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Proposed Florida anti-rioting laws "merely a legal excuse to mow down pedestrians"

Posted by $ blarman 2 months ago to Legislation
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If you want to protest, stay on the sidewalks. The moment you start blocking the roadways and threatening traffic is when your rights to peaceful assembly cease to exist.
SOURCE URL: https://www.theblaze.com/news/fla-governor-proposes-law-that-would-protect-drivers-who-kill-or-injure-demonstrators-if-theyre-fleeing-a-mob


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  • Posted by $ allosaur 2 months ago
    A mob rioting rioter is not just mere "pedestrians" but a serious physical threat to everyone else near.
    This is unlikely to happen in my sweet home Alabama at this point in time, but I've already made up my mind about what to do if subjected to a specific threat situation I've repeatedly seen on TV.
    Should I ever be in a car surrounded by a mob and one of them even begins to break a window, that scumbag eats a bullet.
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    • Posted by evlwhtguy 2 months ago
      Make sure you have $50,000 in the bank to hire attorneys. In the USA, you only have rights if you can afford to defend them. In this situation I think pushing the gas pedal down a bit is a lot safer. If they break a window you can push it harder. Dash cam is a great idea. I dont have one....but I if was in an area that this is likely to happen, I would get one.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 2 months ago
        I may be stuck behind another car should that unlikely scenario occur.
        Me dino stays out of downtown Birmingham as much as possible and would definitely stay out if I hear there is protesting going on.
        Could happened. Atlanta is just a two-hour drive from here where a Wendy's got burned down for the crime of being close to an incident.
        Birmingham has already had some trouble over historical statues.
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        • Posted by $ gharkness 2 months ago
          That stuck-behind-another-car (or a lot of other cars) is the situation that scares me the most. Like you staying out of your downtown area, I stay out of Tulsa downtown too. There's that entire Greenwood area where a bunch of blacks were massacred 99 years ago. It was horrific, I'm sure, but tearing up my car isn't going to bring a single one of those people back. The way they go about all this "protesting," you'd think it would for sure make Lazaruses out of all of the dead.

          My husband is very easy going, which is nice because wherever I go, he wants to go too. And he never goes anywhere unarmed unless it's illegal to do so, and then he's armed right up until he has no further choice. It's hard for me to believe that there was actually a time when I thought being armed all the time was an over-reaction.

          BTW there are insurance firms that will cover the risk of having to defend yourself. When hubby was teaching CHL lessons, he'd have a rep come visit and give a presentation. I don't know, but I just bet the premiums have gone up a bit - or a lot - lately.
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          • Posted by rtpetrick 2 months ago
            Times have changed and your mild mannered husband has the proper attitude. I never leave home unarmed because I can't afford to take the risk for my wife and myself. He shouldn't either.
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          • Posted by $ allosaur 2 months ago
            There's a credit union I use for a bank. I haven't gone inside since the pandemic started; but when I did enter that "gun free zone," I always had a pocket pistol concealed.
            I always had a polite something to say to the armed guard, who would be the first concern of any bank robber who followed me in.
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        • Posted by TheOldMan 2 months ago
          I always leave space between my car and the car in front of me. Not only to avoid being blocked in but also if I see someone coming up from behind and it looks like they are not stopping, this gives me some room to maneuver out of their way or honk to wake them up and give me room to move forward so they have a little more distance to slow down before hitting me.
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          • Posted by $ allosaur 2 months ago
            Well, that sounds so easy.
            Me dino doesn't tailgate but now I recall all the times I've been in heavy traffic sometimes with parked cars between me and a sidewalk to my right, tight for heavy traffic on my left and, oh, now I must stop at another red light.
            And another red light. And another red light. And now look at the back of that 18-wheeler I find in front of me. Now a beggar wants me to roll down my window. Ignore the bum.
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        • Posted by evlwhtguy 2 months ago
          I understand......You still need the 50K if you want to bust a cap on someone on the street......If they are in your house at night with a joker mask and a gun....you probably only need 5K......but "bustin the cap" will cost money. Justice is expensive.....unless you own nothing....then it costs nothing....but it can also be worthless. I haven't even started talking about the civil suit aspects of the "Cap Bustin". You will find out the scumbag you shoot had 15 bastard children, all of whom relied on good ol daddy, "the choir boy", for everything.
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          • Posted by $ allosaur 2 months ago
            Don't know what state you live in, but in Alabama shooting home invaders should (I survive that without a scratch) cost me no more than hiring carpet cleaners. The dino has great health insurance by the way.
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            • Posted by evlwhtguy 2 months ago
              Every time you have a citizen self defense shooting, you see the shooter on the news and next to him is his attorney.....Just to have the attorney show up is about a thousand dollars. I am a shooter and a big proponent of self defence....but make no mistake.....even a completely justified shooting is very expensive....if you are a professional person and especially if you own property. If you are a middle class white collar person and you even spend 2 weeks in the pokey....you are done professionally. If you have to take any significant time from work for court appearances and your employer is "Woke" they will terminate you in a flash. If you are a no job welfare scum...endless court appearances or 2 weeks in the pokey is nothing at all....3 hots and a cot is what that is called.
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              • Posted by $ allosaur 2 months ago
                I'm a retired corrections officer who was trained to shoot and I can still shoot tight groups at the range.
                Thanks for the advice but should I have to defend myself I'll just have to. Odds are I'll never have to shoot anyone but I try to keep myself mentally prepared.
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                • Posted by evlwhtguy 2 months ago
                  Tha sad thing about these protesters is that they rely on the very civilized attitudes of the poor middle class schmucks in whose faces the scream and carry on at....secure in the knowledge that most people are civilized and the very police they are protesting will protect their little candy asses.
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                  • Posted by $ pixelate 2 months ago
                    I was thinking right along these lines. These sad actors have very thin resumes ... a "sum of zeroes" and their raging toddler antics are their means of asserting their worth (which is very little).

                    I realize that if it comes down to the use of force, I will need to have the funds to legally defend myself. I have connections with a couple good attorneys and can fund my defense. I do not want it to come to that, so I have done what I can to stay out of the trouble zones. If the trouble comes into my quiet neighborhood, then force will be met with force and my attorney will be close at hand.
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  • Posted by GaryL 2 months ago
    Good for DeSantis and this new legislation should not even be necessary anywhere in the USA. If a mob surrounds my car and means me and my family harm then the ones in front or behind will simply be speed bumps. If they break windows and attempt to get in then I am in fear of my life or the lives of my family and they pushed their luck. Yes, there is insurance for those who carry concealed weapons and it will cover you and provide legal defense attorneys but you still have to JUSTIFY your actions and be in the RIGHT. I too am a retired Corrections Sergeant and was a weapons training officer but I will not be "Busting any Cap" while I am using deadly physical force and protecting myself and family from a life threatening incident. I live in a very rural area yet bad things happen all around here and all the time and it is getting worse by the day.
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  • Posted by rtpetrick 2 months ago
    Perhaps it is way past the time to declare martial law when "peaceful protests" become violent riots and to start shooting the rioters and looters....and I don't mean with pepper spray and rubber bullets...
    Of course, I could be wrong.
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    • Posted by jdg 2 months ago
      I agree, the President should have sent the Marines to all those cities months ago.

      He says he's held back because federalism -- but federalism is about laws that are optional. No city or state has business using it as an excuse to let people be murdered or their shops burned because some nut group wants to throw a tantrum. Being protected from violent and property crime is a human right. #ThugLivesDontMatter
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      • Posted by $ 2 months ago
        Yes, there are lives and property in the balance. But one also has to look at the long-term political ramifications: these rioting cities have been governed by Democrats for 40+ years. Those policies will eventually lead to the very types of unrest, etc. now happening. The choice is to try to fight to preserve them or to allow them fail (to "shrug") and see if the people will recognize the problem as originating in these Democratic policies. If he intervenes, all he does is preserve these Democrats while putting himself up as the whipping dog and tyrant. If he holds back, he can appropriately point at them and tell people they have no one to blame but themselves for continuing to vote for bad policies. While the loss of life and property and livelihoods is indeed tragic, the problem doesn't fix itself except by conscious rejection of the policies and politicians who perpetuate the problem.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 2 months ago
    I would see it as a control against rioting and property destruction. You do not need to be blacking traffic to just protest peacefully. Further, if you are blocking traffic, likely you are also impeding Interstate Commerce, and should be hauled in. We have to open up our streets for commercial use. I have seen the slowness of US maile that goes through Chicago, just since this rioting began. During the prior Chicago riots, I had a package sit in the Chicago USPS for two weks without moving. Time to take action before Soros takes over the whole country before the old fart drops dead.
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  • Posted by Storo 2 months ago
    Why do we need new law for these illegal activities? Are there not already laws on the books that address rioting, looting, burning buildings and property, intimidating or assaulting other people, destroying cars and storefronts, attacking police, and so on? Why do we not just enforce the laws we already have on the books?
    I applaud DeSantis for trying to do something, but I see no purpose in passing a law that reinforces the illegality of something that’s already illegal.
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    • Posted by $ 2 months ago
      We need the new laws so that activist judges don't try to twist the existing laws which assume common sense and lawful behavior. The only reason laws exist is to punish the unlawful. It's no surprise that new laws have to be added when the number of immoral acts increases.
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      • Posted by Storo 2 months ago
        Understood. However, knowing the intent and plain meaning, the criminals have ignored current law. So what’s to stop them from ignoring the redundant laws?
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    • Posted by jdg 2 months ago
      We need new laws to allow federal intervention because the cities and states where this is occurring have elected police chiefs and prosecutors whose policy is to just let rioters go if they belong to leftist groups. In many cases Soros paid for the prosecutors' campaigns.
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      • Posted by $ 2 months ago
        I would actually argue exactly the opposite. The purpose of the Constitution was to leave State matters up to the States and let the people get what they vote for. The Federal Government could certainly be called upon to intervene if a State had an issue with another State, but beyond that, there is no enumerated power authorizing the Federal Government to intervene in local politics.

        Now does that mean that the people in those jurisdictions are going to suffer? Probably. What we have to hope is that suffering brings calls for change which appear at the ballot box. Otherwise, the change will be a result of force from rioters and will get ugly.
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        • Posted by jdg 2 months ago
          I assert that the "privileges and immunities" guaranteed by the 14th include protection against violent crime. That's the cause for federal intervention.
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          • Posted by $ 2 months ago
            I understand the desire, but let's turn it around. Do you really want to enable the Federal Government to create, fund, and staff enforcement bureaus all over the country whose only purpose is to quell riots? Not only is that an overreach of authority IMHO but it also creates an opportunity for a less scrupulous Executive to use those forces as brown shirts/GRU/stazi/etc. I'm seeing enough red flags here to drive a charging bull crazy.
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            • Posted by jdg 2 months ago
              It's a job for the National Guard, and the law already provides for it, as well as some regulation about when it can be done (the Posse Comitatus Act, but also the Insurrection Act).

              The Constitutional Convention did debate a provision that would have banned Congress from maintaining a standing army, but decided not to. Though in practice we did not have one during peacetime (beyond the National Guard) until after the Mexican War.
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              • Posted by $ 2 months ago
                You might not know this, but the National Guard is anything but national. They are actually volunteer militias under the direct command of the State's Governor - not the President of the United State. If they are called upon for service, the Governor must assent to that request or they don't go. (Several governors refused to send their Guard units to the border when called upon by President Trump.)

                I found this in reference to the Posse Comitatus and Insurrection Acts: https://www.thoughtco.com/posse-comit... One of the things it points out is that there are significant limits on what the National Guard may be used for.

                Again, however, I have to ask: what is the impetus behind getting federal forces involved? I can point to a few instances where that only went bad, such as the Bundy Ranch standoff and the Malheur Reserve protest in which Lavoy Finicum was murdered. One could also add Ruby Ridge, Waco, and the incident with Elian Gonzalez. I'm not such a big one on playing with fire.
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                • Posted by jdg 2 months ago
                  I know that they are state militia, but I believe it's a controversy whether the governor can refuse a federal call-up. If it happened during riots, the President could always call up NG from other states and send them.

                  The reason I want federal forces involved is that in places like Portland and Minneapolis, the city councils, police chiefs, state prosecutors and governors are all in bed with the bad guys, so either the feds intervene or the victims have no option except to fight a gun battle against both the BLM thugs and the corrupt police who are protecting them. If civilians are put in that position, then government isn't doing its #1 job.
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                  • Posted by $ 2 months ago
                    "I believe it's a controversy whether the governor can refuse a federal call-up."

                    It's political but not illegal. When Eisenhower went in to enforce desegregation at Selma, he couldn't use National Guard troops from Alabama because the governor refused. Same thing with the border kerfuffle. The President just has to call on units from other (politically-friendly) states.

                    "The reason I want federal forces involved..."

                    I agree that the entire system smacks not only of injustice but dereliction of duty by local elected officials. That isn't sufficient justification, however, to attempt to remove those officials from office using Federalized troops. Yes, its absolutely unfair to the citizens that their local officials are jackasses (double meaning there) but we have to look at the forest rather than the trees.

                    One of the huge erosions we've seen in the Constitution has arisen as States have seen their power usurped by the Federal government in nearly every arena. The entire purpose behind having States at all was to make politics local and applicable. The biggest problems facing our nation right now are nation-wide in nature - not local - and all revolve around too much power in the Federal Government. If we start using Federal authorities to remove objectionable local authorities rather than allow their own citizenry to do it, we might as well just end Federalism entirely and dissolve the States, eliminating the 50 individual petri dishes they represent and subjecting all of us to the same overly-broad rulemaking which gave us Common Core. IMHO, that's a cure worse than the disease.
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                    • Posted by jdg 1 month, 4 weeks ago
                      I wasn't advocating removal of the local officials (though putting them on trial for violating civil rights, and removing them plus prison if convicted, needs to be on the table). But denying police protection to the innocent-but-politically-out is not in the range of choices local officials are entitled to make.
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  • Posted by wmiranda 2 months ago
    Personally, I avoid those situations when possible. Should it happen where I'm surrounded by an angry mob, I would stay in the car, then move forward. If I run over someone, oh well. If someone takes a shot, I'll shoot back. I rarely miss within 21 feet, never within 10.
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    • Posted by $ gharkness 2 months ago
      Well, I agree....surely no one in their right mind goes to these places on purpose! I know I don't. Every once in a while, though, one gets surprised and of course it's a good idea to be prepared. I fully expect at some point one of these rioters will set a vehicle on fire with people in it. Actually, I'm kind of surprised they haven't (yet). Horrific!
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 2 months ago
    The header for this topic completely gets the purpose of the legislation wrong. In Portland, Oregon and in some other cities, people in their cars were mobbed and kept from escaping. This proposed legislation is designed to give those mobbed the right to flee for their lives.
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    • Posted by $ 2 months ago
      The quoted section was from the commentary by Democrats critical of the new law. It is hyperbole and gross exaggeration - which was why I put it in quotes. I completely agree with you.
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  • Posted by lkparkerjr 2 months ago
    I worry about this issue with regard to my wife's commute to/from work as she has been very near rioters. She will be getting her Concealed Hand Gun License to protect her. Mobs, rioters, 87% protesters in Texas --we will not wait for the police. You are on notice. Do not block our streets. Do not interrupt our meals at restaurants. Do not attempt to burn down down our businesses. Do not tear down or disfigure our statues. Actions have consequences. This is not your parent's basement.
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    • Posted by $ 2 months ago
      One thing an active-duty military colonel responsible for our volunteer radio group told us is even more important (than carrying a sidearm for protection) is situational awareness. He emphasized that the "Mark I eyeball" is still the most valuable tool for keeping yourself safe. I know that since his little pep talk, I've become a lot more vigilant (most of the time) about watching where I'm going and what others around me are doing.
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      • Posted by lkparkerjr 2 months ago
        An Army vet, I carry my Mark I eyeball EVERYWHERE I go along with my 9mm. Unfortunately my wife has never learned situational awareness and thinks she has a bigger set of balls than she does. I will arm her.
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  • Posted by starznbarz 2 months ago
    Here in Florida we already have a legal remedy to blocking traffic and threatening vehicle occupants, its called the Stand Your Ground statute. Works every time its legally deployed.
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    • Posted by $ 2 months ago
      Legally, how does Stand Your Ground apply to motor vehicles and rioters? Its not that I doubt you, I'm just curious to hear the legal application.
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      • Posted by starznbarz 2 months ago
        Stand your ground is well named, it not only legally justifies a person to use deadly force when that person reasonably believes themselves to be in danger of serious bodily injury, or death. It requires you to be in a place you are legally allowed to be, not be the aggressor and it applies if you step in to stop injury, or death of another person. It further puts the burden of proof to show it was not self defense on the prosecutor, not the defendant. It also insulates a legitimate SYG event from civil liability. So, if I`m at an intersection (a place I can legally be) and my vehicle is blocked from leaving, then my vehicle windows are broken out, or attempting to be broken out,
        I am well within my natural rights, recognized by SYG, to defend myself and any passengers with any means at my disposal.
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      • Posted by TheRealBill 2 months ago
        I can't speak to FL laws, but in Texas it does. It even applies to your workplace or business. In Texas, fleeing doesn't necessarily undo stand your ground.

        For example, if someone breaks in and tries to run off with stuff, you can pursue and use requisite force to recover.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 2 months ago
    Actually...not a bad idea...watch em use the cross walk for protesting purposes though...lot's to think about, to observe, before you mow them over.

    Remember: Don't Break for Communism...where have I seen that before?
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    • Posted by $ gharkness 2 months ago
      Reminds me of the days of County Commissioner John Wiley Price in Dallas. He did, I believe, actually use the cross walks and spent his time crossing the street, along with a couple dozen of his friends.
      Verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry Sllllllooooooooooooooowly. And then, oops, he forgot something back on the other side, so they all had to go back. You can see where this is going.

      Not that he was really averse to violence. Lots of threats, broke a police officer's ankle, occasionally beat on a car door, various stuff. Also arrested for things like tax evasion, acts of public corruption. I don't believe he ever went to prison, though no doubt he should have...there may be some benefit to delaying tactics when it comes to trials. But the thing I remember the most was him crossing the street at the crosswalks. The people he caught up in that were, I am sure, absolutely infuriated. Which is what he intended.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 1 month, 4 weeks ago
    If they block my truck and start pounding on it I'm mashing the gas. Might as well stick their finger in the barrel of my 357 magnum...
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