13

Observations on FTX

Posted by $ mshupe 5 days, 3 hours ago to Philosophy
52 comments | Share | Flag

From the article - "The number of FTX creditors seeking restitution is estimated to be one million and nearly all of them are account holders. While government and media investigators try to sort out the money trails, there are two questions that deserve greater attention: 1) Why do so many people consider cryptocurrency to be an investment? 2) Why does the CEO of FTX appear morally self-satisfied with his behavior? Yet, two primary questions must be answered first: 1) How does one define ‘investment’? 2) How do we define a morally defensible code of conduct? Specifically, what are their attributes?"
SOURCE URL: https://markshupepjw.medium.com/on-the-causality-of-ftx-5306abfa07f3


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by mhubb 4 days, 22 hours ago
    crypto == modern day tulip bulbs
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 4 days, 21 hours ago
      I think that's true for most or all digital currencies not Bitcoin. The backbone of Bitcoin is blockchain, and only a true decentralized ledger gives crypto its identity.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by mhubb 4 days, 21 hours ago
        still has no real value

        i'm not going to trade food, ammo, or weapons for it
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ Thoritsu 4 days ago
          What real value does a dollar have?
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by mccannon01 3 days, 21 hours ago
            Now there's a good question. I suppose it has a value according to what buyers and sellers believe it has. I remember when $0.19 dollar could buy a loaf of bread so a dollar was worth about 5 loaves of bread. I was just in a store about an hour ago and saw a loaf of bread set at 4 bucks (I was shocked and called the missus over to see!) so now a dollar will buy about 1/4 loaf of bread - at least THAT bread. So it seems a dollar is still worth something even if it ain't much. I expect it's going to get a lot worse.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by $ Thoritsu 3 days, 21 hours ago
              Yep. I had a guy who worked for me at a shipyard a while ago (was a Cambodian navy captain before Khmer Rouge). He used to describe everything in . $1 was about one hamburger. It was illuminating to consider that metric. Could eat a long time on silly program waste.

              He was a cool guy. He wanted to leave. Another captain friend was going to stay. The each had ships, met in the middle of the ocean. Whoever wanted to stay, when to his friends ship. Whoever wanted to leave went to my buddies ship. His friend sailed back. He sailed to the Philippines, called back to Cambodia, and said: "Your ship is here. Come and get it." He eventually got to the US, and became an excellent electrical engineer. He had the distinction of being the youngest graduate ever from the Cambodian Naval Academy.

              Coincidentally, my brother's wife's father was the ambassador from Cambodia to the US before the Khmer Rouge took over. He just stayed here. Also an electrical engineer.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Dobrien 4 days, 19 hours ago
    To the socialist Canadian Teachers pension fund who lost $95 million, call your friend Justin Trudeau. Maybe he got some of those SBF donations.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 4 days, 19 hours ago
      Poetic Justice! Teacher's union leadership operates under the same moral code as FTX. The victims are the teachers, but they will be made whole through government redistribution.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by GaryL 4 days ago
    Other than the few fools who listened to the rich fat cats, Most of these big investors were chasing a "Get Rich Quick" scheme and deserve to lose.
    In this world of today we can't even trust our real cash deposited in our banks because the government can freeze it at will. If we all notice that our 401K investments have decreased by a minimum of 30-35% since this asswipe took office then ask yourselves where exactly did all that money disappear to? If you had $100K back when Trump left office I bet it is closer to $60K today. I call that the RAPE of the American citizen doing his/her best to be OK in retirement. The Democrats see that as a piggy bank like SS investments they now call Government funded entitlements like welfare.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by term2 4 days, 1 hour ago
    The attraction of crypto seems to be to avoid the wanton printing of us dollars, and to avoid being tracked by IRS. The people who are trying to avoid these things by putting money in another unbacked monetary system kind of deserve what happened.

    The dollar has no backing, so its not a store of value, but neither is crypto. I am not sure which is going to collapse first, but both will eventually become a disaster.

    Lenin said it best when he was asked how to bring doen capitalist societies- he said to destroy their money. He was right.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by tutor-turtle 3 days, 23 hours ago
    The Central Banks (CB) have been at war with crypto currency since the creation of Bitcoin. Now, they want to run their own scam by crashing the competition. If crypto is as bad as the CB makes it out to be, why would we trust their version?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 days, 3 hours ago
    FTX is perhaps the most egregious example of looting in world history. SBF is this era's "Ellsworth Toohey".
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 5 days, 2 hours ago
      I don't think either are true. Every department of the federal government is a far greater looter. SBF did not actively try to destroy independence and ambition. He had no concept of it. He didn't even know how Bitcoin works. Toohey was ambitious and wanted to own minds to destroy them. SBF was a useful idiot for a Toohey.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 days, 1 hour ago
        This was a not very well-veiled attempt by the government to use a company to destroy a non-fiat currency by making it appear to be something without value.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ 4 days, 22 hours ago
          To destroy which non-fiat currency? Aren't all currencies controlled by a central record keeping system fiat currencies - digital or otherwise?
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by $ jbrenner 4 days, 21 hours ago
            Most, but not all. Bitcoin technically is a currency, whereas all of the others are deemed securities that do indeed get tracked by federal regulators. The whole FTX fiasco was an attempt to get the value of Bitcoin (not the same as other crypto investments) down so that they would be in tighter control.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by mhubb 5 days ago
          it has no value
          unless people want it

          unlike food
          water
          guns
          ammo
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 days ago
            The value was supposed to be protecting one's wealth via a currency that was not subject to the "arbitrary whims of hidden,
            ugly little bureaucrats" (from Galt's speech in Atlas Shrugged)

            "So long as men, in the era of savagery,
            had no concept of objective reality and
            believed that physical nature was ruled
            by the whim of unknowable demons –
            no thought, no science, no production
            were possible. Only when men
            discovered that nature was a firm,
            predictable absolute were they able to
            rely on their knowledge, to choose their
            course, to plan their future and, slowly,
            to rise from the cave. Now you have
            placed modern industry, with its
            immense complexity of scientific
            precision, back into the power of
            unknowable demons – the unpredictable
            power of the arbitrary whims of hidden,
            ugly little bureaucrats. A farmer will not
            invest the effort of one summer if he's
            unable to calculate his chances of a
            harvest. But you expect industrial giants
            – who plan in terms of decades, invest in
            terms of generations and undertake
            ninety-nine-year contracts – to continue
            to function and produce, not knowing
            what random caprice in the skull of what
            random official will descend upon them
            at what moment to demolish the whole
            of their effort. Drifters and physical
            laborers live and plan by the range of a
            day. The better the mind, the longer the
            range. A man whose vision extends to a
            shanty, might continue to build on your
            quicksands, to grab a fast profit and run.
            A man who envisions skyscrapers, will
            not. Nor will he give ten years of
            unswerving devotion to the task of
            inventing a new product, when he knows
            that gangs of entrenched mediocrity are
            juggling the laws against him, to tie
            him,, restrict him and force him to fail,
            but should he fight them and struggle
            and succeed, they will seize his rewards
            and his invention..."

            The whole point of FTX was to make crypto investing the opposite of a "firm, predictable absolute".
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by $ Dobrien 4 days, 13 hours ago
              That and many little arrows to further the take down of humanity. As I said this story will continue to expose the evil and give illumination to their tactics . From this afternoon
              FTX Funded $18 Million Towards Research that Claimed that Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine Didn’t Work Against COVID
              By Joe Hoft
              Published November 21, 2022 at 1:30pm

              I would write the headline a little differently…
              FTX steals account owners money to fund the killing of as many humans as possible during the PlanDEMic
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by $ jbrenner 4 days, 6 hours ago
                Peer reviewed publications that I had quoted in a patent application just disappeared from the Internet due to FTX, Fauci, et al.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by $ 4 days, 6 hours ago
                  Wow! Can you disclose any of them?
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by $ jbrenner 4 days, 4 hours ago
                    There were quite literally 20-30 such articles. All had ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine in the title. The only way I could access them anymore was through Web of Science. Google completely scrubbed them, even after I had found several of them via Google.
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by $ Dobrien 4 days, 4 hours ago
                      Oh look here is some more FTX news
                      NEW - Sam Bankman-Fried, his parents, and FTX top execs built a $121 million property empire in the Bahamas over the past two years.
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by mccannon01 4 days, 4 hours ago
                      Somehow I'm not surprised at this. Did you try an alternative search engine?

                      Google is becoming worse than malware. I've tried scrubbing all Google items off my Apple laptop and it still bogs down my system. I run "Activity Monitor" to determine what tasks are active and there are times there are multiple versions of "GoogleSoftwareUpdate" burning up CPU time. I have NOT been able to find WTH schedules it to run so I can turn it off. I suspect other Google invasive theft-and-spy-ware is also running, but not leaving evidence and may be hiding behind something legitimate. I may be paranoid, but my laptop is suffering the slows and no apparent reason for it. My Apple desktop does not have this problem.
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by Andy 3 days, 11 hours ago
                      Are the people at Web of Science not in on it? Or is it just no one cares because that's a website only used by scientists?
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                      • Posted by $ jbrenner 3 days, 6 hours ago
                        Both are probably true. Web of Science is the digital access point for accessing the journal literature. While there are a couple of alternatives, they are far less complete. The databases that Web of Science archives are hosted by the publishers themselves, rather than a Google's copy.
                        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ jbrenner 2 days, 20 hours ago
        With a few pilfered billions, FTX bought off enough politicians to sway the US balance of power far enough that the return on investment for Democrat looters through Buydem giveaways would be astronomic. At the same time, SBF's parents write the legislation that will effectively eliminate Bitcoin along with the cryptocurrency copycats, and thereby gain even more control over otherwise independent producers.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ 5 days, 3 hours ago
    This is an excerpt from a book that is in the works. The FTX fraud fell into my lap and dovetails perfectly with several of its themes.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ pixelate 3 days, 4 hours ago
    I looked into Bitcoin back in 2011... interesting, but there was essentially 'nothing there' -- perhaps just a nice Ph.D dissertation having been implemented. As for what is an investment, I keep it simple: land, gold, silver. Sometimes these three move around -- buying silver at $4, selling at $35, buy land, sell land at 3x, buy more silver, arbitrage in gold, silver and the ratio. It can look like speculation; but underneath it all, is physical reality: land, gold, silver.

    As for FTX and these 'exchanges' - in particular this SBF character -- I saw a shifty schlub, lacking in self-awareness. Even more -- I saw a raft of lazy, mathematically-illiterate 'investors' ... does the word due-diligence mean anything to these louts? Fools and their money are soon parted. I hope some lessons were learned.

    As for why do so many people consider CC to be an investment?
    1. Most folks would like to identify as 'investors' instead of 'speculators' -- or 'gamblers.'
    2. They want to convince themselves that they hold 'something' instead of the distillate of 'hopium.'
    3. In reality, they are simply gambling to the extent of wishing for a Win instead of earning it.
    4. They want 'something for nothing' -- convince other schlubs to 'get in or miss the win' -- then, they liquidate their position to buy a lambo [at least that is both the hope and intention -- and to 'look smart'.]

    SBF is essentially a useful idiot... you know, he might have gotten away with it had he really been 'smart' -- and sold out a significant stake and vanished near the FTX high water mark. But no, his overwhelming messiah complex ('effective altruism' indeed), inflated by other schlubs (magazine publishers, celebrities, politicians, speculation shills...) guaranteed his downfall -- and the fall continues. This quickly unfolding disaster has been interesting to observe.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo