The boxcars and camps is not a crazy exaggeration. Happened once with Hitler, Is happening again, although the people are just being killed, with Putin, and already its happening here by using the FBI and DOJ to bankrupt people they dont like.

Built into that system they should be able to catch non-citizens voting, should they be stupid enough to try.

Very observant. After removing their income it's box cars and camps...if they let you live that long. Sounds like a crazy exaggeration. But, I think that's where we could head here in my lifetime. Imagine something like the recent vaccine discussion, only with a little more umph behind it. Not a big stretch.

Voting to me is not only a right, but a responsibility, meaning that people have to exercise some amount of work on their own part to take advantage of the right. The right to Free Speech similarly doesn't mean much unless you speak in public.

"but there are people who aren't able to do it for health reasons."

There are always going to be outliers. The question to answer is this: what is the reasonable responsibility society incurs to accommodate these exceptions? If someone is in a vegetative state (I'm intentionally choosing an extreme condition to illustrate my point), does society have a responsibility to pay for accommodations of that nature? Where do we draw the line? And where do considerations for fraud come in? At some point, there has to be a cost-benefit analysis that says society (through taxes) is only willing to spend X dollars to enable Person Y to vote and the rest has to be covered by Person Y. (And no, I'm not talking about poll taxes which are unConstitutional.)

Now you mention disabled veterans. You've already done the work not only as a member of the Armed Forces but in registering with the VA. I would think it a reasonable accommodation to allow such to vote via certified mail ballot. But that is a special case of disability with mitigating circumstances, i.e. your personal sacrifice on behalf of this nation. Others who have not sacrificed similarly, however, do not have society's debt upon which they may call.

"Then there are people who don't have transportation."

That's precinct location and that's on the Secretary of State to handle. My polling place (the local elementary school) is 1/2 mile away from my house and there's no one in the precinct more than 1-1/2 miles away (as the crow flies). The voting precincts are supposed to be intentionally very small (geographically) for this reason, not to mention just accommodating the number of voters. The question again: what is the reasonable responsibility and how far are we willing to go for outliers?

"Finally there is the issue of people working. Do we make election day a paid holiday for everyone in America?"

I don't know too many employers who don't allow their full-time employees a chance on election day to go vote. In many places, the polls simply stay open later to accommodate working people. This isn't a particularly new argument. The question is - yet again - what accommodations (IF ANY) should be made? (And just to answer your question, I fully support national voting day being a paid holiday.)

"I have no problem with people being required to provide ID to register to vote."

I don't either. Voter ID provides proof that someone has the right to vote. (It can also serve as a valuable integrity measure to ensure that noone gets multiple votes.)

"I don't believe non-citizens should vote."

Again, we agree. Voting is a conditional right: conditional based on one's official national affiliation. No one has the right to vote in the United States who isn't natively subject to the Constitution of the United States.

"Finally I would like to get rid of the electoral college completely."

Then you misunderstand its purpose. See this for a great (short) explanation: https://www.prageru.com/video/do-you-...
The elimination of the electoral college effectively disenfranchises rural voters.

"While I don't have children I am a school taxes payer so I should have a seat at the table."

Yes, yes you should. And we are in agreement that the public education system is doing immeasurably harm by failing to teach the Constitution of the United States in its curriculum.

Similar to the suitcases of ballots in Atlanta brought out just after the monitors were sent home - recorded on video and ignored by the corrupt 'justice' system.

Exactly. There is also eye witness of a truck pulling up to the ballot counting room about 2:30 am with "mailed in" ballots that somehow appeared. Just enough ballots to give Biden the victory. The Republican monitors were dismissed when the ballots arrived. The Democrat controlled State ignored the report - "conspiracy theory."

Exactly. Verification of citizenship shouldn't be that hard. One person - one vote.

Glad to hear your ideas, ErikAZ. 👍

I read about a case in Detroit where a caretaker submitted absentee ballots for incapacitated people under her care. I found an article about it (they're prosecuting her and two others). I think they should throw the book at them as a deterrent to anyone else who might think it's a good idea.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...

There was also a city clerk who changed records to show that ballots were invalid when they were legitimate. She's facing felony charges. From the article it looks like it was an effort to balance the qualified voter list with the number of received ballots (it's a bit confusing).

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...

An easy way to resolve the whole voter ID thing is to provide a free identification to every citizen. Don't require payment for a state ID card. If you don't have a DL you can get a state ID for free. That would take care of the argument the left has that "some people can't afford an ID" and comparing it to a poll tax like they do.

I have the word Veteran on my state DL. They could also put Citizen on it based on SS records. Same with state ID cards. So that one ID could be your authorization to register to vote. Since SS knows if your a citizen or not their records could be used to cross check with the state ID. It could work (I'm not sure how but I'm thinking it might).

Long post... my apologies in advance.

Requiring in-person voting works for some people but there are people who aren't able to do it for health reasons. For example there are veterans with PTSD who have 100% VA disability ratings and receive SSDI who don't leave their homes. People who have chronic illness or physical ailments who can't stand in lines. I'm trying to imagine some elderly person standing in line for hours to vote.

Then there are people who don't have transportation. Can you imagine trying to organize the logistics of trying to bus in everyone who doesn't have a way to get there on their own? How is that going to work? It's kind of contrary to all the complaints we see about these so called "community activists" busing people to the polls in the past.

Finally there is the issue of people working. Do we make election day a paid holiday for everyone in America? Do we offer the paid holiday only if you vote? That would be like buying a vote in my opinion. Who would go vote to get a paid day off? Everyone. Is it fair to employers to make them pay people for not showing up? While some places have paid holidays others require you to use your PTO for holidays. Is it fair to people to force them to take a PTO day to vote? Then the issue is if people aren't working they get nothing. Where is their encouragement to vote? Civic duty is out the window for most people. It's sad but true. Do we have a "voting test"? I'd like that. Tell me how many branches of government there are, how many senators and representatives there are, how many supreme court justices there are. What is your state government like? For example in Nebraska with their unicameral system (not two houses). I lived there in the 90's and learned about it because I was active in the Republican party as a supporter and volunteer.

Arizona has had mail in voting for over 30 years and has never had an accusation of fraud until this last election. They have a good system in place and honestly after all the recounts last election I'm sad to say our candidate lost. No evidence of fraud was turned up. I see no problem with mail in voting which has worked very well in other states. There has never been evidence of large scale fraud in mail in voting, in fact the only fraud cases I can find seem to involve a few family members voting for dead relatives (and they were Republican cases). The left loves those. All the complaints the last election about "mail in voting fraud" and I haven't found one case of it being verified. A system that has worked for decades in multiple states effectively should be encouraged not taken away. Ballot harvesting is another issue (and illegal) but even in the case in NC and the one above that is being investigated no evidence is being presented that the ballot themselves were fraudulent. That's a real gray area for me. What about relatives dropping of a family members ballot with their own? I can support dumping the drop boxes. If people can go to a drop box they can go to the post office. Or they can mail it in from home. I don't see the need for drop boxes.

I'm very passionate about this issue as I'm one of those Veterans I mentioned above. I worked until last year when I had to retire early after another hospitalization. I had a high paying career and worked for 39 years before things fell apart. I didn't apply for VA help until a few years ago and received a disability rating and SSDI last year after applying very quickly. I have days when I can't leave my house. I recently received a permanent excuse from jury duty for medical reasons because of it. Some days I'm doing OK (like today) but other days I'm a mess (like last Tuesday). I also remember my parents (now deceased) who in their older years were hardly physically able to go stand in a line to vote. Face it, if you have to "bus seniors in" to vote they're going to be standing in a line even if they have a time scheduled. They'd have dropped where they stood.

These are the states that allow mail in voting. It's over half the states in the US. These states below all offer "no-excuse absentee/mail ballot voting".

AK, MT, ND, MN, WI, MI, VT, ME, ID, WY, SD, IA, IL, OH, PA, NJ, NV, NE, MD, DC, CA, AZ, KS, VA, NC, NM, OK, GA, FL

The following states offer mail in voting with some sort of reason required.

WA, OR, CO, UT, HI

Only these states offer no mail in voting.

NH, NY, MA, CT, MO, KY, WV, DE, AR, TN, LA, MS, AL, SC, TX

I have no problem with people being required to provide ID to register to vote. The whole signature verification thing is a moot point for me because whose signature today looks like the one from a month ago? Personally my hands shake to due Tardive Dyskinesia from the years of medications I've been on from the VA. My signature (and handwriting today in general) is illegible. Why are signatures suddenly a huge problem this election when they weren't in 1980, 1984 (Reagan), 1988 (Bush), 2000 (Bush II), 2016 (Trump). Even the other years that Clinton and Obama won there weren't the complaints about signatures.

I don't believe non-citizens should vote. I believe in fair and free elections. But I also believe an election didn't suddenly become "unfair" because someone in particular lost. We heard the same cries of "rigged elections" and "fraud" in 2016 and then our Republican candidate won. After the election we heard NOTHING about it. So the election was OK because our guy won? Why weren't we all up in arms then? It just seems a little ridiculous to me.

Finally I would like to get rid of the electoral college completely. Put every vote in play. It's ridiculous that four or five states decide the President every election. I would also get rid of gerrymandering congressional districts. It's an embarrassment and honestly further polarizes the population.

Sorry if this rubs anyone the wrong way and I respect every opinion here. I just can't agree with some of them on this matter. That is what is great about America. We can all have our own opinion. I don't post a lot here but I joined this board years ago and I respect every opinion in here. I read every post and I've learned some things. Early on I trusted the whole Covid thing for example, but reading here about the miscarriage data in military spouses shocked me. It encouraged me to read more about it. Now I don't trust the government line on that point. As Reagan said "trust but verify". An interesting footnote is that saying was a Russian proverb first.

Thanks Freedomforall for the reference to the movie Coda. I will watch it (another example of me learning something here). I've compensated for not being out of the house by writing letters. I can believe schools aren't teaching the Constitution, but the fact they're encouraging ignorance of it should be a crime. While I don't have children I am a school taxes payer so I should have a seat at the table. I doubt they're teaching it here where I live, so I could write a few letters to the local school board.

On the canvassing test to create the test is a question. Do you think people should prove their citizenship and identity to vote? People with "No" answers are banned from voting.

How can people believe than non-citizens have a right to vote? That's tantamount to saying any person, all 9 billion of them, can vote in the USA. And dead people, dogs, cats, birds, worms.

Well, it is understandable. It comes from the anti-nationalism movement. They believe that since all people are equal, and as John-Karl Marx Lennon said "No money, no countries, no religion, a Brotherhood of Man," that the USA ought to be dissolved into the whims of the world.


Is it just me or does it seem like the Woke buy iPhones and the rest buy Android?

Right, both blarman and Aeronca. 👍
I'd want a test of understanding the voters' responsibilities and the constitution, too.

I watched the current Oscar winner for best movie recently (CODA.)
Mostly a good entertainment, except for a schoolroom scene that condones ignorance of the Constitution.
Apple was the company behind it. Treasonous scum have to spout anti-American propaganda at every opportunity.

With proof of identification and citizenship.

Simple solution is to do in-person voting only. Make people show up to the polls to vote. If you want to schedule times for senior centers to bus their people in, do it. But make them show up in person to vote.

A crack of light...

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-stat...

Bailey-Rihn wrote that Vos and the state Assembly, “after hearing and notice, have chosen to willfully violate a court order and are held in contempt.” She told Vos and the Assembly to turn over records within 14 days and to pay $1,000 per day if they fail to do that. They will also have to pay some of American Oversight’s legal bills, the judge said.

Vos attorney Ronald Stadler told Bailey-RIhn a week ago that the work to retrieve Vos’s deleted emails from his legislative account was ongoing and he would need up to two weeks to review whatever is found. Stadler also said he had an expert witness who would testify that deleted text messages could not be recovered.

Stadler and Vos could not be reached for comment after office hours on Wednesday.

Yeah they don't put the best things in the 80's
Chemistry sets. Earlier ones you could create some mischief. Now a "chemistry set" is baking soda, vinegar and red food dye. Just a paper booklet you have to buy the ingredients yourself.

Thank you.
What are the rules for republishing on the Internet. I have thought it would be similar to quoting in writing, though giving URL does the same thing.

Me dino did not even like the chemistry set my parents gave me when I was a little kid.
Come to think of it, I guess those aren't made for kids anymore.
When I had kids during the Eighties and the Nineties, I never saw chemistry sets in any toy catalogs or stores like Toys R Us.

Sorry! I like chemistry!

You made me have to go look up sulfuric acid.

Entire text:

At least 137,500 absentee ballots were cast through unlawful vote trafficking throughout several of Wisconsin’s largest cities in the 2020 election, according to research presented last week to the state Assembly’s Committee on Campaigns and Elections by the public interest organization True the Vote (TTV).
Ballot trafficking is an activity in which absentee ballots and votes are solicited, sometimes in exchange for money or other valuables. They are then collected through a process called “harvesting” and delivered to drop boxes by intermediaries (someone other than the voter), who are often paid a per-ballot fee by partisan actors.
“An organized crime against Americans” is how TTV cyber expert Gregg Phillips described to the committee what happened in Wisconsin and elsewhere during the 2020 election.
Based on his 15-month study of election practices in Georgia, Arizona, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Texas, and Michigan, Phillips estimates that at least 4.8 million votes were trafficked nationally.

According to the True the Vote report, 242 intermediaries in metro Atlanta made 5,668 stops at drop boxes during elections in late 2020. In its report, TTV said it obtained 4 million minutes of drop box video surveillance tape that helped to document its Georgia findings.
“Many of the traffickers we spoke with do not recognize what they are doing as being a problem,” TTV spokesperson Catherine Engelbrecht said.
The study found that in Arizona, 202 intermediaries made 4,282 separate visits to ballot boxes in Maricopa County.
Several Arizonans have since been indicted for election law violations, with at least one conviction, according to Phillips.
Phillips told the committee that, in the states studied, TTV purchased from commercial brokers 10 trillion unique cell phone identity signals called “pings.”
Human rights organization First Freedoms funded the time-consuming and costly project.
Using a technique called geospatial mobile device signal analysis, Phillips said researchers are able to reconstruct a four-dimensional “pattern of life” of cell phone holders.
“From these pings, it can be determined where you work, where you sleep, and even what floor you are on within inches,” he said.

The Wisconsin study focused primarily on the Milwaukee County area, with some partial initial data coming from Racine and Green Bay, where the study will soon be further expanded, Phillips said.
In those three areas, TTV’s cell phone ping research found that in the two weeks from Oct. 20 through Nov. 3, 2020, 138 individuals each visited the location of a nongovernmental organization at least five times and made a combined total of 3,588 trips to absentee ballot drop boxes.
“That’s an average of 26 trips per person to drop boxes in the Milwaukee area,” Phillips said.
“Is this evidence of fraud?” committee member Lisa Subeck, a Democrat, asked.
“Vote trafficking is being done through the process. It is illegal,” replied Engelbrecht, who stated that every vote cast illegally cancels the vote of a legitimate voter.
Wisconsin Statute 6.87 (4)(b)1 provides that an absentee ballot envelope, in which the cast absentee ballot is placed, must be “mailed by the elector, or delivered in person, to the municipal clerk issuing the ballot or ballots.” The Circuit Court in Waukesha County in Teigen v. Wisconsin Elections Commission, has agreed, holding that use of drop boxes for absentee voting violates Wisconsin law.

Drop boxes, if unattended by a municipal clerk or in an unauthorized location, are illegal under Wisconsin law. The law is currently being challenged in the Wisconsin Supreme Court.
In her testimony, Engelbrecht stressed that the TTV report was focused on the process and wasn’t attempting to prove the 137,551 votes were illegal votes.
State Rep. Dave Murphy, a Republican member of the committee, stated: “If you vote in an illegal way, it is an illegal vote. If the process is illegal, the vote is illegal.”
Earlier in March, the report of special counsel Michael Gabelman on voter fraud revealed that some personnel of nongovernmental organizations are suspected of coordinating the 2020 ballot harvesting operations in Wisconsin’s five largest heavily Democrat-run cities—Milwaukee, Kenosha, Green Bay, Madison, and Racine.

When asked by Rep. Donna Rozar, a Republican, to name the NGOs in the study that were repeatedly visited by intermediaries, Phillips declined.
A spokesperson for Micah Inc., a leading Milwaukee nonprofit philanthropic organization, told The Epoch Times that Micah does conduct “voter engagement efforts,” but declined to say more.
Phillips and Engelbrecht testified that enormous nonprofits, such as National Vote at Home, are promoting voting from home and favor doing away with in-person voting on Election Day entirely.
“Most countries around the world vote in person on election day, including Ukraine,” Phillips said.
Engelbrecht argued that some countries have perfected secure blockchain electronic voting and said she thinks U.S. technology is advanced enough to at least ensure accurate election data.
She said that some U.S. election jurisdictions view inaccurate voting rolls as a “feature rather than a bug.”
“Our rolls are abysmal. Bad records are the gateway to fraud,” Engelbrecht said.
“If you can’t verify identity, you can’t do anything else,” Phillips said.

Rep. Ron Tusler, a Republican, asked if TTV could identify the 138 alleged ballot harvesters (also known as “mules”).
“We know the names but are not disclosing them,” Phillips said. “Anyone can buy them commercially. However, law enforcement would need a warrant.”
In the other states studied, government-made video surveillance tapes of ballot drop boxes obtained through Freedom of Information Act requests were used as part of the process of estimating how many ballots were trafficked, along with personal interviews with intermediaries and other tipsters and cell phone ping data.
Engelbrecht told the committee that in Wisconsin, in September of 2020, her organization set up a hotline to receive tips from informants.
Unlike other states where video surveillance footage of the drop boxes was made available to TTV investigators, Engelbrecht said that only one of the 17 Wisconsin localities studied provided TTV with video.
Engelbrecht stated that in the summer of 2020, the Wisconsin Election Commission (WEC) announced it approved of video surveillance of the state’s drop boxes, as recommended by the federal Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA).
“WEC did not follow through,” she said.
Neither did WEC provide to localities written guidelines based on CISA’s recommendations for the locations where the drop boxes were to be placed, according to Engelbrecht.
She testified that across the country, the majority of the ballot drops surveilled typically happened between 8 p.m. and 5 a.m.
She told the committee that the removal of 234,000 problem names from Wisconsin’s registered voter rolls, as recommended by the Electronic Registration Information Center, was stopped by a lawsuit.

Forty-nine-year veteran elections attorney James Bopp Jr. came before the committee to provide a legal perspective to the facts presented in the TTV report.
Bopp has litigated 200 election lawsuits and is currently legal counsel to TTV. He is also representing special counsel Gabelman in several lawsuits against him stemming from his investigation.
Bopp testified that filing an avalanche of lawsuits was part of a years-long effort by Democrats “to make the whole system more susceptible to fraud and abuse.”
He said 425 lawsuits were filed across America by Democratic Party operatives or front organizations in the runup to the 2020 election.
Bopp asserted the suits were designed to ensure ineligible people were maintained on voting rolls; to expand voting to every voter on the rolls, whether active or inactive; and “to tear down every other anti-fraud protection, such as prohibiting signature verification and striking down witness requirements for absentee voting.”
Turning to Wisconsin, Bopp pointed the committee to what he called “the corrupt and illegal activity and administration of election laws for partisan ends engaged in by your Wisconsin state government and municipalities designed to maximize the number of Democrat votes.”
Addressing the alleged embedding of partisan get-out-the-vote efforts within local governments in Wisconsin’s largest cities, Bopp said the practice evades federal and state campaign contribution limits of just a few thousand dollars, and gives real-time, hour-by-hour, cost-free access to voter rolls to partisan actors.
Bopp said the practice disguises its partisan nature, disguises the identity of out-of-state billionaire donors contributing millions, thereby violating the principle of transparency and exceeding contribution limits.
“Despite clear and unequivocal state law, drop boxes created the infrastructure to accomplish all of this,” he said. “Drop boxes left unstaffed and located anywhere clearly violated state statutes.”
He criticized what he said was the “grossly partisan, corruptly political, and blatantly illegal” actions of the people administering Wisconsin election laws.
Bopp asserted that the actions in Wisconsin gave significant partisan political advantage to Democrats, exactly the people the plan was designed to help.
“Ruthlessly exploited by large-scale organized and illegal ballot harvesting operations, involving not-for-profits and the people working with them, (the scheme) could very well have influenced the outcome of the 2020 election,” he said.
“What has been disclosed—and, in my view, proven—is that there were sufficient irregularities in the 2020 election that a court, at the time, could have reached the conclusion that the true result cannot be determined. But that time has passed.
“It’s not about overturning the 2020 election. It’s about the future. The situation is crying for reform.”

Rozar reminded the audience that numerous election reforms passed by the legislature have been vetoed by Gov. Tony Evers, a Democrat.

Neither Evers nor state Attorney General Josh Kaul, also a Democrat, responded by press time to requests for comment.

Wow, 10 trillion pings would be equivalent to about 3008 pings by each American during the election period. Sure were some busy harvesters to have 10^12 pings!

Sometimes you can get past the paywall by clearing your cookies, or by spoofing your login information.