner in the head and immediately drops his weapon and puts his hands up to surrender. What can you do? You place handcuffs on him, search him, and bring him to transport. What would your emotions be telling you, what would you want to do? Before you get excited I am not justifying any bad behavior it just needs to be recognized that it can be extremely difficult. Revenge is a very strong and reasonable reaction/emotion, I would say a very necessary component that is programmed in our genetics. Think of almost every movie with an underdog or victim and how it is written for the audience to feel better when things are evened out. In society we have attempted to resolve or solve this with representatives , law enforcement, and a criminal court system but it is still in our genetics. Easy to ignore or dismiss when your logical and not involved. 30 years on the streets of Los Angeles have provided thousands of examples of human behaviors that are all very predictable and humanly understandable. One more time I will say I am not commenting here on this incident or in any way justifying illegal or even unethical behavior.
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        • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
          There was a case of a guy on PCP on the steering and diving station on a submarine. No idea what he weighed, but it took a bunch of guys to get him out of there.

          BTW, I am totally ok with a cop shooting the guy who shot his partner... actually anyone who shoots someone's friend. I was never a police officer, but been in a pile of fights as a youth. Can't remotely imagine any 150 lb guy not being a flesh pretzel with two of me on him. Five? Well, we'll see how this turns out.

          In any case it is great to see a well-spoken, well-reasoned, retired policeman here in the Gulch! Speak up more!
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    • Posted by mccannon01 1 year, 1 month ago
      "...that does mean you have evil intent." I expect you meant "...that doesn't mean you have evil intent."

      Thanks for taking the time to post this and good luck with your move and shrug!
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    • Posted by $ pixelate 1 year, 1 month ago
      I appreciate your detailed reply -- from the up close and personal perspective. The career of being a police officer is far afield of my capabilities and I am grateful that there are still individuals that make this their profession. My best friend left the Dept of Corrections in Washington State after serving for 26 years. He is now working here in Southern Arizona - four years at this point as an effective Real Estate Agent (I've already moved three properties using his services). He really only became aware of the level of toxicity in the DOC after being out of it for a couple of years. I wish you all the best on your transition into the next chapter of your life.
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  • Posted by mhubb 1 year, 1 month ago
    based on what i saw, Chauvin was following the training he was given

    he should have had enough sense, however, to not sit on a guy asking for help, that was cuffed

    Police NEED to understand that the optics of what they are doing can be really, really bad.

    the beating that Nichols took was 100% unacceptable, he was cuffed and under control

    what happened to Floyd was his own fault, drugs

    what happened to Nichols was caused by those 5 "officers"
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    • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 1 month ago
      Chauvin was railroaded. Floyd was a known addict. Floyd had just swallowed his dealer's onboard stash of Fentanyl and died from an overdose. It just happened to be while in police custody. If you go back and look, however, the dealer was never charged though he should have been charged with possession, possession with intent to distribute, and second-degree manslaughter.
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    • Posted by 1 year, 1 month ago
      I agree that the beating was unacceptable but I'd still like to see what led up to the clips I've seen. Something must have enraged those cops. I can't believe people just start beating on someone with no reason at all. At a bare minimum, my guess is that he didn't promptly respond to their sirens and lights to get him to stop and pull over--and there may have been more to it than that.
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  • Posted by ampeng 1 year, 1 month ago
    And also a very high suicide rate. In general do what you can to support the police as to do anything else will lead to unimaginable chaos. Currently in LA where salaries and benefits are actually very good we can not get enough applicants to cover attrition. They have lowered standards to a level you would not believe just to get bodies into the academy and it will predictably come back to haunt us in a few years. The current force is becoming after the fact report takers only. Why would you even conduct a traffic stop these days, esp a white office stopping a black motorist. Even though 99 % of the time all would behave well why take the risk , no upside. I called much of this about 8 years ago as it was obvious and I would like to be wrong but it will be getting much worse in our big cities if we don’t enforce the law with appropriate consequences. It has all become so political and it will be the poor and those not able to move away from trouble that will pay the consequences. No one ever puts the numbers in context. The number of encounters without any use of force etc etc. What other job demands absolute perfection with no error , often with little time to make the decision, with such high consequences ( life, freedom, financail ) and all the while you are filmed while doing it for people to sit back in the safety of their couch editorializing. Often with little knowledge of the law or legal procedures involved or the countless other constraints and pressures. Believe it or not it is often other cops that are the worst critics. I am afraid in the near future the only people that will stand in line to enter law enforcement will be those you would not want in that position. What I find so ironical is the very thing many want to accuse cops of, racial profiling etc etc is exactly what they are doing when they see a one or several cops doing something illegal - they are all bad. How many times have I been accused of stopping someone just because they are black, because all of us in blue are the same as well. White officers today in general , and I know many in other big cities, are doing there best to avoid policing anyone black, with predictable consequences coming. One more time I am not commenting on this current alleged crime just in general.
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    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 1 month ago
      I think you responded to the original, not my comment.

      We should totally support real police, but require real standards. Half of them are bullies and tax collectors now. Our town has some real good ones. We are in rural suburbia, but have had two nasty murders in the last ten years. The cops here, will help you push a car if broken down. They will give you a jump start. They are at least very accommodating to residents for speeding tickets (not non residents, which is not my favorite behavior). Even when we are drinking at a public field at 9 pm after soccer, they cut us slack. And they handled those murders like pros. Tough ones.

      A guy seeking drugs killed his grandparents, mother and the grandparents care taker after they refused to drive him to NH to get drugs. The guy took all his cloths off, and wandered through the woods to my soccer buddies house, where he confessed, covered in blood. He held the guy there, and the police came and took care. Of course the State (tax collectors) Police came and took the limelight.
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  • Posted by tutor-turtle 1 year, 1 month ago
    Release the body cam footage, end-to-end.
    Only then can we see if the use of force was "excessive" or justified.
    Having lived on "the other side of the tracks" I have seen some tough SoB's who would not go quietly. They had to be beaten into submission before the cops could get them in the paddy wagon. Like it or lump it, that's life.
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  • Posted by ampeng 1 year, 1 month ago
    Society has to decide what it wants. I realize a number of police officers are very rough around the edges and don’t do a very good job of relating to the public. Often they don’t transition well between the actual “problem children” and the ordinary citizen who only committed a small infraction. That is very sad but when the shit really hits the fan and you need someone to help you by putting their life on the line for a complete stranger you won’t care if they were polite enough for you and you won’t mind if they are not too polite to the suspect either. You can’t pay someone enough to get in front of a bullet. In general we are over paid secretaries and baby sitters but when it gets real there is no amount of money to compensate, they do it because it is the right thing to do and necessary. As we get a glimpse of during these riot situations, the blue line is much much thinner than you really want to know. A very small number of people who disregard the law, and it is actually is a small number, even in “bad” neighborhoods, ruin it for the rest of us. I know in this forum I am mostly preaching to the choir but if we allow a small number of activists to dictate our policies we are going to get in worse trouble than we are now. It is all around us already and if you feel safe in any big city these days for you and your family you are living in a fantasy world. With the current exposure what intelligent person is going to go into law enforcement? They will feel the positions but with whom? LAPD along with others are contacting retirees and those that have left for other reasons and trying to get them to return. You want to guess how successful that has been? Only the young and naive join these days and that is a smaller number all the time as most are much more aware these days. I have always said give people what they(think) they want and watch how quickly they change their mind. If you made it this far, thank you for indulging my rant. Be safe
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  • Posted by ampeng 1 year, 1 month ago
    At the risk of being redundant and/or boring some here let me take one more run at what I mean regarding the human element. I am only speaking here regarding LAPD policy and training. When a critical incident occurs the analysis is systematic and incredibly thorough. It is only when politics become involved that things quickly go awry and I believe an officer can and will sacrificed for the expedience of placating the public, news media, or a politician. After a critical incident occurs, whether that is an OIS(officer involved shooting), in custody death, major use of force or potentially others, a whole team comes to the scene including the district attorney. Every detail is scrutinized from when and why you drew your weapon, where did you deploy, did you properly coordinate all possible resources, what conversion did you have with your partner prior to arrival regarding tactics, what deescalation strategies did you utilize, among others. Remember you don’t always know that a call is going to become a critical incident, sometimes you have a pretty good idea but most of the time you don’t. Every action you take is scrutinized and every single shot or strike with a baton must be deemed reasonable and necessary to effect the arrest. For example the baton strikes 1 through 3 could be deemed in policy and legal. Baton strike number 4 was deemed not necessary so you have violated policy and the law with a criminal punishment possible. My feeling is this is all excellent procedure and should be very transparent EVENTUALLY to the public. What do we do with the officer that lost a bit of control because he was mad and high on adrenaline because he just watched the suspect assault/kill a citizen or another officer and swung that 4th baton strike that was deemed not necessary. I am not talking about after the suspect is handcuffed or the incident is under control. But contemporaneously after the third. Do we send him for training? Do we fire him? Do we send him to jail for this excessive force? It is so complicated but the media fuels the public and those with an agenda speak with authority on things they really know little about. The truth usually comes out in the end but an officers life could be completely destroyed by then. Everybody thinks they know the rules/law because we are inundated with it through movies and TV our entire lives but that framework is not anywhere close to reality. The importance is in the details. I am continuously amazed when asked ridiculous questions like ”why don’t they shoot the gun out of his hand or shoot him in the leg” by otherwise intelligent adults. When is anyone educated as to what their legal responsibility is as a citizen regarding police contact? Never, unless you had good parents but I guarantee people are “educated" all the time, often erroneously, about what the police can’t do. Wouldn’t the news media think it was their responsibility to explain the rules of engagement to the public. I know for a fact they have our policy manual and the penal code available.
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    • Posted by mccannon01 1 year, 1 month ago
      Again, thank you for taking the time to write these posts and share what you know through experience. I find them very interesting and informative, not boring or redundant at all.
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  • Posted by $ 25n56il4 1 year, 1 month ago
    I have to interject my five cents, for what it's worth! There is no excuse for a police officer to 'lose it' and use deadly force. Kicking a person in the head is deadly force. My X2 spent 20 years in the Army and 18 years in law enforcement. He never 'lost' it! But then he was a bit 'over trained'. In 18 years he went from nothing to Sgt, Lt. then Chief of more than one place. He was greatly respected by his officers and the citizens he served. He never even fired his gun while in law enforcement. George Floyd was his own worst enemy. He was a very, very large bodied person. He was given a good education, even went to law school but couldn't pass the exams. Wouldn't leave drugs alone and had a rap sheet as long as your arm. But even saying that he didn't deserve the kind of treatment he received. Three men were on top of him and the officer that put his knee on his neck was an instructor in that procedure. He knew better. He was trying to kill George.
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    • Posted by ampeng 1 year, 1 month ago
      I thank your son for his service and dedication. I am not sure what you mean when you say " he never even fired his gun while in law enforcement" Can I assume that you don't mean to imply those that have are somehow not good officers? Fortunately for him he never found himself in a situation that required the use of deadly force for I'm sure if he had been he would have protected himself and the citizens he served appropriately as trained. Unfortunately in custody deaths have occurred often with suspects on their stomachs most often because they are obese or under the influence of some drug. We have modified some of our training , long before the Floyd incident, to try and prevent these outcomes. With all due respect to make the assertion that the officer was trying to kill the suspect is wildly irresponsible unless you have some knowledge or proof as to his intent.
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      • Posted by $ 25n56il4 1 year, 1 month ago
        No No don't get the wrong idea. My husband was who I was talking about. He had a quirky sense of humor and was very quick. He only weighed 160 pounds and was 5'8". Most of our police officers weighed in at about 200. He was impressive and smart. He knew how to handle people drunk or sober. His partner was a shotgun in the back seat of his cruiser. when he was a Lt. with the County Sheriff's office.
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