Careful my dear. My beloved brother in law who was a Major in the Army, killed in Viet Nam was Lithuanian! Don't start something! N

My Jewish Matron of Honor at my wedding spelled it for me. Her father was from Kiev. I have wondered why all the different spellings lately and just figured maybe they were changing their name for some reason. My family was from the Alsace Lorraine Region (Ashkenasi). They came here long before Hitler came. My great grandfather (a Civil War Surgeon) was born in the District of Columbia. His home was in Maryland. He came to Texas in the 1830's.

Thanks. Your response brings to light another anomaly of language and that is the name of Ukraine's capitol. I was brought up using Kiev (pronounced Kee-ev - two syllables) and now it's Kyiv (I think pronounced Keeve - one syllable - I'll take a correction on that). As an example Peking became Beijing over the years.

"since it was pointed out to me it is incorrect"
= I agree and we should correct people when they are incorrect. It is not a "phrase", it is the name of the country. To call it anything else is disrespectful and insulting. (Your relative grew up in the Soviet times when everything was russified.)

Relax? I just got back from Kyiv, a friend's apartment in Kyiv was missiled day 2. I met with families from Mariupol and I was in Irpin after the atrocities. Tough to "relax: when an obvious russian sympathizer quotes BS.
.
Your technical correction is correct. I did not call it "the ukraine" though. Like you said "the England of the 1900's" would be the same to http://me.to be the same statement. I would not be calling England "the england"

No. Your statement would have been more technically correct if you used "Second: Ukraine of 2009-2013 is totally different than Ukraine after the Revolution..." you also make the error. Substitute another country such as England or France for Ukraine in your statement and the error becomes apparent. I'm just trying to point out in a friendly way many of us make the same error, even you.

I grew up in a city in Western NY. My sister in law is 100% Ukrainian and is first generation American as her parents and grandparents emigrated in the late '40s. She and her brothers and sisters have referred to Ukraine as "the Ukraine" many times in conversation just as we very often refer to United States as "the United States". It's not a big deal and offering a polite correction of usage is fine, but chastising people for the error is over the top. Relax.

Personally, I haven't used the phrase "the Ukraine" for a long time since it was pointed out to me it is incorrect. I'm sure the change will catch on as time goes by.

the Ukraine of that time would be correct ... it is not referring to the country as "the ukraine" ... Jut as I would say the France of 2022 or the muscovy of 1200.

I did NOT slip in any way ....

Again I linked as to why the statement 'the ukraine" is incorrect. It is a MAJOR sore spot for Ukrainians. https://www.google.com/search?q=why+i...

What was the area of your youth (BTW I am 65)

F-Y-I I'm 70 years old and in the days of my youth in my area Ukraine was always referred to as "the Ukraine". We know it isn't technically correct, but the phrase somehow slipped into the vernacular and is still with us.

For example, I notice in your statement "Second: Ukraine of 2009-2013 is totally different than the Ukraine after the Revolution..." I notice "the Ukraine" somehow snuck it's way in. Interestingly United States also starts with the letter U and it is often referred to as "the United States" in many places. At the same time I've never seen "the Uruguay" used anywhere. It's just one of those things...

My take from the history lessons and personal accounts of Polish and Ukrainian friends tells me: The Neo Nazi's are real, the corruption and money laundering is real, the Bio labs are real and The Russian Army lending aid to displaced Ukrainians is real...so, in a long shot and other backup info about hilteries server, I tend to favor the Information you supplied Brother...time will tell and the truth will be obvious when all the smoke clears...then we will have a more complete context of events.

https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/d... ... you can look up others if you'd like. But just ASSume the conspiracy theory about everything,

Calling you a conspiracy theorist after you quote conspiracy theories is not calling you names

no , that was a question

Another insult. Very objective of you.

In name only.

Now you use Politifact to correct me. Just keep calling me names.

so you dont KNOW anything, just what people tell you to believe?

Here is the conspiracy theorist i KNEW you were ...lol ...

Trafficking was bad in many of the FSU and Eastern European countries after the USSR fell apart. The women had little opportunity and the men were many times useless, so prostitution became rampant and a way to support families. that was a long time ago and many of those issues have changed.

(BTW in 1991 Epstein was with Towers Financial at that time.)

1991 is NOT 2014. Every assumption you make after 2014 is absolute unadulterated BS

To the best of my knowledge I don't believe Epstein going to the Ukraine AFTER 2014. I am not sure of before that.

You think the Revoltion of dignity was started by neo-nazis ...lol ... putler tell you that. Walk the streets and look at who the Heavenly Hundred are and you might have a different opionion. (Don't dare bring up Stone's; Putler sponsored propaganda "documentary")

I started going to Ukraine in 2014 ... I believed the people could not truly be free without jobs. Their desire to work and have better lives for their children enthralled me and reminded me of the America of my youth. Every Hryvnia made stays in country and is usued to finance other ideas. (Unlike the former oligrachs).

2104 is 8 years ago .. I average 6-10 trips per year and am Delta Diamond. The last trip went through Warsaw and a 14 hour overnight train ride to Kyiv.

!991 is NOT 2014. Every assumption you make after 2014 is absolute unadulterated BS.

Burisma was NOT Ukraine anymore than EXXON is the USA. It was a private corrupt company that was investigated by Ukraine after 2014. So your oil and gas conspiracy accusation against THE COUNTRY doesn't hold water.

Bio Labs? Do you have an issue with those OR should you have an issue with bio-WEAPONS labs. They are different things.

You finally played your colors ... lol ... lets have fun with Nuland - The conversation was in February of 2014 AFTER everyone knew YanukoBITCH was on his way out, Muscovy had similar conversations about who they wanted in place.

Funny thing, NO ONE that was in the Nuland conversation was elected. Poroschenko was not mentioned.

Another funny thing MAIDAN - The Revolution of Dignity - started in November, 3 monthe before the Nuland conversation. It was NOT a "color revolution", it was a protest started because YanukoBITCH went against his promises to turn towards Europe. The people were pissed. (YanukoBITCH's campaign packager was Paul Manfort.)

Now more fun with Barry. IF Barry started the revolution, why didnt he back his people when russia INVADED Ukraine shortly aferwards? He turned his back, (as did Brandon) which led to the current mess.

For your romney CONSPIRACY theory - I present this - believe what you want https://www.politifact.com/factchecks...

WTF does ANTIFA have to do with Ukraine ... lol

Reuter’s is a woke deep state fake news organization.

When I Quote others info I state it as such.

So you just pass things along without reading and analyzing? By passing it as factual YOU take ownership as well. Or you just take it as fact and pass it along?

As an example Ukraine and ru were rated identically in corruption for years, as I said, Ukraine is improving but far from perfect. (neither are we) Does CATO say that or is it negatively slanted?

If you notice CATO has been on the muscovy side during most of this. Look at all their info and see.They also tend to be isolationist n their stances.

The USA is not the only country assisting Ukraine. Why are those other countries helping (ie Poland, the Baltics, UK etc) any of those countries are giving a massive amount of aid.
The percentage of their defense budget. compared to the USA's being given. But they are all wrong and CATO is correct?

AGAIN, Have you been there? or do you just quote others info ?

Oh I forgot to mention this as well .. Must be russia protecting russian speaking Lithuainians?https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english...

Problem is Lithuania is in NATO, the coward doesn't dare.

In response to he Duma's potential actions on Lithuania, Kyiv passed this today (lol) " In response to the plans of the Russian Parliament to revoke Russia’s recognition of Lithuania’s Declaration of Independence from the USSR in 1991, the Kyiv City Council has cancelled the decree by Kyiv Rus Grand Prince Volodymyr of the founding of Moscow in 1147."

I did not state anything , please comprehend the first words “From the CATO institute”.

60+ times you went to Ukraine , wow ! Jeffery Epstien plane only flew there 40 times or so.
Back 1991 It was when George Soros set up a hundred NGO’s to launder Money from not just from the US but through the IMF much of the world. At the same time he funded not one but two anti corruption agencies. He wasn’t finished though, as he funded and organized Ukraine’s judicial system. All to benefit his and the rest of the NWO crowd from prosecution. That also was the time when human trafficking had a massive increase,
14 years later Sen Hussein was setting up Biolabs.
With a squeeky clean Gas and oil business opportunities abounded for US Politician’s children and cronies ( Cofer Black= Mitt Romney)
to expand their careers. Since the Soros/Norm Eisen/ Victoria Nuland / Hussein Color Revolution in 2014 Neo NAZIS and then Antifa became a growth industry.

so do you cash your checks in rubles or what? ..I shouldn't even give your BS the courtesy of a response...

NUKES !!!! You must have gotten bullied a lot as a child and never learned how to deal with it. russia is bully/bluff and has been forever. IF they would ever use nukes, they are destroyed as well. But be a coward little boy.

EVERYTHING you say in that response is straight out of the KATSAP disinformation playbook and has very little basis in actual reality. AT least you didnt mention russian speakers, Nuland or pigeon bombs.

There was ZERO western provocation. In fact Moldova is WEST of Ukraine so ru actually moved closer to NATO years ago.

Azov, which was started by a neo-nazi, who was removed within a short period of time. Reality check : https://ccl.org.ua/en/claims/euromaid...

You also neglect that in 2014 ru INVADED Crimea and THE Donbass region. Since that date, there has been a muscovy led war aganst Ukraine where 14,000 people dies before this last escalation. (but of course those people wanted to be part of russia, just like Mariupol)

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/governa...

Like I said, you've never been to Ukraine have you? Corruption exists and is being addressed. It is a slow process.and NO ONE denies that.

A funny fact, people are trying to bribe their way into the territorial guard because there are not enough vest or weapons, the volunteer army position are being limited. Because of anti corruption reform, the potential bribes are turned down

Not quasi democracy and the issues of media you gloss over massively. We closed down RT here even, Those stations were Kremlin propaganda continually. But you wouldn't knownthat BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE THERE

The difference between corruption there and here, is we institutionalized it and pretend it doesn't exist.

About that corrupt political system where an outsider who promised corruption reform and ending a war is elected over a standing President (who was a oligarch) Until the attacks by russia, Zelensky's rating were not much better than Biden's.

As I stated EVERYTHING you sated is right out of the KATSAP playbook

From the CATO institute.The notion that Ukraine was such an appealing democratic model in Eastern Europe that the country’s mere existence terrified Putin may be a comforting myth to U.S. politicians and pundits, but it is a myth. Ukraine is far from being a democratic‐​capitalist model and an irresistible magnet for Russia’s groaning masses. The reality is murkier and troubling: Ukraine has long been one of the more corrupt countries in the international system. In its annual report published in January 2022, Transparency International ranked Ukraine 123rd of the 180 countries it examined, with a score of 32 on a one to 100 point scale. By comparison, notoriously corrupt Russia ranked just modestly lower, 139th, with a score of 29.

Ukraine’s track record of protecting democracy and civil liberties is not much better than its performance on corruption. In Freedom House’s 2022 report, Ukraine is listed in the “partly free” category, with a score of 61 out of a possible 100. Other countries in that category include such bastions of liberal democracy as Rodrigo Duterte’s Philippines (55), Serbia (62), Hungary (59), and Singapore (47). Interestingly, Hungary—which has been a target of vitriolic criticism among progressives in the West because of Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s conservative social policy—ranks eight points higher than Ukraine, which is the recipient of uncritical praise from the same Western ideological factions.

Even before the war erupted, there were ugly examples of authoritarianism in Ukraine’s political governance. Just months after the 2014 Maidan revolution, there were efforts to smother domestic critics, which accelerated as years passed. Ukrainian officials also harassed political dissidents, adopted censorship measures, and barred foreign journalists whom they regarded as critics of the Ukrainian government and its policies. Such offensive actions were criticized by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, and other independent observers. The neo‐​Nazi Azov Battalion was an integral part of President Petro Poroshenko’s military and security apparatus, and it has retained that role during Zelensky’s presidency.

Indeed, some repressive measures deepened under Zelensky even before the outbreak of war with Russia. In February 2021, the Ukrainian government closed several (mostly, but not entirely pro‐​Russia) independent media outlets. They did so on the basis of utterly vague, open‐​ended standards. Zelensky has now used the war as a justification for outlawing 11 opposition parties and nationalizing several media outlets. Those are hardly appropriate measures in a democracy, even in wartime.

It is entirely appropriate to sympathize with Ukrainians who are experiencing terrible suffering as a result of Vladimir Putin’s decision to launch a war. Whatever the level of provocations from the United States and its NATO allies, and Ukraine’s willingness to collaborate in those provocations, Russia’s response was over‐​the‐​top. It created a dangerous breach of the peace in Europe and a humanitarian catastrophe. However, one can condemn Putin’s actions and even cheer on Ukraine’s military resistance without fostering a false image of Ukraine’s political system. The country is not a symbol of freedom and liberal democracy, and the war is not an existential struggle between democracy and authoritarianism. At best, Ukraine is a corrupt, quasi‐​democratic entity with troubling repressive policies.

Given that sobering reality, calls for Americans to “stand with Ukraine” are misplaced. Preserving Ukraine’s independence and territorial integrity most certainly are not worth the United States risking war with a nuclear‐​armed Russia.

And independence was when? Ukraine is NOT an English name, it is a transiliteration.

the ukraine is an insult and is the RUSSIAN way of saying it.

Ever been there, I just got back and have been there 60+ times over the last 8 or so years. YOU are ignorant and out of your league.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-u...

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-u...