Seasteading book series

Posted by Vlad_ben_Avorham 1 month, 1 week ago to Books
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In a plausible near future, the titans of the newest tech revolution, fed up with restrictive regulation protecting existing monopolies, decide to build their own floating island.

Experience a tour of the first island city state through the eyes of Elaine Winters, a typical left leaning tech blogger, invited out for an interview with the island's creators. See her culture shock, as she gets a real taste of freedom and a lesson in what can be accomplished when you don't have to ask permission first.

Torn from the headlines technology, is featured on MU as mature and operational. Sometimes, still expensive, at others, it has been brought down by economies of scale. This is a fun easy read, designed to be enjoyable rather than deeply philosophic, while still conveying a basic understanding of the principles of free enterprise and market forces to a young woman who's "education" has been severely lacking in such basic information.

MU is a right leaning libertarian political philosophy, book two, Atlantis is about a more left leaning yet still libertarian political philosophy which runs that Island. The third book wrapped up the series, essentially tying up the basic story arch, while still leaving you plenty of room to imagine what the world could do next. After all, the best part of Tomorrowverse, is thinking about how you would better it.
SOURCE URL: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09C8WKZ8Q?ref_=dbs_p_mng_rwt_ser_shvlr&storeType=ebooks


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  • Posted by $ Commander 1 month, 1 week ago
    Well.....here was the first attempt. A real life Farley Mowat; "The Boat The Wouldn't Float"
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021...

    Never deliver a vessle, with the owner aboard, who is not a competent Captain.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 month ago
      I really liked this article. I don't sneer at them at all for trying to build a ship-based seastead. I hope someone tries again, learning from their experiences.
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      • Posted by 1 month ago
        Ship based has too many issues for long-term viability in my opinion. At least for independence. If all you want is an apartment building on the sea, then sure, but to have anything more than that, you will need more than a modern ship can really offer. Even nuke powered Aircraft Carriers would be pushed to the absolute limits, without a lot of advanced bleeding edge technology to help them along.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 month ago
          What about a group of ships? It would be great to see that work and for investment and hard-work to flow there, leading the way for something more permanent. I wonder if it could come from some land people think of as remote and useless, like something in Greenland or in some free-trade zone in Central America. I like to fancy one has started under the radar, but I really doubt it.
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          • Posted by 4 weeks, 1 day ago
            A small flotilla would be interesting, but again food production, and industry, etc. is very difficult to do on that scale.

            A level of independence could certainly be achieved, probably better than living on the land, but they would still be tied to some resupply from the land. I don't think they could achieve full self containment, or even containment, plus what could be harvested from the sea. Which I would see as the ultimate goal.

            Perhaps as an intermediate step though, it would be a good move in the right direction.
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 weeks, 3 days ago
              "full self containment,"
              It depends on what self-containment means. Trade and collaboration are where wealth come from. So avoiding trade and interaction is a recipe for poverty, even if you imagine a micronation located in an ideal place with abundant natural resources.
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              • Posted by 3 weeks, 1 day ago
                Wealth is natural resources + labor, so no it doesn't have to equal poverty, especially with a strong 4th industrial revolution, industrial/tech base.

                That being said, isolation wasn't the ideal, but rather a survivable baseline. We'll trade with you for mutual benefit, but we won't depend upon you for survival. That would be how I would define "fully self-contained" in this context.
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 2 weeks, 5 days ago
                  The 4th industrial revolution means more value is in the form of data, so you could can be physically isolated but still trade value. The more you trade, the more wealth created.
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                  • Posted by 2 weeks, 4 days ago
                    It is also about ease of local automated manufacture. A city state with a programmable production system could manufacture in one facility what it would have required hundreds of factories, each with different tooling to make even today.

                    The same holds true for the advanced ag techniques. Both for plant and animal, and to be honest things that are hybridized.

                    I think the role you presume trade would necessitate, these advanced production methods would allow singular facilities to accomplish the same goal, provided the raw materials.

                    So yes trade is still preferable, and yes easier because it is mostly information and raw feed stocks, but quality life is possible without it, should hostility be the preference of the outside. That is a must for any seastead to survive. If it is dependent on the outside for survival, it is a colony of the land and nothing more.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 month ago
    I seem to remember a fancy seastead like research facility in the book Recursion. But in that book it turns out to be evil.
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    • Posted by 1 month ago
      In my novels, the builder of the island says that he has an order from a group of actual commies. He makes the joke that he is going to sell them on, and figures he can buy it back to resell later cheap after their society collapses. So I guess that would be an evil seastead.

      The idea is that each of the islands once built functions as an independent city state. So any form of governance you can dream up, you could try. If you fail, you only doom one island. So long as people can still vote with their feet in a worst-case scenario, no harm no foul.

      Needless to say, that alone is one of the points that makes him unpopular with the existing governments on the land. After all, they don't like it when you give their serfs another choice.
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      • Posted by Lucky 1 month ago
        Yes that is the key point, unless you are sure, go for a diversity of views and rules.
        Actually, you should never be sure.
        Laws and rules that differ from state to state are bothersome but uniformity is worse, it assume things and opinions never change or vary by location or circumstances.
        Note- the current climate change conference COP25 gabfest wants a uniform minimum tax rate everywhere.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 month ago
        "I guess [a communist civilization] would be an evil seastead."
        In the book I think it was owned by someone using knowledge gained from a time machine for nefarious purposes-- nothing to do with reality.

        A communist society wouldn't be evil if residents could vote with their feet, as you say, but generally communist societies shoot people trying to flee to freedom ("desert their comrades in battle"), so such a civilization probably would turn evil.

        I suspect we're hundreds of years away from people moving out in to the rest of the solar system and trying different things. Maybe we have to wait that long. There's a thousand years of Middle Ages (dark ages) between the Roman Empire and the Enlightenment. Maybe we're in a Roman Empire period, and in a thousand years people on Mars or in stations constructed from asteroids will experiment with the ideas of the ancient Greek city-states, the Roman Repubilic, and the US experiment. In this scenario, some place in space goes form being a backwater to a beacon of liberty and technology, who visit DC and NYC along with London, Rome, Greece, and Syracuse, Sicily, places that are nice places but no longer centers of trade.

        I don't count on this, though, become I'm not sure living off Earth will ever be practical. Living under the sea would be easier. There may really be not "planet B".
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        • Posted by 4 weeks, 1 day ago
          I think you underestimate technology, and how rapid its advance has become, and the rate at which that advance has been speeding up. I see most of the delays and obstacles we face now as political, rather than technological.

          It isn't so much that we can't do these things, but rather that the focus wasn't put in that direction because it doesn't serve the purposes of those who currently make the decisions. Depending on who comes out on top of the centralization/decentralization fight that is currently brewing, that may change. We will then either expand and take risks and grow again, a new age of exploration and colonization, or we will implode and retreat into neo feudalism, at which point, it will be Orwell's boot on the human face until the machines eventually replace us. Which they will, because only greater and greater reliance on the machines will allow the level of police state required. That will eventually get away from the control of TPTB, and you can take your pick of Terminator/Matrix what have you, as your favorite replacement scenario.

          Being a religious man myself, I think it will be the second. At which point our Creator will have to step in to salvage his creation. That is just my view though, and I allow for the fact that we could learn from our mistakes and keep this wonderful playground we've been given ticking for quite some time.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 weeks, 3 days ago
            "Depending on who comes out on top of the centralization/decentralization fight that is currently brewing, that may change. We will then either expand and take risks and grow again, a new age of exploration and colonization, "
            Sadly I don't see a strong fight for decentralization. My hope is that we're seeing balancing trends from the world getting small vs increased respect for individual liberty.

            Expanding into space could come from some sudden reason to need access to space, like a manufacturing process that requires zero-G or finding some resource in space, and some technology that decreases the cost of getting to space.
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            • Posted by 3 weeks, 1 day ago
              Space won't bring us individual liberty. Not when they can cut off the air supply. The "Firefly" concept of "you can't take the sky from me", makes good drama, but I don't see it being technically feasible. It would be nice if I were wrong, but I don't think that I am.
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  • Posted by 1 month, 1 week ago
    Yeah, they were under capitalized and they also had failed to resolve a couple of other issues. One they still wanted acceptance by polite society, so one of the big issues they ran into is no one would sell them insurance. And they cared. It was an issue for "staying legal" for several other things. They had to deal with all of this because they haven't solved the biggest issue with seasteading which is security.

    How do you keep the enforcers from pushing the serfs back to their tax plantations? No one has a good answer for it. Even in the novels, I cheat and resort to a new, purely sci-fii technology. The only time I use one that isn't pulled from a current headline in the whole book.

    So yes it has it's issues. Doesn't make it less of an entertaining story. After all even rand had to come up with magic holographic mirrors to keep government thugs from invading Galt's Gulch.
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