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  • Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    He's not hypocritical. He means it. He a misanthropic mystic viro collectivist who hates life on earth and individual achievement for individual goals. Everything belongs to the collective for the common good, which we have a duty to serve by the standard of living for a supernatural beast in another world. Pure evil. At least some previous mystic collectivist popes opposed the Communists. Not this one.
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    • Posted by $ exceller 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      "who hates life on earth "

      If he hates life on earth, he should remove himself from this Earthy life.

      There is no such thing as "common good".

      Read C Hitchens.
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      • Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 6 days ago
        They do seek to remove themselves from earth, but first accept a duty to suffer here as a means for something else. The core of Christianity from the beginning has been to live for another world in a supernatural realm, regarding life on earth as an inferior reality to be suffered while qualifying for the superior afterlife.

        Pope Francis has combined that with modern misanthropic viro deprivation and collectivism, worshiping nature as he follows St. Francis of Assisi of the Franciscan+ Order c1200 (which is why he took the name Pope Francis). This was all pushed in his widely promoted Encyclical Care for our Common Home in 2015 http://www.vatican.va/content/frances... This was advertised as (and criticized by conservatives for) the pope being captured by the modern viro movement. On the contrary, they were taken in by the original Francis of Assisi.

        +Not to be confused with its opposite Francisco d'Anconia.
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  • Posted by 4 weeks ago
    Key to world peace?
    Guess he wants the world's population as serfs to the Catholic Church as it was in the Middle Ages.
    Little need to wonder why the Catholic Church is continuing to lose relevance.

    Tear down your walls at the Vatican, Poopie. Let your pals the Moslems take up residence in YOUR house.
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    • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      I gave up catholic religion in college, maybe even earlier. If we just accepted that when you die, you dont exist anymore, there wouldnt be the attraction to religion.
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      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 3 weeks, 4 days ago
        But that was not the message of the New Testament, the teachings of Jesus.
        The overall message was how to conduct one's self as a Conscious Human Being and to appreciate all that is present that you've taken no part in.

        Unfortunately, those that chose to organize those teachings to subjugate the population have hidden from us the history of mankind and the future of mankind so that we a doomed to continually make the same mistakes over and over again; all the while, still being ruled by the worst and least qualified among us.
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        • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 4 days ago
          Interesting. I only heard about the heaven and hell stuff to guarantee obedience
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          • Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 3 days ago
            You didn't hear his account because it isn't true. Nor is his conspiratorial description of intellectual history.
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            • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 3 days ago
              I never expected to go to heaven, whatever that was, but I didn’t want to go to “hell” after I died. Eventually I saw that obeying the rules of Catholicism definitely sentenced me to hell while I was alive. The bad thing is it took many years to shed off the emotional manipulations of religion. I should be somewhat thankful that Catholicism is such an irrational and frankly stupid religion which made it easier to discard. When people die, we cease to exist and that’s that. We don’t live on somewhere else
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              • Posted by Lucky 3 weeks, 3 days ago
                ..an irrational and frankly stupid religion
                As an aside, perhaps as an invitation for a new thread, is it possible for a religion to not be irrational and stupid? Are there any such?
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                • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 3 days ago
                  There are some religions that have incorporatedsome reasonable tenets that are rational from the standpoint of living ones life as a human being (but of course they simply derive them incorrectly from some sort of faith in a fictional all powerful being)

                  An example would be some of the mormon and jewish ideas of fiscal responsibility.
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                  • Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 3 days ago
                    Many religious cultures over time picked up common sense values that had no basis in their religion. It doesn't save the religion.

                    Ironically, it was the Catholic Church that eventually attempted a serious, comprehensive philosophy through Aquinas, who re-introduced Aristotelianism in western civilization with the unintended consequence of undermining religion. But mixing it with church dogma also had the unfortunate effect of corrupting Aristotelianism to the point where it gave Aristotle a bad reputation.
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          • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 3 weeks, 4 days ago
            Sounds like a prehistoric marxist popope made that up just to keep us in line as if we were still pagan bicamerals with someone else's voice in our heads.

            For all we know there may be such places in the quantum but we don't and we don't need some guy wearing a white dress telling us to be good or we won't get presents or virgins next year.

            We should be taught to Chose to be good cause it's the right thing to do, for ourselves, for others and maybe we'll become part of the great entanglement in the sky as a result...Laughing at the latter.
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            • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 4 days ago
              My giving up the catholic church happened when I was in second grade. They promised that if you prayed to Mary, she would get you what you wanted from God. DO.... I prayed for a month for a plastic dump truck toy which was supposed to be placed in a hiding place only I knew.

              Naturally, it never appeared, so I concluded that the god wasnt nice after all, but still needed to be obeyed or you would be punished in hell, The catholic church did such a bad job of marketing heaven and hell that I wasnt sure I really wanted to go to heaven, or was NOT wanting to go to their hell.

              By the time I got to high school, catholicism was pretty much dead to me, and when I read AS in college- that was the definite end.
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              • Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 3 days ago
                I hope you eventually got your plastic dump truck. You would have had a better chance asking Santa -- he doesn't employ incompetent intermediates named Mary.

                The whole affair you describe, including the toy as both a real event and symbolic of much more, shows how insidious they are, right down to crushing the spirit of children.
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                • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 3 days ago
                  I didn’t get the plastic dump truck and I didn’t complain or talk about it. I stopped praying to “god” after that and concluded that if there was a real god, it was to be feared and not loved. What followed for years was attempts to just not piss off the god. What a waste of time !
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  • Posted by $ blarman 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    Are we inter-dependent? To some degree, sure. But can we ever care for someone else if we haven't first seen to our own needs? Nope. And that's self-interest in a nutshell. Doesn't matter if its a parent-child relationship, a child-elder parent relationship, or anything else.
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      On a national level, that's taking care of America first.
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      • Posted by KevinSchwinkendorf 3 weeks, 6 days ago
        Somebody should remind the Pope of the old saying, "A rising tide raises all boats." I would rather enjoy the standard of living I enjoy in the USA today (upper Middle Class) than be the pharaoh (number 1 dictator in all the known world) back 3,000-4,000 years ago. For one thing, if I have a tooth abscess, I can go to a dentist. Back then (even if you had access to the best court magicians in the world), chances are you're not going to get cured. (Note that they believe Ramses II had horrible teeth that caused him excruciating agony every minute he was awake.) Then again, we have air conditioning. The pharaohs had slaves that waved big fans on them, but I think I'll take central A/C any day. Where did this higher standard of living we enjoy today come from? (refer back to my first sentence). Real knowledge of the physical world and how it operates may take awhile to get started, but after awhile knowledge becomes exponential (because it grows on itself). The motivation to succeed (and given sufficient patent protection of inventive people) means that good ideas benefit more people under Free Markets (aka "Capitalism") than under Central Planning (aka"communism"). Long live F. A. Hayek AND Ayn Rand!
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        • Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 6 days ago
          The pope demands that we work to serve others ("raise all boats") in place of pursuing our own individual goals for our own happiness as an individual here on earth, which he denounces as "profit". Capitalism led to the highest standard of living in general, but serving others is not its justification.
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          • Posted by Lucky 3 weeks, 5 days ago
            Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man.
            Walter E. Williams
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            • Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 4 days ago
              Conservative altruism is not the justification of capitalism and was not the justification for the right to one's own life, liberty, property and pursuit of one's own happiness. Trading productive values, from which all sides benefit, is not altruistic service to others.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 3 weeks, 6 days ago
        Indeed. It applies to every level. It's why we shouldn't be in the business of government welfare either, because there you are taking money from people to give to those whom the politicians think are in need. We used to rely on individuals for charity and our nation was the stronger as a result. When government gets involved, it just imposes burdens on everyone involved - and usually ends up bungling everything anyway.
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        • -1
          Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 6 days ago
          Helping others out of benevolence if and when one can afford it is not a duty to provide welfare without or without the government. Government bungling and who "politicians think are in need" is secondary. Charity is not a primary virtue, let alone a duty.
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    • Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      "Interdependence" under the trader principle of mutual benefit is not what the pope means. We do not owe our lives to others, and, no, "self-interest in a nutshell" does not mean taking care of oneself so we can care for others.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    I was brought up Catholic but got rid of that monkey decades ago. I always noticed the paintings and statues in the churches always had facial expressions as if they were totally stoned on some really strong weed or snorted a bit too much coke. I figure this pope got into the Vatican stash and hasn't any brain cells that function rationally anymore. A good advertisement to avoid mind altering drug use.
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    • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      I was raised a catholic, but gave it up totally in college (fortunately). A few years ago I happened to go into a catholic church, and had the same reaction to the statues- like what the hell ARE these...
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    • Posted by NealS 3 weeks, 5 days ago
      My retiree group has more than a few brought up Catholics. They all seem to agree and outdo each others horror stories. Most of them seem to reject their strict teachings and experiences. When three or more of them get going on the subject I have to keep my mouth shut. It's just like going to one of those "Late Night Catechism" sessions.
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    • Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      They may look and act like they are in a trance but it is not drug-induced. It's chosen as a result of bad ideas accepted as they reject the mind.
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  • Posted by Orwellian 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    Belief in God is individualistic and self serving, the other attributes and altruistic attitudes may be part of the individuals belief system.
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    • -2
      Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      Belief in the supernatural is not rationally "self serving". The original Christianity demanded to live for another world as a primary, with serving others in this world as a distant second required to enter heaven. Jesus was an 'individualist' in that the goal was saving one's own soul in another world. In practice it required self-renunciation in this world, which is where ethics matters for life.
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  • Posted by $ gharkness 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    I was raised Catholic and was well schooled in pope-worship. I attended Catholic school, so I got a full dose of the nun's adoration of him, and I understand where it is coming from, even though I share literally none of it. In addition, my mother was a convert (the worst kind of Catholic) who really wanted to have all the credibility and recognition of a nun, without all the pesky requirements of having to give up everything and going to live in a convent.

    The thing I don't understand is why the pope is considered to be a world leader, and why do even protestants pay him FAR more attention than I think he would garner, given they don't share his religion. I mean, why do they even notice him? Yes, I know he's the leader of a huge religion that has ridiculous amounts of money....but I have NEVER seen Catholics give more than a passing glance at, say, Billy Graham, or other protestant leaders such as MLK. And yet people of all faiths (except Muslims and people of no faith) just get all goo-goo eyed over the pope. If they think THAT much of him, why aren't they Catholics?
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    • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      The pope is supposedly the one with GOD's phone number, and therefore in some sort of control of whether you are going to "heaven" or "hell" (wherever THEY are...). Thats the source of his power.
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      • Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 6 days ago
        The pope is claimed to be the infallible authority on matters of faith and morality, requiring complete obedience. Fear is the psychological motive, but not the intellectual motive, which requires suspending reason and independence for faith in supernatural authority of which the pope is the spokesman.
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  • Posted by evlwhtguy 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    He is a commie! No two ways about it. I am not a Catholic....but I wish we had John Paul back. Being Polish....he knew the evils of collectivism.
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    • Posted by PeterSmith 3 weeks, 3 days ago
      Christianity is the foundation on which communism was later built, so this is not an issue for the Pope.
      It's religious conservatives that this presents a conflict as they try to reconcile their irrational collectivism with the individualist and rational basis required to support capitalism.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    Appeal to the largest group, and reap the rewards.

    Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime
    Give a man another man's fish, and he votes for you.

    Religion doing what it does best...maintaining power.
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  • Posted by JohnRandALL 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    Belief in fantasy has unfortunately kept mankind from evolving for years, and it could ultimately destroy us. Religion is simply evil. We can do so much better.
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    • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      If we only accepted that when its OVER, its OVER, we wouldnt be attracted to these crazy religions that promise everlasting whatever in places that dont exist and require sacrifices NOW for supposed benefits after you are dead. Crazy
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    As an ex-catholic, the Roman Church has lost it way starting back in the 1100's AD and it been on a slow decline ever since. The current Pope is so ingrained from his roots in So. America he is preaching a Socialist agenda. I feel for all the world wide believers that they don't see the eventual demise of the Church.
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    • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      The church doctrines are basically socialist, but with a god as the elite leader. No wonder the pope promotes socialism as a good thing.

      Turn the other cheek, you are your brother's keeper, and other such garbage is what the church promotes, after all.
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    • Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      Lost it's way in the 1100s? The Roman Catholic Church claims its origins with the Jesus myth. That is when it lost its way, except that it never had anything to lose.
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  • Posted by $ exceller 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    "“All too often materialistic or utilitarian visions, sometimes hidden, sometimes celebrated, lead to practices and structures motivated largely, or even solely, by self-interest,” the pope said, in reiterating his firm belief in multilateralism."

    I hope your supporters on the left head that advice.
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  • Posted by NealS 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    Someone with his wealth, position, backing, and support should not have to be individualistic or have a self-interest, their position makes it automatic, they only have to go along for the ride. The question is, "What might I do in his position?"
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    • -4
      Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 6 days ago
      It is not rational to aspire to his "position". His position as head mystic does not provide him with automatic individualism and self-interest; it makes them impossible. The question is not what you might do in his position, but to make sure you are never like him.
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      • Posted by NealS 3 weeks, 5 days ago
        I guess it all depends on our definition of what "is" is.
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        • -1
          Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 4 days ago
          That makes no sense at all and is not responsive. Are you supporting mysticism and the authoritarian official papal position presumed to be infallible faith?
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          • Posted by NealS 3 weeks, 4 days ago
            "Are you supporting mysticism and the authoritarian official papal position presumed to be infallible faith?" Of course not. I'm just saying the Pope's views and actions are "individualistic and self-serving" to his personal beliefs. You seem to have a different definition of what "is" is than I do, and that's probably impossible to argue.
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            • -1
              Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 3 days ago
              "What 'is' is" is a meaningless, nonsensical phrase that explains nothing.

              Nothing the pope is doing is individualist or in his or anyone else's self interest. He is irrational.

              You have not explained what you meant by, "The question is, 'What might I do in his position?' " No rational person should be or want to be in his position at all.
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      • -1
        Posted by ewv 3 weeks, 4 days ago
        Who are the cowardly, non-responsive hit and run jerks who are 'downvoting' on behalf of religious mysticism on an Ayn Rand forum? Show yourselves.
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  • Posted by $ Dobrien 3 weeks, 6 days ago
    He is a pedo file enabler if not one himself.
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    • Posted by $ 25n56il4 3 weeks, 5 days ago
      I have experienced Catholic belief from one end of the spectrum to the other. I once attended a funeral with my boss who nearly incited a riot by announcing, "I hate barbaric Catholic funerals'. It was a funeral for a four year old child and he was very upset. He loved children. His favorite charity was Depelchin Faith Home and the Florence Crittenden Home. He was very wealthy!
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