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I would like to have some better learned Objectivists explain the current political social situation to me

Posted by $ nickursis 4 years, 11 months ago to Philosophy
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I would like to see how Objectivism views/interprets the current politics. Are the Liberals right? The Trump people right? No one right? What would work better, and could actually be achievable?


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  • Posted by JuliBMe 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes. He's a genius of some sort. Definitely, believe it or not, Communications. But, also, economic and STRATEGIC.

    As far as his physical stamina goes, it is amazing. But, I believe that he is on a RIGHTEOUS mission and that is where he is getting his energy. He appears to be aging in REVERSE or in a holding pattern. No president has done so before.

    I would think that has to be the result of doing GOOD vs. doing EVIL. Doing and thinking Evil always degrades you outwardly.
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  • Posted by term2 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    waiting for the 100% objectivist approved political candidate is a formula for allowing really bad candidates to usurp power.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A Hobson's choice, but I agree. But in a Hobson's choice, you do have the right to choose not to partake. In my analogy, fasting is an option, at least temporarily.
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  • Posted by sdesapio 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Right, but if I had to choose between a baloney sandwich that will definitely kill me, and one that might kill me, but also might make me stronger, I'm going with the latter.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Agree. Just should not be solved with tariffs.
    Trump does not seem to understand the options; but his advisors certainly should.
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  • Posted by Doug_Huffman 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The President is the Executive authority of the Administration and not a tyrant. He has the same Frst Amendment Right to Freedom of Speach as all of US, and his minions have the responsibility to follow directions or not. As Constitutional Officers do they not take an Oath to Protect and Defend, just as we veterans did, and does their Oath lose effect on some date or event?

    Trump is a mouthpiece. He is not even the tyrant leader of his party.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I am concerned about the fine line Trump walks, too. He listens to Fauci, but then uses his own mind to govern. Listening to opposing voices is part of customer discovery, but ultimately you have to make your own decisions. I voted for myself rather than Trump during the last election because I knew I could govern myself better, but all in all, I don't think that I would have done a whole lot better than Trump did. Yes, he made some mistakes, but he usually gets rid of those (Sessions, Bolton). The Sessions situation is a great example of how difficult is to navigate through the D.C. swamp. Even forces that are seemingly with you are not.
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  • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't know if you subscribe to there being a "movement" behind the issues we have seen. Many Objectivists do not seem to want to look at events as being engineered, despite a causal relationship. But, Trump needs to wake people up to the reality of what the democrats have done and many will not listen until the brutal reality is in their faces. The CHAZ in Seattle, the defunding of Seattle Police, the riots and looting, where they left it up to the cities. The people who put these liberals into power need to see the cost it exacts. I do believe we will see some large actions in the near future. Notice how HHS has taken COVID 19 reporting away from the CDC? Fox news had an investigation in Florida and the states rate was 76%, yet the total positive detections was at 9% per the hospitals. The bureaucracy has been built over time to be beholding to the old guard dems and repubs, they owe or want to owe Trump nothing, since he is basically taking away a lot of their power and money control.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "All I can say is that you need an economics lesson." That's not an argument, it's a condescending deflection. Try again with something a bit more intelligent, ok?

    "Note that if you like Trump's trade policies, then you will like Biden's as well." Flippant remarks like this do not state your case, either.
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  • Posted by Tavolino 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Your last paragraph is the issue that I'm most worried about. They are egging him on to respond with an authoritative hand. And possibly his threats will keep the "real tyrants" at bay, to buy enough time for the rational locals to restore a semblance of law and order. We both know there are bureaucratic forces that would like to see a heavy-handed answer, and he is walking a fine precarious line. He did not listen to Bolton and hopefully he will discount any drastic actions within our borders.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Objectivism is an inflexible but rational philosophy. Perhaps its inflexibility is the biggest reason for its lack of widescale adoption and its failure to ever be adopted by someone who gets elected as a governing philosophy. All of us would like to have an Objectivist as a minimalist president, but governing does require the ability to adapt to both unintended and intentional disturbances. With regard to COVID, he has governed less than most, although certainly not perfectly, especially to an Objectivist. If he had governed less than he has, he would have certainly been impeached again, but this time he would have been found guilty of dereliction of duty. Be careful what you wish for.

    Every day you see Trump threatening to intervene with regard to riots, but he doesn't intervene. He checks his own power and yet keeps the real tyrants in check with his threats. He is walking a fine line.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    While Trump himself wants to cut back on government's effects on people's lives in many but not all ways, his lack of a philosophical underpinning has resulted in numerous appointments (e.g. John Bolton, Peter Navarro, etc.) that have been inconsistent with the core principles you boldfaced. The choice between Trump and his opposition has been like the choice between a bologna sandwich and a COVID-contaminated bologna sandwich. Either way, it is still baloney.
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  • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Pleas explain, I tend to agree with Mccannon01, there were a lot of behind the scenes manipulation going into Chinas production, and when you have stolen most of your IP to produce, you have an edge to start with, add in an artifically supported currency, then it gets worse. Then add in state ownership of the bulk of the companies, working as shells it gets worse. I think Trump has just called it out in the open. I watched a video a few years ago of a company that made controllers for wind turbines, who was forced out of business when China made the exact same controllers, using their copied hardware and Software. How can challenging that be bad?
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  • Posted by tdechaine 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    All I can say is that you need an economics lesson.
    Note that if you like Trump's trade policies, then you will like Biden's as well.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I did not say that. Sure Obj,ists could support Trump, but for what? Supporting the bad policies that I have noted is is not being objective.
    No Obj.ist should like him. And shame on you comparing his personality with LP and AR. Trump is purely pragmatic, off the cuff, irrational in what he says most of the time.
    For the record, I have met and spoken to both LP and AR. They may have come across as tight and inflexible to some, but that's because they are representing an inflexible but rational philosophy. AR was very appealing.
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