Economists May have gotten Globilization Wrong

Posted by $ Thoritsu 4 years, 9 months ago to Economics
48 comments | Share | Flag

I couldn't agree more. Nothing is more ironic than a "Union Proud" bumper sticker in Walmart.

While in general, I support simple free trade. I believe that the open trade with China has wiped out our manufacturing industrial base, and that "free trade" is nothing of the sort when they don't play by the same rules. IP is a good example.

Maybe some people can learn.


All Comments

  • Posted by $ 25n56il4 4 years, 9 months ago
    Milton Friedman was my idea of an Economist. Another lifetime.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm with you. I'd eliminate corporate taxes entirely as they're just a hidden tax on consumers in the first place. Just as with obfuscation such as FICA and SS, if taxpayers really understood how much they actually paid in taxes they'd clamor for reform.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Excellent suggestions, blarman. 👍
    I'd eliminate incomes taxes completely on small businesses to encourage more people to take financial responsibility for themselves and their families. Unfortunately, small businesses have no voice in con-gress. Only big (corrupt) business has lobbyists to bribe con-gress and to crush potential competitors in small businesses.
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  • Posted by term2 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Our real problem with China is that we send them peper money with no backing, and they send us goods. If we had to back up our dollars, the prices would be higher for the goods we buy from china, and we would buy less from them. Currently, we just print money thats worth nothing, and they send us goods.
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  • Posted by $ 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I wonder why China's military is an order of magnitude stronger than it was 20 years ago, and growing at a massive pace.

    I don't know about you, but I don't do business with people who steal my property. I would seek to isolate them or at least distance them from me and my friends.

    Your assertion is fine in an open market. No present international market is open, and reciprocal. Your assertion also fails to address non-monotonic, or non-linearities. For example, if a business area is eliminated, reconstructing it is more costly and time consuming than increasing throughput in a present business.

    China increases its economic power by oppressing its people, requiring them to work at low wages and accept low standards of living. Other countries standard of living benefits. However, China has and will continue to use the economic power they receive to further their control and political system. They are stealing IP. They are seeking control of the South China Sea. We have subsidized this, and are creating a liability for ourselves. They will pressure Korea into submission if they can. This use of force is not a reversible, open economic model.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If we all are free to buy the cheapest products through trade in a global market without tariffs or other distortions, consumers will reap the rewards. Our productive resources will naturally flow to our strongest, most skilled economic areas while “outsourcing” others to countries more efficient in a given field. As economist Gregory Mankiw put it, “Americans should work in those industries in which we have an advantage compared with other nations, and we should import from abroad those goods that can be produced more cheaply there.”

    The trade barriers we have in place today prevent this realignment from taking place in full. In doing so, they limit economic growth, decrease wages, and kill far more jobs than they protect. And by lowering its trade barriers, a government enriches its citizens regardless of the policies implemented by foreign governments.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sanctions - you mean withhold American goods, especially agricultural products from going to China? Who covers the American farmers and others from loss? Where does the revenue come from to cover those losses?

    "trade with other Asian countries" - Good idea as long as they aren't screwing us the same as China.

    "form alliances against them" - with whom and how much will that cost?

    There is no way to engage these decades old problems without some kind of hurt to Americans. The tariff tool is the simplest at this point in time. Add in changes in other policies (domestic and international) to aid in repatriating businesses. Temporarily, I may pay more for something made in China at Walmart or Amazon, but eventually I may pay the same or less for the same goods made by my neighbors, who will be working instead of on the dole.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sanctions, trade with other Asian countries vs. China, form alliances against them, etc.
    What is best depends on why you are dong it.
    But it does not need to hurt Americans. Isn't that the main point?
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  • Posted by mccannon01 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The only plan Biden has regarding China is the "Hunter Gets Rich" plan - or something similar but more hidden.
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  • Posted by $ 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Of course they tried to recover their position of control, but it is nice to see the admission.

    Timing is a little suspicious. I wonder if they are paving the way for Biden to offer a different plan to deal with China, that departs from Trump's, and is yet another promise.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 4 years, 9 months ago
    Hmmm. Experts getting things wrong. Seems to be a plague of that going around lately.

    Nice article, Thor. Thanks.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "There are other ways to punish China for whatever they have done to harm the U.S." Can you offer us a list?
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  • Posted by term2 4 years, 9 months ago
    I objected to trump claiming that his tariffs on Chinese goods were paid by the Chinese. That is just totally wrong. Tariffs on Chinese goods coming here are paid by American importers , period
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  • Posted by rhfinle 4 years, 9 months ago
    I've thought for years that our government should have some sort of think tank or directive force that monitors our ability to maintain infrastructure manufacturing - raw materials, nuts & bolts, tools, the basic things that we HAVE to have in case there's a breakdown in the 'global society'. The US did perfectly well without then, pre-WWII. We kept to ourselves and led the world in, well, pretty much everything. That of course wouldn't work, because it would have to be 'bipartisan' (Republicans and Democrats, not Libertarians) and it's primarily the Democrats who are pushing globalization in order to weaken us. Them and, of sourse, fine upstanding Republicans who happen to be making a buck and are so, in China's pocket.
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  • Posted by CaptainKirk 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Reminds me of Microsoft Office...
    When WordPerfect and Lotus were around, it was $99 and good for 3-5 years...

    Once the competition was killed off, MSFT behaved like the monopoly it became. Let's face it, that's kinda the goal... To have price flexibility.
    Oracle is another example. Their licensing model eased up when competition increased. Once they dominated big data, they changed their rules.
    Developers could NO LONGER use the product for free and had to have a license... Then they went one step further, with Draconian License Reviews.
    I know 3 companies who have active plans to remove every Oracle database No Matter the cost.

    Now, that is kinda the free market at work. But I think even the most Ardent Free Market Libertarians know that Monopolies are usually EVIL.
    My last 2 examples: Google (Search... BTW, I use DuckDuckGo), and Social Media ... These are Quasi Private companies GIVEN SPECIAL RIGHTS,
    that are clearly abusing those rights to manipulate in ways that only near monopolies can, and are CLEARLY "Vote Tampering" and "In Kind Contributions"...

    As flawed humans, we will ALWAYS game a system. In some cases it's a good thing... At the extremes... It's at least... "Extreme"... LOL
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  • Posted by tdechaine 4 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, the regulations are bad, and we should not blame the Co.s for leaving.
    No, free trade does not have to go both ways; e.g. China tariffs hurt their people, not ours.
    We can export; it just costs their people more.
    "Fair trade" is not an objective term.
    If we want to punish China, do it for sounder reasons.
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