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Objectivism & the illusion of currency?

Posted by $ AJAshinoff 3 years, 8 months ago to Philosophy
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cryptocurrency is literally NOTHING, a promise based on the integrity of a mathematical algorithm.

By definition Crypto means"
noun, plural cryp·tos.
a person who secretly supports or adheres to a group, party, or belief.
adjective
secret or hidden; not publicly admitted:

Objectivism is the idea that human knowledge and values are objective: they exist and are determined by the nature of reality, to be discovered by one's mind, and are not created by the thoughts one has.
Peikoff, Leonard (1991). Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand.

A=A
Value for Value

So how is it a philosophy based on the tangible and observable can embrace such a vacuous idea for currency? Money being the physical representation of a persons labor, his/her sole property to do with what he or she wish's for his/her sole benefit. How does one give his "value" away for nothing or at best potential from nothing?

Granted the dollar isn't worth much if anything these days. Even so, if worse comes to worst you can wipe your ass with a dollar bill, you can smelt and reshape coins for whatever purpose you have. You can compost paper money to help grow food? Knock $10 worth of smelted quarters into some weak nails or a spoon?

What do can you do with cryptocurrency when it is 'considered' pass'e by the masses? When governments feel too threatened by another competing illusion of wealth (value) and filters out all the supporting protocols for the "currency" 1's & 0's from routers and servers around the globe of those "artists" they don't prefer (or who care not to share)?

What happens when you alone no longer are permitted access to your digital funds or your fund's algorithm gets rendered obsolete by the next version of super computer and your $10k cypto stockpile is worth absolutely nothing?

I get being frustrated with things are they are.But a recent conversation has me wondering if the whole **cking world has gone insane.


All Comments

  • Posted by BradA 3 years, 8 months ago
    ALL currency is nothing but an abstraction of productive value. This includes those colored pieces of paper denominated in dollars. They provide a convenient short hand for representing one's production of something that is valued by others. But the actual currency has no intrinsic value*. It's only value is in a shared perception of that abstraction.
    When you accept $100 from someone for something you created, you have an internal notion of what it took you to make it. When you go to exchange this abstraction for an item that someone else has made, you do a calculation of whether your underlying effort is a reasonable trade for the new thing.
    In the case of dollars there is a relatively long history of the shared perception of its value. Cryptocurrencies, not so much. People may continue to value them or they might go the way of the tulips. Time will tell.
    *some currencies are supposedly backed by things like gold or other precious metals. But even that is based on a shared perception of its value. Because, apart from its subjective beauty and resistance to corrosion, it's not terribly useful.
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  • Posted by Kittyhawk 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, "goldbacks" are quite new. They have recently perfected a technology which allows a certain amount of actual gold to be adhered to the paper bill.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Hi, LibertBelle. What I mean by state sanctioned is a business given special approval and/or protection by some government law or edict (the state). To get the full story on the Federal Reserve read the book "The Creature From Jekyll Island". The Federal Reserve is actually a private bank formed in ca 1913 and given special protections and permissions by congress. More modern examples are the special government protections given to private companies like Pfizer and Facebook to do what they do without worrying about redress in the courts if they screw up.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Those quarters are now the content of what silver dealers call 'silver bags". A 'silver bag' contains circulated U.S. coins minted prior to 1965 (silver quarters and dimes) with $1000 face value, e.g., 4,000 silver quarters. It will contain about 715 troy ounces of pure silver(and weigs about 54 lb.) Today's pricing is roughly $19,000.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Understandable, but a little late. Like money, computers are not going away are very powerful, and getting more powerful. TVs, toasters, microwaves, LED lights, this computer, and everything else has them. The Confederacy had paper money, that is more worthless than Bitcoin.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I remember when quarters did not have that copper strip in them they have now. It think they started putting it in when I was about 8 or 9 years old. So the currency gets debased.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Do you mean "yellowbacks"? My father told me about them, a long time ago, when I was young and worked as a carhop. Later, on the job, I talked about them. On another work night, my boss showed me one. It was a yellow dollar bill.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Actually, I do not really even like the writing of things on computer much. It can so easily disappear, as opposed to things written on paper or in books.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    What 401K? I have none. But even paper money should have a certain weight of metal (gold or silver?) in back of it.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, they were called dimes with .0723 troy ounces of silver (worth about 1.80 today.) The problem is that creating them requires real metal and that would cut profits for the banking cartel.
    Ditto for copper coins.
    A pre-1982 penny consists of 95% copper and 5% zinc. 4  It contains about 2.95 grams of copper, and there are 453.59 grams in a pound. Today copper spot price is $4.69/lb.
    A pre-1982 'penny' is worth about 3 cents for its copper. Bankers would probably make the new copper coin with that content a half dollar.
    An ounce of copper has spot price of about 29 cents. That would probably be the cartel's new 5 dollar eagle.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I wonder how long they last. Normal paper money wears out much faster than coins.
    They make 1/10oz gold coins, worth $180 USD. I have not seen them, but I don't see why they couldn't make 1/10oz silver coins, worth $2.30. For smaller denominations, they could use 1oz copper.
    Whatever is used, it needs to be resistant to counterfeiting.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 years, 8 months ago
    Most of the comments here critical of crytpocurrency are a variant of "government or thieves could steal or vandalize cryptocurrency. That's true of anything of value.

    We're asking too much of crypto or anything if we expect it to be impervious to theft.

    I think many fans of crypto also ask too much of it. They say they want it to be a medium of exchange and a long-term store of value. I think it's great for a medium of exchange, but a long-term store of value is tricky. Value is providing for people's desires, e.g. a business the provides food, apartments, clothes, etc. It seems like crypto zealots want crypto to store value better than actually owning businesses that create value. That's asking a lot of crypto. Real value always comes from people serving one another in mutually agreed trades. Money is a way to do that without barter. If you want to store value, and deploy it to create more value, you have to actually own means of production, not just own a fancy medium of exchange.
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  • Posted by $ 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not really. More like a carefully constructed house of cards created by some crafty folks that were good with math.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sure seems like a lot of what if’s and unsupported assertions. Probably time to reduced this to opinions.
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  • Posted by Flootus5 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The bank won't work either. The difference is that bitcoin is passed off as a safe alternative to fake money. The only thing to be trusted is very diversified hard assets.
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  • Posted by $ 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    FDIC. When things come back online your equivalent funds will be restored. You also know where and who your bank is so you have legal recourse.
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  • Posted by $ 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    One knock I've had from day one here was my belief in God. The argument when it comes to belief is that A does not equal A. Why? Because God can't be proven or disproven by objectivist standards.

    Agreed on the computer part. I was working on what we have and are improving on, but it yet to come will make short work out of these algorithms, and millions will lose billions, perhaps trillions of actual money.

    BTW, I'm all for riding the wave investment-wise, provided you know when to jump ship before it crashes.
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  • Posted by $ 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A 401K provides a contractual note to your funds, that you can hold, and is often times backed by the FDIC. Even if paper and coiin are near worthless they are still tangible.

    its one thing to use the web to watch your funds, the actual money you put somewhere, and another thing entire to call a thing with absolutely no substance money.

    Someone write a match algorithm which they claim cannot be violated, corrupted, hacked and then sell shares, for actual money, based on that confidence to millions people.

    Lather-rise-repeat a thousand times and we have a global cybercurrency alternative financial system. This will end up making Bernie Madoff and the $65 billion he swindled look like a rookie. The most amusing aspect is who goes to jail when the bottom falls out? No one. A super computer can't be charged. It's almost funny.

    It's the ultimate con-game.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 3 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Let me get this straight. You can’t touch it; therefore, it is a pretense. This part of your argument is a fallacy. I bet you have never touched anything in your 401k either. Is it similarly a pretense?
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