NY Arrogance At Fault - Travel From New York City Seeded Wave of U.S. Outbreaks
Posted by freedomforall 3 years, 11 months ago to Politics
"The central role of New York’s outbreak shows that decisions made by state and federal officials — including waiting to impose distancing measures and to limit international flights — helped shape the trajectory of the outbreak and allowed it to grow in the rest of the country."
“Excuse our arrogance as New Yorkers — I speak for the mayor also on this one — we think we have the best health care system on the planet right here in New York,” Mr. Cuomo said on March 2. “So, when you’re saying, what happened in other countries versus what happened here, we don’t even think it’s going to be as bad as it was in other countries.” https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/ny...
“Excuse our arrogance as New Yorkers — I speak for the mayor also on this one — we think we have the best health care system on the planet right here in New York,” Mr. Cuomo said on March 2. “So, when you’re saying, what happened in other countries versus what happened here, we don’t even think it’s going to be as bad as it was in other countries.” https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/ny...
That tone continued even after the first positive case was announced on March 1.
“Everybody is doing exactly what we need to do,” said Mr. Cuomo, seated with Mr. de Blasio, at a news conference on March 2. “We have been ahead of this from Day 1.”
Then the scumbags repeatedly blamed Trump for their own incompetence.
Incorrect. The POTUS has zero responsibility, and zero authority.
" When the pandemic did hit the us, he provide no leadership in how the states should respond. "
You don't know the timeline or you would not make such a claim with honesty. Let us examine that timeline to demonstrate your claim is invalid.
Jan 1: China was reporting they had dozens of cases of a new virus. Who is ready to panic at that point? This happens often and usually doesn't become a pandemic. No need for action at this point.
Jan 11: First known death. Again, not a cause for any other country to be doing anything about it.
Jan 20: First U.S case, along with other countries. Again, no cause for pandemic action because there is no pandemic at this point. For a pandemic to exist there are criteria that involve community spread in multiple countries simultaneously in multiple WHO regions. This has not yet happened. It is not that uncommon for things to reach this stage and never progress to a pandemic. China states the virus can now transmit between humans, a key requirement.
Jan 23: Wuhan cut off by Chinese government. Well, for internal travel anyway. At this point there were 17 deaths and under 600 known cases. Not a pandemic. These numbers include cases in 6 countries, with zero community spread outside of Wuhan.
Jan 28: And advisor at the VA medical dept. openly asks why the WHO and the CDC are "downplaying" the virus. They aren't based on what was known at the time, but for some they see more. Sometimes they are right, but in the vast majority of cases the feared scenario never comes to fruition.
Jan 29: Trump administration forms the corona virus task force.
Jan 30: Who declares "public health emergency of international concern" due to thousands of cases in Wuhan. Still, not a pandemic and no clear threat to the U.S. China extends their travel restrictions to include the province Wuhan is in.
Jan 31: Trump administration restricts travel from China - gets called racist and xenophobic by Democrats, accusing him of fear mongering. Note: still no pandemic. Still no community spread. Still no deaths outside of China. Most of the public still has no idea this is even going on. Meanwhile the Democrats in charge of various states and cities, including NY and NYC, not only dismiss the actions of the administration but actively tell people to go congregate in Chinatown. Also, Trump's committee declares a national health emergency over it - retroactively to the 27th.
Feb 2: First death outside of China.
Now think really hard about the events of Jan 31 compared to Feb 2. Trump's committee he formed (personally) has already declared a public health emergency, yet only now, two days later, has there been a death outside of China, and a pittance of cases outside of China.
Feb 5: The first cruise ship gets quarantined by Japan. Impeachment sham finally ends.
Feb 7: U.S. announces it has sent/donated 18m tons of medical supplies to China. Nobody complains we need those.
Feb 11: The disease caused by the virus gets its acronym name of COVID-19.
Feb 14: A memo for Trump on potential measures for isolation and quarantine is prepared but not given to him.
Feb 21: said task force runs a mock response scenario and concludes we will likely need significant social distancing
Feb 23: Europe becomes the first significant outbreak outside of mainland China - in Italy. By "significant" in this case it is >150 cases. However, the community spread is extant but minor as almost all cases were either travel or close continuous contact with those who did. Still no pandemic.
Feb 25: Army medical raises the pandemic chance level to "within 30d", report makes to to the Chiefs in a couple of days. Again, not yet a pandemic but Army medical thinks it will become one. This is the first solid assertion that it will do so.
Feb 29: First U.S. death, Trump puts additional restrictions on travel, gets slammed again over it, and again accused of trying to scare Americans for election reasons. Fauci tells the public the risk is low and not a significant concern.
March 3: CDC announces removal of restrictions on testing
March 9: About 10 states have declared a state of emergency. This will be explained below.
March 11: Trump extends travel restrictions to Europe. Still being accused of panicking and xenophobia.WHO declares it a pandemic.
March 13: Trump declares national emergency.
March 15: CDC recommends no gatherings >50
March 16: Trump says to cut gatherings to <10,NYC closes schools.
March 17: France goes on lockdown, EU blocks outside travel.
March 21: Hawaii orders mandatory quarantine of 2 weeks for inbound travellers.
March 23: Britain lockdown
March 24: India lockdown, no Olympics
March 28: CDC issues travel advisories for the NY region
March 30: Most states do some form of lockdown.
"When the pandemic did hit the us, he provide no leadership in how the states should respond" as shown, this is not true - even if we accept it is the POTUS' responsibility to do so.
"New York state has no authority to prevent international flights."
Actually, yes they do. Limited and requires specific causes but a state does have the authority to stop flights coming into it. Whether it should or not, it does. Note that by the time we had a pandemic, Trump had already been blocking flights and getting roasted over it.
"For example, deos NY state have the authority to order there own lockdowns, force businesses to close down, and so on? "
Wrong question. Does the the office of POTUS have that authority? The answer to that is an unequivocal "no, it does not". There is limited authority under declared states of emergency for States, Cities, and Counties to do so, but there is zero authority for the POTUS. The states of emergency are what allow both the state to do things it ordinarily can not, and triggers and opens actions by the federal government - actions it is prohibited by law from doing until that event.
To give you an idea of how important this is, by March 9th the federal government had already quarantined people over the virus - for the first time in more than fifty years. And it was getting pushback by the states telling it that isn't legal - it is the State's job and authority.
You're claiming Trump did nothing, yet the record shows that not only is that false, he was getting roasted by Democrats, Media, and the State agencies for the actions you claim he never initiated or took.
This is why they have pivoted to "well he didn't say this and said that" games because the hard reality is they were attacking him over his actions that are now being claimed never happened. Its called gaslighting, and it shouldn't be happening, especially here.
Cuomo had the authority to declare a health emergency early on. But that would have put the State health department in charge of the response rather than himself. New York's actions didn't start until the first week or so of March - more than a month after Trump declared a national health emergency.
March 5th Cuomo and deBlasio were on talk shows confirming cases and community spread. Now lets get into the naughty bits. On that same day De Blasio said people should go ahead and keep riding the subway and going about normal lives - then took a subway ride to prove to NYers that they are fine. Think about that and explain to me how you can blame Trump for "not leading" by blocking travel and declaring a national health emergency, not to mention the response team, almost six weeks before the mayor of NYC does this, and somehow claim "NY had to do something" and had no leadership. The leadership in NY was playing politics.
Then it gets worse. The next day suddenly DeBlasio blames the federal government for not giving them PPE already - and the article came out the day he finally placed an order.
March 7 Cuomo declares a state of emergency. Not a health one, mind you. Here is the delcaration: https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/no-2... notice in there it acknowledges the declarations and existence of the Pence team and state of national health emergency. Kind of hard to do that if it hadn't happened.
"Even now, Trump has provide nothing more than guidelines for states to reopen thier economies. "
Compared to what? The administration did not put the lockdowns in place, and lacks the authority to do so. Likewise, Trump can't make them get rid of them either. That requires court action by citizens to force the constitutionality and other problems with them. It is possible the DoJ could sue the states to force them to abide by the constitution but we know where that would go: the SCOTUS - the states in question are already fighting the administration on what they can and can't do to each other.
Despite what the Progressives want, Trump isn't a dictator and doesn't have the authority to be one. Do you seriously think NY would pay attention to him now, when they not only didn't before they mocked and opposed him on it? Look at the various state vs. county problems we've seen. California govt. said go ahead and open things up a bit and counties and cities said "don't do that".
In Texas Abbot countered that when he announced our easing by saying his rules override and and all local ones on those subjects. Why? Because we've seen that in other states fail when lacking that assertion.
Your entire screed here is baseless and demonstrably false. Further, and more disturbingly, you are essentially arguing for the office of the POTUS to have Mussolini level control; just as FDR did and Obama lamented that he didn't have.
If NY wants to secede, let them. If California does, let them. Demcorats won't let that happen though. They will block it because that ensures Republican control of the United States for quite some time and because enough of them know CA would crash hard thus making the failure of Democrat rule obvious to the world.
Note that none of the above talks about the assumption that it is the responsibility of the POTUS to tell you how to avoid an illness. I actually trust the masses to judge that on their own better than government. And the data backs me up, as the data shows people had started distancing at higher levels about 2-3 weeks before the states told them they had to. That is something most pundits aren't taking into account in the growing resistance to being forced to - we've been at it longer than the imperial decrees.
On one hand, you are arguing that Trump could not reasonable response to this crisis due to the challenges he had to deal with from COVID-19, Democrats, and attacks the media. As an aside, Trump attacks Democrats and the media all the time and I would say he gets what he gives there, but I digress. Yet, on the other hand, New York state, when face with the same problem, are completely incompetent in their response, even though Trump initially didn't do much to help them be successful to begin with. It's like you trying to have your cake and it eat it too.
Now, I don't defend New York State response to COVID-19 crisis, but what I am saying is the failure of New York State is own in part by the Federal Government, by failing to provide enough support Whether you like it or not, Trump is the president and he owns the Federal response to this crisis. I would say Federal response has been poor to say least. Of course, COVID-19 has been a virus that caught all off guard. I should also point out that we shouldn't playing the blame game here, but I didn't start it. I was merely pointing out if there is someone who is blame it is the president. He is the one person who could act to handle the crisis effectively or he is the one that can serious mock it up. Trump seriously mock it up.
Of course, he still have a chance to patch things up, but so far I am not impressed and I think he setting us up for even more misery from the COVID-19. We still don't know for sure everyone that has been expose and we don't have enough testing capacity. The medical capacity needs to increase as well to deal with a surge in cases. Of course, it might be the case the economy can't wait. Trump seems to think that real threat is the failing economy, he could be right on that point. However, he can't ignore COVID-19 in process. Please stop defending his COVID-19 response, stop blaming the democrats, when they are not even in charge, please just stop it with the partisanship nonsense. Trump is an idiot and just come to terms with that please.
I disagree that the federal government is responsible for the health of Americans. In fact, the federal government has made very few rational actions that are constitutionally valid in the past 60 years including most of the actions taken in response to the virus. The people and their state governments do have the authority to protect themselves. (See US Constitution 10th Amendment.)
In addition, I completely disagree that Trump is most responsible. This is not an absolute monarchy or a dictatorship regardless of how many times the media attempt to portray Trump as such.
Could Trump have made better decisions? Yes, if he was omniscient he might have. The media will assure that Trump is blamed regardless of the facts. Nothing is clearer than the media's obvious bias against Trump for political reasons.
Obama had depleted the national supply of PPE, and failed to replenish them. Was it Trump's fault he didn't know that intuitively, as I'm sure the Obama team didn't tell his incoming staff?
Democrats in the House were too busy with impeachment to even recognize the pandemic, at a time when the White House was working to address national efforts to control it. If anyone should be blamed for disregarding the crisis, it's the Democrat party, across the board.
President Trump has nothing to do with it but Governor Cuomo and my local officials do. Many of the most highly infected NYC residents that come here are of the Orthodox Jewish faith. They are a major voting block in NY politics. Most of the local year round residents don't want them coming here during this pandemic and it has absolutely nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the health and safety yet we get labeled as anti semitic.
Our hospitals are tiny compared to those in NYC and so too are our stores and we already have empty shelves. If our population here doubles or triples in the next month we will be the latest epicenter. If you insist upon blaming Trump then add China and the previous administration to your list of ill prepared officials. We here already know our foolish Governor is more interested in votes than he is in the health of our area and he will not keep this disease contained in NYC. He already forced nursing homes to accept infected persons and over 30% of the deaths in this state are in those homes and a direct result of his orders. Hating Trump will do nothing but make you feel better!
Don't get me wrong, I know that I may be misinformed, but do you really think you have all facts straight?
let me introduce you to snopes.com. They are a hard left outlet that goes out of their way to twist things said by non-hard-lefties into looking bad. They declared your claim there false. Trump never claimed the virus was a "liberal plot". Even "fact-checkers" rated those claims as false.
" But you know you can call me a Trump Hater but that does not prove me wrong"
Correct, it merely explains why you're spreading lies. The rest of your lies have been shown to be such in another post so no need to repeat that here.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tru...
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02...
From Politico: "Then Trump called the coronavirus “their new hoax.”" Actually this line is not a quote from Trump, it is a spin.
From Snopes: "During a Feb. 28, 2020, campaign rally in South Carolina, President Donald Trump likened the Democrats' criticism of his administration's response to the new coronavirus outbreak to their efforts to impeach him, saying "this is their new hoax." During the speech he also seemed to downplay the severity of the outbreak, comparing it to the common flu." This is also not a direct quote from Trump's speech, but is spin similar in nature to the above from Politico.
After the above spin Snopes comes clean: "Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax."
Even Politico sort of admits its spinning here: “The Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. They're politicizing it,” he said. “They don't have any clue. They can't even count their votes in Iowa. No, they can't. They can't count their votes. One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.’ That did not work out too well. They could not do it. They tried the impeachment hoax.” In reality, Trump isn't calling C-19 a hoax, he's calling the democrat politicizing of the virus a hoax - and the dems are still at it to this day.
"The point is Trump dropped the ball and failed to take the threat seriously until it was late in the game." It looks like you've swallowed all the snarky split hairs the I-Hate-Trump media put out. I find it hard to believe you can still make such a statement after the timeline TheRealBill posted to one of your other posts above and even more could be added to that timeline. IMHO, Trump did the best any leader could have done - and he worked overtime to maintain a sense of optimism even when things were looking abysmal - and the snarky media railed him for that, too. It's OK to admit that.
Now with that said, obviously your sources have failed to address an interesting question and that has to do with bidding for supplies. That question is why, especially when dealing with foreign (mainly Chinese) suppliers, are the States getting involved in the bidding process? Keep in mind most bidding for resources from suppliers is blind with the highest bidder getting the goods. "Blind" means the bidders don't know who the other bidders are. In many cases it is illegal for suppliers to divulge who the bidders are while the bidding process is going on. Therefore, when Massachusetts bids and Texas bids and Illinois bids and the Federal government bids, the only thing the states do is drive up the cost of the goods. The federal government, of course, has sworn to acquire and supply goods for the states in this emergency, so damn the cost. The winners are the Chinese manufacturers and they are laughing all the way to the Bank Of China. The losers are American taxpayers. The clueless whiners are the democrats blaming what they don't really understand on Trump - and they will NEVER understand it as long as they waste their time on frivolous blame games.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03/3...
Here is another source but not specific to mass:
https://www.cato.org/blog/federal-gov...
For me, a claim from a person who is biased is not a "fact" unless corroborated by an unbiased source.
Thanks for providing another source that has been a reliable source (albeit based upon a biased report from the LA Times.).
I find it believable that FEMA, a gigantic federal agency with broad (often unconstitutional) powers was responding as described, and doing so without Trump's knowledge or participation. FEMA has always been run by bureaucrats under every administration. Prior administrations, e.g., Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama, consistently expanded power over the states, while Trump has acted to relinquish more power to the states and their own people as the US Constitution established in the 10th amendment. That would obviously clash with federal bureaucrats who live to expand their own power, and Con-gress has given them a free hand to do so when "emergency" conditions exist. Sources including Democratic con-gress people, candidates for office, and liberal biased newspapers like the LA Times and Boston Globe would not have complained about that overreach and conflict with the states if one of their liberal cartel were sitting in the Oval Office. Blaming Trump for the actions of a bureaucracy that was created by Democrats under Carter and constantly expanded by con-gress is hypocrisy. It is designed to embarrass one who did not give the orders and to manipulate the minds of voters. They irrationally complain when Trump takes action that he is a dictator and irrationally complain that he should take power when he fulfills his oath to obey the constitution. Blaming Trump is hypocritical, biased rubbish, unworthy of objectivists.
The author of the cited article, Chris Edwards, seems to lean more towards the states and local authorities handling a crisis as much as possible before appealing to the Federal Government, which I agree with. In his third "here" of his "here, here, and here" set of links he gives a nicely written voluminous history of disaster response culminating in the leviathan we know as FEMA. Note this linked article was written on 12/1/2014 while Obama was in the WH and before Trump entered the political arena. He seems to be presenting a theme that central planning power in a crisis in many cases can lead to errors and abuses and bureaucratic agencies (like FEMA) that have been granted that power may operate without waiting for official permission or oversight.
He notes that bureaucratic indifference to oversight practice in this paragraph:
"Although President Trump has directed states and hospitals to secure what supplies they can, the federal government is quietly seizing orders, leaving medical providers across the country in the dark about where the material is going and how they can get what they need to deal with the coronavirus pandemic."
Chris Edwards strongly alludes that FEMA is the culprit but only names names in a few examples. If all this is true, then it seems the Trump administration needs to put a thumb on FEMA.
With that said, the part of the quote, "...leaving medical providers across the country in the dark about where the material is going and how they can get what they need..." is still a slight misnomer because the Trump administration is dealing closely with the governors of the states to make sure they get what they ask for - and governors have substantiated that claim.
But they know that exposing those "qualities" won't change voters minds to support the socialist state and vote against Trump. The mainstream media are acting abominably. They are even worse than Trump in their arrogance and untruthful, biased "reporting" that is nothing more than political propaganda.
https://www.cato.org/blog/federal-gov...
First it is an example of the problems of living in these urban shitholes piled upon one another. Secondly, if everyone decided to leave these shitholes, they would likely move into my neighborhood......damned if I do and damned if I don't. These shitholes are the result of the Agenda21 plan of the UN to save the open spaces for the privileged few and push all others into a controlled space to be controlled.
Involuntary servitude. Actions of one that compel another to the consequences. I believe that was Milton Friedman's term for it. Excellent concept.
This sort of thing should play well in November.
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.[1]
The 16th Amendment could be legally exercised to make us all slaves. Most of us are just 30% slaves now.
Milton used the concept to apply to pollution, which I find useful and novel.
Send the infected elderly to the nursing homes so we can do a little planned genocide of all those old and useless citizens. Then we can blame it all on Trump and win the election with a bigger idiot who can't remember his name and everything will be just as they planned. Pelosi looks like the Botox is coming out of her eyelid and effecting her lips but Trump is the problem and cause of the China virus. Eric Holder is on the march and it's all Trump's fault as the hidden files are coming to light. The liberals are fully Puckered and don't have a clue where all of this is going while the rest of us are patiently awaiting the Perp Walks once that "Traitor" AG Bill Barr rounds up all the bad actors. Over in Russia Putin is laughing and in China XI is building up his military while our own Fake News is hammering away on the one man who can handle all this crap. We are living in the strangest of times in my 68 years and all I can hope is I get to see the democrat house of cards come tumbling down.
https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/04/...
The Coronavirus War between America and China, who will win?
It may not be either; when it comes to pandemics, city-states do better than empires. The Taiwans, the South Koreas, and the Singapores.
The United States has- Department of Health and Human Services the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Food and Drug Administration and the Public Health Service, the National Disaster Medical System. all failed.
Big problem needs big government?
This is what it does: agencies, laws, reports, PowerPoint presentations… and then — when the endlessly discussed crisis actually happens — paralysis, panic.
History shows that plagues tend to be bad for big empires with weak frontiers.
2019, 'Global Health Security Index' ranked the US first and the UK second in the world in terms of their ‘global health security capabilities’! (I'll put up more on the UK performance)
A new league table of coronavirus health safety by the 'Deep Knowledge Group' puts Israel, Singapore, New Zealand, Hong Kong and Taiwan at the top.
What helps- dis-economies of scale, controlled paranoia- Taiwan, Israel.
By contrast, the big global players — China, the United States and the EU — have all done terribly, each in their own distinctive way.
The US has the chance to address the two biggest defects of its system: the confusion of politics with showbiz (which produced Trump) and the chronic sclerosis of the deep state (which also produced Trump).
A quite severe assessment, the final paras give some optimism.
(Do not confuse Niall Ferguson with Neil ..)