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Subverting Santa Claus

Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 4 months ago to Culture
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I was thinking of started a more expanded thread entitled, "Christmas in the Gulch" wherein I began by questioning how Christmas could work in the Gulch, but decided that it's too far from Christmas for that (my store had its Christmas merchandise coming in in September...)

But something occurred to me last night that I felt compelled to share...

My first thought was, "Santa doesn't fit into the objectivist view of things; he travels the world giving away gifts"

But it's not Santa's fault. When I was a kid, Santa *was* trading value for value when he made his Christmas run.

See, I was taught, as were my siblings and peers, that you only got gifts if you were good; the better you did, the better/more gifts he would bring. Keep your room clean, obey dad and mom, clean your plate, get good grades, all could earn you better presents from Santa.
And, of course, if you behaved badly enough, he would bring you a lump of coal.

That's trading value for value. In exchange for the behavior he desires (for whatever reason) he offers material objects the kids desire.

Nowadays, I suspect the good behavior aspect has been removed, turning everyone's kid into a moocher.

(And let's not get into a big debate as to the existence and nature of Santa Claus, for the sake of parents who may have little ones reading over their shoulder...)


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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 12 years, 3 months ago
    I like Christmas, because like Thanksgiving it's a chance to get together with family. I have spent many of both with just me and my dog though. I still remember the train and village underneath my paternal grandparents tree and they died when I was 6 or so. Things may be taking some left turns here shortly, so the future is unclear for Christmas & Thanksgiving. Halloween I have a gig and if I have a chance to get the stuff I'll be a pirate and I'll hand out candy to the little moochers.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 12 years, 3 months ago
    If you visit Objectivist discussion boards, you will find endorsements of various holidays. Easter does not get much play, but Thanksgiving and New Year's do. Christmas gets a nod, also.

    If you goto the Atlas Society and enter "Christmas" in the search box, you will be rewarded with several hits, including this one:
    "The Human Spirit of Christmas" by Ed Hudgins
    http://www.atlassociety.org/human-spirit...

    For myself, holidays are pretty much rooted in the weather and the calendar, and they remain, even as cultures come and go. Solstice and Equinox are easy. The Fourth of July is always a good reason to celebrate. Take your pick of Labor Days, but I go with May 1, comrade and leave that other one to the opening of the Jewish Fall Fashion Season -- speaking of which, how about Purim and/or Halloween?
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  • Posted by ou812 12 years, 3 months ago
    I always thought the point of Santa Clause was to teach kids the values of doing good through punishment. If your bad then you get coal if your good you get a bike. After all is said and done the child will most likely do better the next year to get the cool toys. However disagreeable some might find the idea of Santa clause for one reason or another it is the lesson learned that count. In that thought why wouldn't there be Sana Clause in the Gulch?
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years, 4 months ago
    We had a Madison-style Santa visit when Santa came to our house last year. We had him come despite our not being Christian or consumerist. Our kids were afraid to talk to him. They went into a bedroom. Santa and Mom (my wife) talked about his work at the UW and with a non-profit providing aid to an African country; maybe it was Mali or Nigeria. I couldn't coax the kids out of the room. Mom gave him some legal advice about the legal structure of their charity and tax-efficient ways for people to contribute. I told the kids Santa was talking about Africa but he wanted to talk to them. The 4 y/o took a picture of the satellite map showing lights from population centers. He said he would like to join the conversation and say Africa would have more light on the map if they had more schools and businesses. I said, "we should all go together." He started to but chickened out.

    So I just went back to the living room to listen to Santa and Mom talk about legal issues. He thankfully didn't invite her to get on his lap. The kids were excited just at the notion of some weird guy in the house, and Mom and Dad made a friend.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years, 4 months ago
    I have heard of other scientific/skeptical people going along with Santa Claus, at least not objecting, so they can learn to be critical of claims of a magical being who gives handouts.

    My kids are 5 and 3, and I think they don't see as clear a distinction between reality and fantasy as I do. They know I don't believe in it, but one kids told me when he was 4 he was choosing to believe. We did leave gifts for them. They're more into the gifts than where they came from.

    Most of the year when they want something we find tasks for them and pay them at the same rate we would pay a nanny to do the tasks. They've been good about that. I fined them $12 for throwing $12 worth of lotion down the drain to see if it dissolve in soapy water. Now he's careful to use cheap lotions for experiments b/c he knows how much work he does earning money. I'm impressed fora 5 y/o. I don't agree with anything about [the mainstream view of] Santa, but I don't sweat it.
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