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I would like to have some better learned Objectivists explain the current political social situation to me

Posted by $ nickursis 4 years, 11 months ago to Philosophy
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I would like to see how Objectivism views/interprets the current politics. Are the Liberals right? The Trump people right? No one right? What would work better, and could actually be achievable?


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  • Posted by mia767ca 4 years, 11 months ago
    we are over the cliff...the crash will be nasty...prepare now...
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  • Posted by Tavolino 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is not obvious to me other than the narrative from MSM. Please refer to a specific so I can make a judgement on an individual event rather than broad brush. Not sure why you need to conclude he's no capitalist. That applied definition has many ancillary parts and I'm not sure who your political standard would be. I am fully aware of what capitalism is, but we have to apply our principles to the existing world with all its warts.
    Re China, trade or war are the only alternatives as Rand has said. Our misunderstanding of China has caused us much harm for over a generation. Identifying their metaphysical nature is the first step in moving the ball. Hong Kong, military in S China seas, India incursions, Thailand, and the COVID coverup are just some example of their totalitarian fundamentals.They have exposed their cards and now it's up to us to have them accountable and trade has been lowered in priority to formulate a proper response, at least I hope. Chang and Pillsbury may give you a better perspective.
    With regard to the COVID strategy two fundamental things were done. Rather than seize more power and control, he deregulated many of the needed medical chains and decentralized basic decision making back to the governors. Both a good thing.
    Let's just make real assessments of the current state.
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  • Posted by Abaco 4 years, 11 months ago
    People, in general, are not mentally capable of peacefully solving the current challenges. Instead, they create more challenges.

    This Objectivist’s take...
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  • Posted by tdechaine 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Not subjective at all - the hate is real and the cause is obvious.
    He is no capitalist.
    The inequities with China are not resolved with tariffs - bad economic policy.
    I'm certainly not putting the bulk of the COVID fault on Trump; but COVID strategy and communications has been bad.
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  • Posted by Tavolino 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Your initial sentence is purely subjective with no contextual reference or specifics, and yielding hate is a strong opinion. He may have a lean towards big-government (in the NY tradition), but I don’t think a “welfare-statist.” As his trade policies may appear to be contrary to our free/open market beliefs, he had to play the cards that were dealt with the inequities that were present. One of the only times I heard him utter a principle was when he left the G20 last year saying he’s for open and free trade without governmental restrictions and regulations. And when another country’s tariff is zero, so will ours. The policy appears retaliatory rather than offensive. Same with his immigration policies that have been skewed for years with the entitlements. Hardly a starting point to implement what we believe immigration should be.
    Your conclusion of the handling of COVID and BLM as mostly bad may be based on flawed assumptions. He is neither John Galt nor omniscient and must rely on data supplied to attempt to a rational response. If the data is corrupted (either mistaken or agenda-driven), it is intellectually dishonest to assume he should have known. Just look at Dr. Stadler, I mean Dr. Fauci, who had no scientific integrity. You entirely discount the immense negative forces from all the anti-Trumpers that purposefully want to destroy him.
    But as I said, your opening sentence may tell much of your predetermined biases, rather than any objective observation and discussion.
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  • Posted by Tavolino 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    OB set race relations back 50 years. Then again, it was never about race with him, but the Marxist division.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This is what I've termed the "New Jim Crow". Same as the one that was put to rest in the '60s except the color of the favored people is different. Inculcating the non-favored race (whites) to accept the policy and posture as subservient is what the brainwashing courses are all about (non-whites are to become more assertive as the new master). The phrase "check your privilege" when aimed at a white person isn't so much about any real privilege, but is to elicit the correct response of fealty to the New Jim Crow. The elimination of Jim Crow-like constructs in America was one of the main thrusts of the civil rights movement of the '50s and '60s. It succeeded in as much as millions of white people agreed that Jim Crow was evil and unAmerican, but it obviously failed when the civil rights movement converted to the civil rights industry in the '70s and the New Jim Crow was turned loose.
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  • Posted by Tavolino 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    For a simple comprehensive summary of Rand's philosophy, I suggest you order or download "Pocket Guide to Objectivism" by the Atlas Society.
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  • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't know if that is valid, in that the same groups we see on the street, are in the govt. They create the policies, and the rules. When a law is passed, the implementation is left to a "group" of bureaucrats, who have no concern for the individual. I would say the EPA and it's attacks on individuals where water is used on their property, at both a state and Federal level, as an example. The "group" that formed in the FBI to frame Trump for "Russian Collusion" is another, these "groups seem to set up and then implement any policy or procedure they are told to. I don't think the FBI stooges thought it up on their own...there is evidence to support that assertion.
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  • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is indeed true, the "useful idiots" were a Stalinist tool, and described the arrogance and disdain the Elites hold for everyone. As useful tools they are then thrown away when damaged or broken, which is sad, as they are unaware of their fate...
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  • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    That is true, he is of the Paul Ryan Republican Party, along with NoName McCain, non of them had any thoughts on the individual, just the collective, and their take from it. Tat is the root of the corruption and is identical with Atlas Shrugged storyline. One of the reasons I loved the book, it was a clear indictment of the current political system.
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  • Posted by Tavolino 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, if you don’t value someone there’s no need to inform. But relationships, friends, social interactions, and passing associations provide an essential component to exchange information of all kinds, nourishing a well-balanced psyche. Education of others, on a multitude of levels, is not only rewarding but encourages knowledge acquisition. Cynicism stifles productive growth and ends up being a lonely place.
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  • Posted by Tavolino 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, in the ethical/political sense any collectivist is not an Objectivist. With a conservative it's probably a 50/50 shot. Possibly Biden should pick Romney as there's no other use for him, lol.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 4 years, 11 months ago
    I can't explain the whole thing in one gulp, but I do have something to say. Today's SJWs are not masterminds but "useful idiots" who have been trained by Communists to repeat, teach, and enforce a completely bogus (and ever changing) set of so-called ethical rules called Intersectionality. It seems to me that Peikoff should have cited that, and not just mysticism, as the #1 red flag predictor of doom in The Ominous Parallels.
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  • Posted by bubah1mau 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I personally do not see the "need" to inform anyone of anything unless it's someone I personally, especially value for praiseworthy achievements--someone likely to value the information. For those whom I don't value, I have only one need: distance.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Nothing surprises me about Seattle, or Portland, or San Francisco, or Berkeley, or Hollywood/Los Angeles, or NYC, or Chicago, or Austin, or Atlanta, or least of all the Dark Center.
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  • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I believe you are correct, look at Seattles new "White Retraining" they are doing for proof. The city council went nuts when told they could not just fire whites and was said to tell the Police Chief, "we will find a way around it, and fire the white ones only, so we can have a young and "diverse" force"....go look it up...
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  • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So, BLM calling for "defunding the police" is not a group thing? They advocate giving the money to "local groups". Remember, Al Sharpton is one of those "local groups"...Doesn't seem collectivism is limited to just individuals, and the groups are used to raise the volume and give it legitimacy.
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  • Posted by $ 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would suggest his welfare statist is just using whatever is at hand (i.e we are so far in debt, it won't matter) the system is going to collapse no matter what. I do not know of what trade policies are damaging, in that he has used a protectionist model to balance the one that existed but was unacknowledged. Immigration policies? Covid and BLM have no good solutions that are not manipulable by the lamestream to be wrong and used for "we could have" propaganda. But, call it as you will...
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  • Posted by freedomforall 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I would argue that institutional racism was raised to presidential power with Obama's election.
    Reverse discrimination (racism against whites in particular) has been government (institutional racist) policy for decades.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Again, it is individuals being collectivists, not the "system". If non-political individuals fought back against terror and the welfare-state, then perhaps they could influence the politicians.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 4 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Some of his policies + his non-Presidential behavior yields hate. He is a welfare-statist but not as much as Biden. His trade policies are damaging but so are Biden's. His immigration policies are mostly wrong. His handling of COVID and BLM have been mostly bad.
    Yes, there are good policies as well.....
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