There’s no “Population Bomb”

Posted by Storo 3 years, 4 months ago to Economics
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Our earth is finite. Resources limited. In the arena of public discourse there are those who blame any and all things except overpopulation for the problems of the day and push the idea of overpopulation to the side.
The fact is that most problems today in the areas of the environment, reduced resource availability, water supply issues, pollution, and so forth derive from higher demand from our ever-increasing world population. But those denying the role of over demand put the blame on things like “income inequality”. To them, the solution is income redistribution and increased production, rather than anything associated with population.
Today, countries and even states in the Us are fighting over water resources, and it’s just the beginning. Countries like China and India build more and more coal fired generating plants due to the demands of their burgeoning populations for electricity, and carbon footprints be damned.
Sustainable production of resources requires a lon and hard look at controlling demand based on controlling population. To do otherwise is to bury one’s head in the sand. Wealth redistribution and implementation of other PC programs won’t cut it.


All Comments

  • Posted by CMBurton 2 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    While I agree with much of what you are saying, I do not like the idea of state legislatures electing federal legislators. That's putting another layer of government between us and our representatives in Washington. Our state legislators don't represent us on a state level, they're definitely not going to choose people to represent us in Washington. There will just be even more cronyism than we already have.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't disagree that it has been a thoughtful discussion. But when one is advocating for whole-life-changing behavior, that IS religion. Don't misunderstand me, I believe that Rand-ism/Objectivism is a religion just as much as Christianity, Buddhism, or anything else. If it is a way of life based on one's fundamental beliefs, it is religion. If what one is selling is based on a belief in some future event and then advocating for a whole-life philosophy revolving around that future event, that is a religion. It's not inherently bad or good. The individual merits have to be examined by each individual person who considers it. And that absolutely should take place in an open and thoughtful discussion. But to be able to effectively present your position, you should be willing to acknowledge it for what it is.

    I respect the right of every person to choose their course in life provided that course doesn't infringe on anyone else's right to do the same. I respect and appreciate the fact that you are willing to advocate for a course you believe in without resorting to coercion. Thank you. I wish more people were as tolerant and thoughtful and you are a credit to the Gulch and humanity itself.
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  • Posted by 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I must respectfully disagree that I am advocating for a religion any more than someone who believes the sun will come up tomorrow is doing so. If we view anyone who brings something up that he believes is a potential problem, and discounting him as advocating for religion, then no problem can ever be addressed.
    So I’ll leave it there. I believe that open discussions where widely differing views can be expressed are healthy and positive. I therefore thank you for you expressing your thoughts on the subject. Regards
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  • Posted by $ blarman 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm not going to debate you (even though there is counter-evidence for everything here). My point is that you are advocating for a religion. You are advocating for a lifestyle choice based substantially on a belief. I'll leave you to it.
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  • Posted by 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    OK. I am going to try to be as academic as I can. I am obviously not a genius. But one need not be a genius to see the signs.
    And, in a word, yes, I am asking people to see the signs and make lifestyle changes that might forestall various potential crises in the future, including having fewer children - voluntarily.!While the things that are coming at humanity may not fully affect us immediately, they will indeed affect future generations. I propose we act as much as we can now, while we are able to still impact these coming problems.
    Below are links to two videos. One is a presentation by Roy Beck of NumbersUSA, and often referred to as “The Gumball Video”. Mr. Beck’s primary subject is immigration and its effect on the United States. I have included 2 videos by Mr. Beck, as there is some different information in each.
    I have also included a video by Hans Rosling, a Swedish specialist in world population. I believe he is overly optimistic in saying that world population will never be more than 11 Billion. He says we will reach that 11 Billion number in 2100 or there abouts. Contrast this with a link to a United Nations study from 1996 stating that we won’t reach 11 Billion until 2200.
    I have also included a link to a video titled “World population growth 1800 to2100”. This video has no narration, but shows an expanding graph of world population from 1800 to 2100. It’s worth the ten minutes it takes to watch.
    Finally, i believe we as a species is placing too much faith in technology to save the day. There are some things technology can do, and some it can’t. Moore’s Law is nearing its limit, and whether calculated with a computer, a quantum computer or an abacus, the finite nature of the world’s resources are the same.
    I recall that some years ago (not many) someone suggested that we solve our population problem by colonizing the moon, Mars, and other planets or moons. The problem with this is that the 5+Billion people on earth earning less than the average worker in Mexico (see The Gumball Video), add about 80 to 84 million new people each year. Stabilizing the earth’s population through space colonization would mean sending millions to these new locations. EVERY YEAR!! Really? No.

    As noted above, tech can do some things and not others. One thing it cannot do is increase the world’s resources. While deposits of some raw materials are abundant, others, even today, are not. As an example, I have provided links to two other videos. One is from USA Today, and one is by National Geographic. Both address the issue of water resources in the United States, specifically the western states dependent on the Colorado River, and other River systems along the West coast.
    These videos examine the problems these areas already have today, such as the fact that there has been a 20 year drought in the region, that farmers, not just there, but in other parts of the country - like Kansas, Florida, and others - are pumping billions of gallons of the “fossil” groundwater from aquifers that cannot be recharged, and that Lake Meade’s water level has dropped by 128 feet just during the last 10 years or so. It’s only 200 feet or so from being unusable as a water source.
    Please note that neither of these videos mention population growth, except perhaps obliquely.
    I do not believe in forcing anyone to do anything, and I support Galt’s idea of living for yourself. But we do not live in a Galtian vacuum, and population growth and resource scarcity will certainly be something we should pay attention to, and do what we can to impact them.


    Roy Beck, NumbersUSA
    https://youtu.be/VSKNvvhKazM

    https://youtu.be/muw22wTePqQ

    Hans Rosling - world population

    https://youtu.be/2LyzBoHo5EI

    World population growth 1800 to2100

    https://youtu.be/neAzeAAq0hc

    The water crisis - National Geographic

    https://youtu.be/3VyfN30XzDM

    Pumped dry - The global crisis of vanishing groundwater - USA Today

    https://youtu.be/RjsThobgq7Q

    United Nations population study

    https://www.un.org/press/en/1998/1998...
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  • Posted by $ blarman 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The "facts" in this case are a combination of some facts like entropy and a healthy dose of suppositions, like when the earth's resources are going to give out, etc.

    You're asking people to make conscious lifestyle choices based on things that won't affect them or their children (except the absence of such) or even your children's children - and all based off some future event. The choice to have children and how to provide for them is very much a philosophical/religious decision. It goes right to the heart of one's fundamental beliefs about life, its purpose, how one pursues happiness, etc.
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  • Posted by 3 years, 3 months ago
    I’ve never thought of this as religion. I guess you could characterize a belief in any thing - population problems, global warming, that Pelosi is a Godsend, or that the Dodgers will win the World Series as a “religion” of sorts. I prefer to think of it as looking at the facts, doing the research and objectively applying common sense.
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  • Posted by 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Any system, be a democratic, socialist, communist, totalitarian, dictatorial, or objectivist, can’t keep the system going - for a time. Ultimately, however, without control of population, the system will run into the limits set by God in nature as to the number that our system can support. This should be viewed as the number our system can support, as opposed to the theoretical number that the planet is able to support. While the planet may theoretically support untold millions and billions, the reality is that their supplies, food, water, resources, Must be developed, processed, and transported to where they are needed. This is a greater limitation Than theoretical models. Technology will help, but again only for a time.
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  • Posted by 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not really. Government can continue sending food and medicine and other necessities people need. But in the face of that, human beings being what they are, they will only continue to multiply. If government steps in and says they can’t reproduce, now we’re talking a dictatorial government.
    Today the world population adds about 84 million, births over deaths, each year. The world seems to be able to absorb this increase at the present for a time. But unless this number can be reduced, population will at some point increase exponentially, and natural limits will come into play. I believe it best to try to raise awareness and do something now while we can, rather than wait until a major portion of the human population is starving to death, even if that time is 200 years away.
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  • Posted by 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh, and in my case, my concerns, at least in part, led my wife and me to have only two children per the old (1970’s) Zero Population Growth (ZPG) movement of the time.
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  • Posted by 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don’t think that having fewer children means that the individual is mortgaging his/her future, or anything else. A number of years ago Al Gore put out his “Inconvenient Truth” video and was going around the country saying that we had only 10 years to act to avoid inundation of the world’s coastal areas, due to “catastrophic man-made Global Warming”. So Rush Limbaugh (God bless him) put a countdown clock on his web site and it ran for ten years until it ran out. And guess what? Nothing he predicted came to pass.
    Contrary to that, educating people about overpopulation can see the seeds of understanding and action. You do that by telling them the truth - and it is especially important to do so because the world’s population is increasing at an ever increasing rate due to people living longer because of better nutrition and advances in healthcare - ie, we have and are removing the natural forces that naturally control population.
    I strongly recommend the “Gumball Video” at NumbersUSA.com, or you can find it on YouTube.
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  • Posted by 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, an I believe I quoted Jefferson thus, elsewhere in this thread.
    We can get to “citizen legislators” by instituting Term Limits for both Representatives and Senators. One six-year term for Senators, (repeal the 17th Amendment and return selection of Senators to the legislatures of the several states.) and three terms for Representatives.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Western countries are limiting their populations."

    It's a far more complex issue than strict government coercion. On the one end you have China with its direct and explicit policies enforcing population control - and destroying their future in the process. On the other end you have the socialist tax policies which make it economically prohibitive to have a large family due to the high cost of living. That's certainly what has happened in the EU which has to supplement its populace with immigrants just to keep it stable. To a lesser degree the United States is starting to fall into the same malaise as in the past few years our birth rate has fallen below replacement.

    The thing that makes me shake my head is that all of the redistribution schemes fail when population drops like that because the country inevitably ends up with more takers than producers. And its so transparently obvious that is what is going to happen. The obliviousness of progressives/socialists makes me cringe.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Still not sure what your argument is.

    In order for a nation to give, they have to "have" something in the first place. (The US has perverted that by taking advantage of the strength and ubiquity of our currency to give away money we don't have in exchange for taxes on future production.) The problem with socialist nations is that they only survive as long as their producers can out-produce the inevitable rise in spending. So giving money as welfare to other countries hastens their own demise regardless what the other country does with the aid.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No idea. It's a hypothetical that one can certainly bandy about in either direction. My personal opinion is that the African nations have two enemies to fight. The first is themselves. So much tribalism and instilled hatred that they are constantly warring with each other. Nations at war destroy themselves and civil wars ten times that. Its no wonder they have no infrastructure, no clean water, and famine prevails when the local tyrant/warlord takes all resources - especially young people - just to fuel that hatred.

    The second is the very Europeans who claim to want to "help" yet put trade embargoes on African products. Take cacao for example. The raw cacao beans are grown almost exclusively in Africa. They require a tropical climate. But Europe prohibits importing refined cocoa products from African nations. Those refineries could be generating thousands of jobs for Africans. It's disgusting - and racist.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 3 years, 3 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Except that it won't be you who has to make the turn in your story. It won't even be your children or grandchildren. It's so far off in the distance that the relevancy quickly gets lost. And without relevancy or meaning, there will be no action.

    That's the real problem: how do you motivate people about a hypothetical problem which doesn't apply to them or anyone they know? How do you ask someone to mortgage their present for the possibility that someone hundreds of years in the future (even assuming your timeline is accurate) will thank you - posthumously? Good luck...
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