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Isn't this an attack?

Posted by mspalding 1 week, 6 days ago to Government
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The Russians used 1,000 engineers to create the Solarwinds hack. They got into many government agencies including Homeland Security and they took down many private companies. Doesn't this count as a military attack? What is the proper response?
SOURCE URL: https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-solarwinds-attack-took-more-than-1000-engineers-to-create/?ftag=TRE-03-10aaa6b&bhid=26345603813187968816028257099812&mid=13269687&cid=825275075


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  • Posted by freedomforall 1 week, 6 days ago
    Always blame the Russians. The lament of liars and looters. Its all just speculation, not fact.
    Do you "trust" Microsoft? I don't. They have proven repeatedly to be less than truthful. Lately they have proven to be an agent of the state.
    The state wants a war with Russia? War is the power of the state.
    I can speculate, too. I speculate that it was just one brilliant guy and his name was John Galt.
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    • Posted by mccannon01 1 week, 6 days ago
      "The state wants a war with Russia?" I've wondered the same on several occasions, but not necessarily the whole "State". Only a certain faction of dyed in the wool Marxists that never forgave the Russians for turning their backs on communism. Start a shooting war carefully orchestrated to avoid full out nuclear and, most importantly, blame it on someone besides themselves. "They" pressed Trump on several occasions (Ukraine, Syria, paying Taliban to kill US military) some real some made up. Notice "they" didn't press Obama to confront Russia over Ukraine, but they pressed Trump. I seem to remember Hillary making flippant remarks that Trump should get tough with the Russians, but she never did.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 1 week, 5 days ago
        Russians could be the greatest ally Americans could have, but the entire Deep State has to go if we, the People, are to have a chance at honest negotiation with Russians.
        Many of them correctly blame the deep state corporations for destroying any chance for Russia to recover as a country of free people and free markets after the collapse of the Kremlin. Russians were economically raped with the deep state taking unearned profits galore. Since then the deep state has been economically raping Americans at every opportunity. We share a common enemy.
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  • Posted by $ aasnip 1 week, 5 days ago
    Nothing new. China, Russia, Ukraine, UK, and the USA all have large organizations dedicated to electronic warfare. Many of the Chinese are graduates of US universities and trained in US companies and government agencies. If you are ever in DC, look at the folks sitting around working on laptops. Many are foreign agents capturing wifi and bluetooth conversations from oblivious travelers.
    This has been going on for many years. All of these countries are looking for vulnerabilities and ways to do damage.
    Personally, I'd rather have it this way than have things escalate to violence.
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  • Posted by term2 1 week, 5 days ago
    collectivist governments do this attacking crap all the time. Its up to us to first protect ourselves so they cant do this stuff, and only then secondly attack them with war.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 1 week, 5 days ago
    Why is me dino thinking about China? You know, that country the Deep State is so in bed with.
    Can't expert hackers make it look like someone else came a-hacking?
    Russia would make a great fall-guy, especial after all that phony Russia! Russia! Russia! collusion the Dems and Fake News barked about throughout Trump's presidency.
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 1 week, 5 days ago
    Consider this: Putin is the Trump of Russia.
    Pay close attention. What he is doing is NOT HARMING Russia, and he is NOT INVADING Countries.
    Although, as Putin said, despite this, WE and NATO have POINTED MORE MISSILES than ever at Russia.

    The Globalists want him out. He kicked out some of them from his banking system, to get out of debt.

    They won against Trump, because in Russia, Putin is WILLING TO KILL his crooked opponents. (Wrong by our standards, but honeslty,
    if it meant we had trump back in office, and exposed the issues with the election, I would prefer Putins way, and quite a few bodies stacking up.
    Instead of the DEEP STATE being afraid, they are GENERATING FEAR and GAINING OBEDIENCE. And, FWIW, ask HANEY if they kill people.
    Just one more unsolved (SETH RICH) murder when you cross the Deep State!)

    Finally, we KNOW about leaving FAKE Fingerprints. Our own NSA Developed it with the CIA, and they "validated" the hacks for the FBI and others by saying "Yep, those are Russian Fingerprints". DO YOU REALLY TRUST ANY OF THE 3LAs (3 Letter Acronyms)? I don't. I think Vince Foster is a prime example. FIRST TIME an FBI Photographer EVER double exposed BOTH cameras films (Yes, they use 2 cameras, to be certain). And both sets of film were ruined. Despite this, within 6 months, I believe they were promoted, and then promoted again... Strange... Like the Chief of police over Seth Rich case getting a 6+ figure job with the NFL after losing the OFFICE GoPro videos.

    We are being LIED to and LED to our conclusions. I refuse to participate!
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    • Posted by mccannon01 1 week, 4 days ago
      "Pay close attention..." Yes, indeed. I've noticed a similar pattern, for instance Putin's Middle East policy seems to be to keep things stirred just enough such that if Muslims are killing each other (or Americans), then they are not killing Russians - keep in mind Russians and Mohammedans have been in opposition for centuries. What's the real reason behind the Ukraine current events? - Stalin threw the Muslims out of the Crimea, Putin isn't going to let them back in like the current Ukraine regime would do. You might ask, but aren't the Russians all nice and cozy/friendly with Iran? I say it would seem so, but only to a point - Iran is funding Muslims killing whoever in the ME, meaning they're not killing Russians. Let's say Iran finally develops its very own A-bomb. I predict:

      1) wait for a weather pattern where Iran will be down wind from Russia for at least a few weeks
      2) BOOM, Iran will suffer a horrific nuclear "accident" wiping out all the bomb making capabilities
      3) Conversation between White House and Kremlin:

      WH: Vlad, what the hell was that!???
      Putin: Fagetaboudit, you don wanna know. Click.
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      • Posted by CaptainKirk 1 week, 4 days ago
        Actually, their ME playbook is PROTECT Syria at all costs... NO PIPELINES into EUROPE! (That would create competition for their oil/gas)!
        Our Response: LABEL their puppet a dictator, and pick a fight, while we TRAIN the insurgents.

        Ukraine? That is ALL ON US. We stole their GOLD, indebted them to us, staged the coup and TRIED to pick a fight with Russia.
        Russias Response? Taking Crimea? (No. They had it in their constitution that if things with Ukraine Fell Apart, the Crimeans could VOTE to secede. And they did. REALIZING it is a HUGE Russian Naval Base. They would have went to war with Ukraine, but there was no need!)

        Is Putin Perfect? NOPE. Nobody is. Has he let his team "push" on borders around Ukraine/Crimea? Sure...
        Did he RIG the Crimean Vote? (He's been accused of it, but I think the fact that EVERY NAVY person and MILITARY person voted won the day, but he COULD HAVE shipped a bunch more military in there to run up the vote. I have seen no real evidence of this)

        Would I take him for the President of the USA over Biden? Certainly. Would I give Biden to the Russians? NEVER, I like the Russian People MUCH TOO MUCH to do that! That would be CRIMINAL, like it feels for us, to have a Biden Presidency.

        Meanwhile... We are going to need an ALLY to stand up to China... China cannot take us both on, but EITHER ONE with the other keeping their nose out of it, is dangerous. Because China is killing us with Fentanyl, destroying our education, bribing our elected officials... I think Trump was right, again... China is the problem we need to worry about!
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        • Posted by Lucky 1 week, 4 days ago
          Captn. On just one of your points-
          no pipelines in Europe to compete with Russian gas.

          Recall, Joe has canceled the Keystone pipeline, but the US is 'believed' to be brokering a pipeline running across Afghanistan. Three possible reasons-
          1. Being nice to the ruling Taliban. But there are easier ways if this what you want.
          2. Bringing more natural gas to the global energy market. But no benefit to the US as still close to energy independent thanks to Trump.
          3. Competition for Russian gas. I think that would be it, ok relations are not good US/Russia but no need to make them worse, there is a bigger problem.
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          • Posted by CaptainKirk 1 week, 4 days ago
            Okay, but it's NOT about the environment, it's about GRAFT.

            If you look into our pipeline, Obummer and his crew wanted a hefty LIFE LONG percentage from these people, and anything less was the deal killer.
            We are using TRAINS which have a far worse ECO track record. But wait, BUFFET profits and shares that. He bought into CSX as they were bleeding,
            and before the Pipeline was announced to be stopped. Then bammo. He gets in, and they announce it.

            Even with the ME pushing pipelines through syria. Look at Ted Cruz talk about the pipeline he shut down, that Russia was working on to Germany.
            This is ALL GRAFT and CONTROL before politics, THEN it's politics... The worse kind, used as a weapon to bankrupt.

            Pay the ukrainian oligarchs, get your family in on the good deals and you will use your government position to defend them.

            The middle east is no different. And the media is COMPLETELY IN ON IT. Where is the coverage of what happened to SADDAMS Gold or Ghaddafi's gold?
            We are talking HUNDREDS of tons of gold. Did those bankers just get to keep it? Yep, as long as the greased the right wheels.

            And the OIL contracts changed hands, and now HRC and her people are getting a percentage of the oil flowing out of their KNOCKED over countries.

            When THEY hate us for the oil. It's the US Military USED to help Drug Lords in Afghanistan (Read about Pat Tillman), and our COMPANIES leveraging our sword, in their names to go after the profits from the oil... But NOT the USA itself. This is simple funding for the Deep State. Play along, be rich and well paid. Don't, be killed, silenced, attacked.

            == Funny thing about pipelines. With some effort, and available supply. You can shut off the Ukraine end, and feed from another end. But just getting the oil cheaply into the country, delivery will show up. And Russia will lose it's ability to price on need (raising it a LOT during the cold winters).
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  • Posted by $ blarman 1 week, 5 days ago
    The sad fact of computing is that the more complicated you try to make computers, the easier it is to find a breach to exploit. And cloud computing is a breach just waiting to be exploited by its very nature of allowing so many access points.

    I think that one of the best things we could do is to educate our own people about just how much IP theft happens via these breaches every year and that it does constitute theft and violation of our sovereignty on a grand scale. We shouldn't put up with it and we should at a bare minimum retaliate with tarriffs and boycotts on products from the nations involved. (If we did that with China alone we could put them into a recession.)
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    • Posted by CaptainKirk 1 week, 4 days ago
      Well, the SAD fact is that our OWN Govt has hardware at the front end of EVERY NAP in America, and all the CISCO routers shipped out of the country have back doors that people like Snowden were exploiting. And that's why we are afraid (rightfully) of Chinese Telecom Equipment.

      Because WE KNOW what back doors we have into everyones stuff.

      The real issue is that THESE things are allowed to be in place. And even Berners Lee is now regretting his VERSION 1 (WWW)
      I think the Version 2 (everything is private, no identifiable information, everyone comes through a random black box, and they use micro-services and pay as you go... Shareware style internet. The introduction version is free).

      NOTHING should be on the internet that represents infrastructure or Government... Why does my local water facility need to have an internet connection INTO their facility. An OUTBOUND spot to drop off numbers for reporting (like tracking), sure. Through a low bandwidth, highly encrypted, monitored, controlled line. Low speed!

      But NOPE. Lets plug the internet 1 stop from Critical Government Databases... And see what happens!
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      • Posted by $ blarman 1 week, 4 days ago
        Convenience and security are polar opposites and that is the problem. Anyone who uses the internet is compromised. No exceptions. That public works are on the Internet is one of the worst decisions ever. Who in their right mind puts the power grid with hooks on the Internet? No one with an ounce of security.

        If the power company wants to monitor my meter, let them run a parallel line next to the power. And pay for it. Closed network. Same thing with the water company. Close the circuit to the meters. Yeah, it's a pain to run the wiring. But if you want security, you can't skimp and bail out.
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        • Posted by CaptainKirk 1 week, 4 days ago
          Look, even if they ran it over an INSECURE network. The point is to AIR GAP it. It stops, and drops information off on consumption.
          3 times a day, someone pedals their bike over to those boxes, plugs in a USB card, copies the data.
          Plugs it into the other side and uploads it. 10,000 Meter readers replaced by a couple of computer operators.
          Yep, there is a DELAY. No longer real time.

          You want to know your balance, etc. Request it. During upload a text message will be sent to your phone. [Read Only and Write Only, GAPPED].

          But in general, I agree. One Network to "Expose them All" was a bad idea. The clear-text original designs. OMG...

          The key point is. THE INTERIOR network should NOT be network enabled to the internet. I've worked in a HUGE company in Norway. They were so paranoid that they had firewalls preventing anything but internet access from inside the conference rooms! I agreed with that.
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          • Posted by mccannon01 1 week, 4 days ago
            I've had similar experiences at some American companies that will not allow some of their systems access via Internet. Not even W-Fi. You have to drive to the location and physically plug into an Ethernet connection and they are not easily accessible as in you can't just willy-nilly open a panel and plug in. You don't plug in with your computer, you have to use one of theirs.
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  • Posted by rhfinle 1 week, 3 days ago
    There are some very right wing politicians who very much dislike the Russians - understandably, because of bad blood from the Soviet era. Understand, though, that Russia, once the darling of the Liberals, is now their greatest embarrassment - Russia demonstrated for the whole world that Communism is unstable and will eventually fall - and the American Liberals ~hate~ them for that. This is sad to see. I remember seeing Gorbachev at the Washington Cathedral crying his eyes out over the death of Ronald Reagan. Those two men did more than anyone else to stop the animosity and hostilities between Russia and America. We have a long way to go.
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