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Objectivism and Covid-19

Posted by sdesapio 9 months, 4 weeks ago to Philosophy
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From the article: "In the current situation of a pandemic, the lockdown of offices and businesses, and economic losses, it is easy to lose one’s way in confusion, fear, resentment, or depression. It is all the more important to have a philosophical compass to steer by—principles that hold true of life as such, even in abnormal times."

FULL ARTICLE: https://atlassociety.org/commentary/c...
SOURCE URL: https://atlassociety.org/commentary/commentary-blog/6395-objectivism-and-covid-19


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  • Posted by Mamaemma 9 months, 4 weeks ago
    Excellent article. For me, the only way I made it through the 8 years of Obama was to remind myself everyday of all the things I had to be grateful for. I always felt I was being somewhat like a Pollyanna, but it was what kept me from being depressed. So I am gratified to read this article. Thanks
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  • Posted by $ HarmonKaslow 9 months, 4 weeks ago
    “Devotion to the truth is the hallmark of morality; there is no greater, nobler, more heroic form of devotion than the act of a man who assumes the responsibility of thinking.”
    ― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

    During this time of crisis, truth is what the populace needs, too.
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  • Posted by term2 9 months, 4 weeks ago
    I think each person should be able to decide how he wants to fight an infection, NOT the government forcing me to close my business, but not forcing others to close theirs.

    So if you have a grocery store, you can be open, but other retail stores have to close??? The governmenet is destroying our economy and our freedoms- and its all for 5000 people who have supposedly died due to this virus who wouldnt have died anyway due to something else (and half of them are in NYC).
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 9 months, 4 weeks ago
      term, think of this: If it is such a huge burden and impact, for so few people who already are at deaths door knocking loudly, then why? Why would such draconian precautions be needed? What is the logic? The answers to that may be disturbing but can tell you a lot of what is happening and where we are going.
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      • Posted by term2 9 months, 3 weeks ago
        Could it be that the government is listening to its own mantra- dont let a good "crisis" go to waste?
        They are shutting down the whole economy apparetly to save fewer people by far than the regular flue kills every year. I think a better approach is to isolate the old and sick, but let the young and resilient just deal with the virus and recover from it and get immunity from it. THEN the old and sick can come back out after herd immunity makes them safe.
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        • Posted by $ nickursis 9 months, 3 weeks ago
          I have found only a specific group abide by that theory. It is credited to Rham Emmanuel a classic deep state crony demonrat.
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          • Posted by term2 9 months, 3 weeks ago
            I just downloaded a kindle book on the Spanish flu, which was many times worse than the Kung flu of today. That was back in the day where they practiced the opposite of social distancing and actually promoted mingling of sick and well people- with disastrous results. Spanish flu pretty much attacked and killed people of all ages no matter if they were healthy. If they ceased travel they could have prevented a lot of deaths. But it was during ww1
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          • Posted by ewv 9 months, 3 weeks ago
            Almost anyone will apply his own premises when dealing with a crisis. The more strongly he embraces them the more he pushes them in a crisis.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 months, 4 weeks ago
    Thank you. For the first time in decades, I'm now reminded of advice I heard as a child way, way before 73-(million)-year-old me dino first heard of Ayn Rand when the AS DVDs came out.
    Wish I could remember who the heck told me that "Trees that cannot bend with strong winds can break."
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    • Posted by 25n56il4 9 months, 4 weeks ago
      I like your quote. A learned gentleman (medical profession) said to me when I was young, 'You may bend, but you will never break'. What a ride I have had! I despise those who say 'You will get over this!' A better one is 'You will get through this.'
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 9 months, 4 weeks ago
        Reminds me of a quote I can't quite completely recall from a movie I can't recall at all.
        "To go through (whatever the problem is) is the only way (to get) out (of it)."
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 months, 4 weeks ago
    The balance between protecting liberty and prosperity and having a world with coming back to after the economic devastation seen in Atlas Shrugged and now in real life in the COVID-19 situation is a very delicate one.

    We have several fine authors in this forum. Perhaps one of you should write a COVID-19 based sequel to Atlas Shrugged.
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    • Posted by term2 9 months, 4 weeks ago
      if people were left to protect themselves from this virus, but the government didnt "protect" us by trampling on our rights, the economy might shrink a bit but would suffer no permanent damage.

      This way, the economy is shut down, and to "fix" that, we destroy the value of the dollars that some of us are relying on so as to live the rest of our lives.
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  • Posted by $ Dobrien 9 months, 4 weeks ago
    Sorry it is not a fact. “The lockdown is a political reality – a government policy, yes, not a fact of nature – but it's the situation we are in now. For us as individuals, it too has to be accepted as fact.”

    Trump on a nationwide lockdown: 'I don't think we'll ever find that necessary'
    Why There’s No National Lockdown
    Enforcing a large-scale quarantine would be legally murky, even if it’s what the country needs to slow the spread of the coronavirus.
    MARCH 31, 2020
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    • Posted by ewv 9 months, 4 weeks ago
      The orders are from state governors, covering almost everyone:

      "Thirty-eight states, Washington, DC, and Puerto Rico have issued stay-at-home orders, encouraging isolation measures to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

      "Some metro areas in states without such orders — including Birmingham, Alabama; Salt Lake City, Utah; and Houston and Dallas, Texas — are also under stay-at-home orders.

      "In total, that brings about 90% of America's population, or about 297 million people, under some form of lockdown.
      " https://www.businessinsider.com/us-ma...

      You are right that it's "legally murky" and that Trump didn't personally order it himself, but it's here and the trend has become worse as more and more and controls have been progressively added over time in about the last month. They have largely been presented as frantic, inconsistent edicts with little or no explanation beyond 'we must act'.

      The massive shutdown of the economy and flooding with government money that does not exist are devastating, and so is the threat of the additional statist controls not going away as frightened people become accustomed to acquiescing to more government edits and restrictions in the name of "necessary".

      The necessity of temporary quarantine to protect individuals against physical spread of disease has been replaced by an almost anything-goes statist mentality.

      That mentality of accepting and imposing statism as "natural" is terrible, and will most likely accelerate the growth of collectivism that the leftist ideologues already wanted and demanded. There is less and less willingness to object.

      As Ayn Rand observed, this country has come out of every war with less freedom than which it went into them. The "war" mentality now is leading to the same.

      Even the claims that the economy will come back are misleading. It may very well revive, and probably will, but most likely not all at once and not the same as it was.

      The extent and progress of revival will depend on freedom to make it possible. To the extent that government maintains controls and high taxes the way it did in the Great Depression, recovery will be thwarted and slowed.

      The New Deal "emergency" controls prevented recovery for a decade and the economy did not recover until after WWII after the worst of the controls (including price controls and rationing) were lifted. Grocery stores, deliveries, etc. continued to exist, most survived it, and some people thrived, but it remained a national depression with widespread deprivation and poverty far longer than was necessary.

      But even claiming that all is well after a recovery is misleading. It is collectivist: The "economy" can come back, but it won't be with the same individuals, many of whom are being destroyed.
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      • Posted by ewv 9 months, 3 weeks ago
        Trump did not personally issue the state shutdown orders but has obviously encouraged and approves them. Treasury Secretary Mnuchin just told Lou Dobbs "We've shut down the US economy."
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        • Posted by $ Dobrien 9 months, 3 weeks ago
          Evidence please, that “Trump obviously encouraged and approved them”. Mnuchin is stating the obvious of what has happened. Governors issue the states directives.
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          • Posted by ewv 9 months, 3 weeks ago
            The evidence is from watching Trump's own daily speeches on the topic.

            Mnuchin is his Secretary of the Treasury. He said on the Lou Dobbs show: "WE'VE shut down the US economy."

            Trump also at the televised signing ceremony, where he passed out pens, basked in the record-setting $2 trillion spending bill that he openly asked for.
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            • Posted by $ Dobrien 9 months, 3 weeks ago
              EWE. facts matter.

              Nine governors continue to drag their feet on issuing stay-at-home directives.

              Some say they fear lockdowns could harm their states' economies, while others think their residents can help curb the spread of coronavirus by using their own good judgments. The states are Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah and Wyoming.
              Dr. Anthony Fauci, a member of the White House coronavirus task force, recently told CNN’s Anderson Cooper the federal government should move to place the entire country under a stay-at-home order to curb the spread of coronavirus.

              "I don't understand why that's not happening,” Fauci said, "If you look at what's going on in this country, I just don't understand why we're not doing that. We really should be.”
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              • Posted by ewv 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                Saying that a few governors have "dragged their feet" and that Fauci thinks the "federal government should move to place the entire country under a stay-at-home order" and "[doesn't understand why that's not happening", while pronouncing that "facts matter", does not refute anything:

                "Facts matter":

                "The orders are from state governors, covering almost everyone:

                "Thirty-eight states, Washington, DC, and Puerto Rico have issued stay-at-home orders, encouraging isolation measures to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

                "Some metro areas in states without such orders — including Birmingham, Alabama; Salt Lake City, Utah; and Houston and Dallas, Texas — are also under stay-at-home orders.

                "In total, that brings about 90% of America's population, or about 297 million people, under some form of lockdown." https://www.businessinsider.com/us-ma...

                https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...

                "Trump did not personally issue the state shutdown orders but has obviously encouraged and approves them. Treasury Secretary Mnuchin just told Lou Dobbs 'We've shut down the US economy."

                https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...
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            • Posted by $ Dobrien 9 months, 3 weeks ago
              Trump is letting the doctors Give the guidance.
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              • Posted by ewv 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                Doctors give guidance all the time. State governors shutting down most activity covering about 90% of people nationally in accordance with the Trump administration's desires and approval are government orders, not "guidance".
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                • Posted by $ Dobrien 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                  There is no federal order to lockdown.. spin it how you like.
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                  • Posted by ewv 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                    That is a strawman. I wrote several times that the orders are coming from state governors, with Trump encouragement and approval. That is not "spin".
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                    • Posted by $ Dobrien 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                      An opinion that Trump encouraged and approved a lockdown is no evidence. Everything else is moot.
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                      • Posted by ewv 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                        The Trump administration is openly supporting and encouraging the lockdowns on a daily basis.

                        "Treasury Secretary Mnuchin just told Lou Dobbs 'We've shut down the US economy.'"

                        That is administration policy on the virus situation, not some irrelevant "opinion". Facts are not "moot", even when they contradict Trump idolatry trying to rewrite reality.
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                        • Posted by $ Dobrien 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                          TDS is unbecoming. Why claim Idolatry .That is an insult of course.
                          Idolatry is the worship of an idol or cult image, being a physical image, such as a statue, or a person in place of God .idolatry connotes the worship of something or someone other than God as if it were God.
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                          • Posted by ewv 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                            Idolatry, as in "Trump idolatry", means "immoderate attachment or devotion to something". This common usage has nothing to do with the anachronistic meaning from religion and its irrational "blasphemy" condemnations.

                            There is however a psychological connection through the rampant subjectivism, for example dismissing facts that happen to be unpleasantly related to Trump as "derangement".
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                            • Posted by $ Dobrien 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                              Always you make your own definition up. Very leftist tactic. From 9 hrs ago..“We’ve got to get this country open again,”
                              @realDonaldTrump
                              said in response to more questions about need for more aggressive anti-COVID measures.
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                              • Posted by ewv 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                                'Idolatry' meaning "immoderate attachment or devotion to something" is from Merriam Webster. Webster's has it as "The worship of idols" or "Blind adoration", where 'idol' is "An image that is worshiped" or "Or one that is blindly adored".

                                This is common usage of the term 'idolatry', not subjectively "always making up definitions". We don't need a dictionary to know the contemporary usage of such a common word. It has nothing to do with archaic terminology referring to dogmas of religious sins, which is irrelevant.

                                There is, of course, the common psychological theme of subjectivism, which accounts for the etymology.

                                Trump's saying "we've got to get this country open again" acknowledges that it is now closed due to government policy.

                                A few days ago he announced that the 'shutdown' is extended for another month, when it will be reevaluated. They are predicting a surge in infections over the next few weeks, which may very well happen in some areas.

                                Trump also previously said he doesn't want the "cure to be worse than the disease", but it didn't stop him from endorsing the widespread shutdown across the country.

                                There is no controversy over what in fact government policy, including Trump, is doing and is intended to do to shut down the economy for an indeterminate time, only controversy over evaluation, and some who idolize Trump are emotionally defensive about it while others are praising him for the same actions.

                                Some kind of quarantining and separation is required for at least some areas of population, especially after governments at all levels so badly botched preparedness, but not a sweeping shutdown destroying people's lives and health.

                                They have been back to the mentality of "destroying the village to save it", the infamous excuse in the Vietnam War for entirely annihilating a village. Remember that?
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                  • Posted by $ nickursis 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                    Truth, guidance to shelter in place and social distance is not a lockdown. I do not know of any state with a real lockdown (maybe NTC?) since all say "essential workers". Essential is vague, in Oregon Intel is "essential"...they donate big money...
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                    • Posted by ewv 9 months, 3 weeks ago
                      Everyone knows what "lockdown" means. Ordering businesses to close is not "guidance". The state lists of what is and isn't deemed essential and fully or partially allowed to remain open are specific, though evolving and contradictory. The rationales for what is deemed "essential" are vague and contradictory.
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  • Posted by $ Dobrien 9 months, 3 weeks ago
    Mr Kelly from the Atlas Society. I agree with much of what he said but once again , I am reminded how brainwashed this country is. This event that the whole world will never forget. The first time in history the worlds economy has been shut down.

    Mr Kelly wrote :”Be rational in looking for information. The internet is a fabulous resource, but it is also a petri dish for fake news, conspiracy theories, and the like – which are all the more prevalent in times of crisis. Don't fall for it.”
    What does this mean? Just listen to the “respected” talking heads or the mainstream narrative. That is a Petri dish . Here is a trusted source https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2...
    Don’t fall for it? These talking have been controlled and parrot the deep state cabals message. How does this grab you Mr Kelly https://mobile.twitter.com/chrisbergP... Every rock , nook and cranny should be examined. BTW Mr Kelly a conspiracy is a group of people colluding to do evil. A theory is taking facts and trying to figure out what happened. Theory is a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something,
    From what I have learned about this. A massive investigation into the origins is crucial. Mr Kelly can think someone eating a bat at a market in China caused this {{rapid spread}} . These markets have operated for eons in China but now they are a Qreat risk. Bullshit I say.
    This rapid spread is unprecedented. The extremely contagious nature is as well. A rational person might ask is it possibly a weaponized bioweapon?. Who has those capabilities?
    Just prior to the break out Wuhan had 100,000 people from over 100 nations that all leave at the same time. Could that be how it spread world wide? With an American dying every 7 mins on average from the flu , I wonder what those numbers look like after this pandemic started. Are they being now designated as having died from Covid19? https://mobile.twitter.com/chrisbergP... If the CDC says expect between 1.6 million to 200,000 deaths, why haven’t they all been fired? FuQing incompetence. I think Mr Kelly needs to be reprogrammed to not rush to judgement when so many Questions are unanswered
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    • Posted by Lucky 9 months, 3 weeks ago
      All health epidemics/plagues, over the last 20 years, and 10 centuries, have come from China. I will stand corrected if it is not all but only say 9 out of 10. Back in the 13 hundreds it took years to spread, now with direct flights Wuhan to Milan, hours. I think there was a big inflow to the US from China early, Jan, in 2020.
      It is known for certain how they spread, how they start is not certain but there is evidence of pathogens evolving and transmitting across species, some species get the symptoms, some just transmit. This is made faster by human eating of species known for conveying disease before individual members die from it, namely rats and bats.
      We are talking about a regime here about which I for one can believe the worst, but I will need strong evidence to accept they did it deliberately. What we see is a major error which hit them just as hard, or worse, as it hit others. Those at the top are unscrupulous but also careful and calculating,

      I an not up-to-date on CDC but as for WHO, firing may be a good word - as in up against a wall.

      many Questions are unanswered complete agreement there.
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