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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 weeks, 3 days ago
    I remember the first airplane like sail I saw, it was amazingly quick and could merely sail on apparent wind; meaning on the wind created by forward movement. Of course it was done on a Cat and not a single hulled ship.

    Our Yacht, the Carlinda, used battens in the sail that were weaker in the middle and they would create a wing shape. Surprisingly, very little wind was needed to create that shape.
    If we were sailing at 8knots the added shape added 2knots just on the apparent wind we created so theoretically we were 2+ knots faster than other 37' yachts.

    One the best experiences was when we caught a 12 foot wave and were able to ride it at a total speed of 18knots until the wave encountered a shallower bottomed area (ocean floor) and we backed off the wave.
    I was standing on the captains seat, yelling "I'm the king of the sea"...laughing like I was a kid again.
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    • Posted by 3 weeks, 3 days ago
      What a great experience! Must have felt like flying on the wave.
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      • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 weeks, 2 days ago
        It was, I'll never forget it...it's a tough thing to do and getting the boat leveled on the wave is difficult...this was my first time and it just happened...no intention on my part.
        But I'll take credit for keepin it there until we hit the shallows, (went from 360' depth to 20' within a 1/2 mile in Plumb Gut, Long Island Sound.)....it was a nice easy landing (so to speak)
        That boat was part of me or me a part of it, I don't know which.
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        • Posted by  $  Commander 3 weeks, 2 days ago
          Oh...Son! You are so fortunate.
          In 2010 I was sailing Great Abaco. We got down there right after the Newport / BVI cruise / race passed. A couple, short-handing, got fatigued and decided to make a cut into the East side of the island just south of Hope Town harbor. Sea level nominal was 8 feet in the cut and they were in 8+ seas on the inbound. They hit bottom full force. Life raft got deployed and a large wave separated the couple.....she was never found...no evidence. As I understand these folks were seasoned sailors....one simple mistake or overlooked item or an assumption....

          Stanza from a song I embrace:
          Put me on my belly on the water
          Let it kiss me like a water bug
          half of me above
          half of me under
          Where the air and water are in love
          And the two would fly away together if they were released from gravity......
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    • Posted by  $  Commander 3 weeks, 3 days ago
      And the bow wake was at least 3 feet above the rail! And the hull thrummed!
      And then, in my experience, we rounded up. I was on the low side....sitting.....grinding an asym spinny for the trimmer and keeping the main preventer under watch. 3 foot wall of water doused me and went right up my foulies.

      That was my first Lake Superior enema
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      • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 weeks, 2 days ago
        What boat did you have at that time...3 ft above the rail of the carlinda would have been a small tsunami!

        I realize the great lakes can be just as foreboding as the ocean.
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        • Posted by  $  Commander 3 weeks, 2 days ago
          Racing a Santa Cruz 40 on leg 2 of the Superior Triangle 2006. This is a Trans-Pac designed racer. Incredibly stable on all points of sail. Race was postponed 3 hours because 40 to 45 knot wind....when peak sustained dropped to 30 we started. Due East wind racing from Houghton MI to Bayfield WI. By midnight, under near full moon we were in 7-8 foot seas. We started hooking Redhawk up onto the following seas and surfed a bit. Regularly above 13,5 hull speed. We did manage a sustained 15,2 for more than 2 minutes. Wish we'd had a GPS capture to show SOG on that one. Must understand this is a light vessle at 10,500 displacement and a tiller boat....lots of fun! When we rounded up. doing around 14 knots, we rolled the owner out of his bunk onto the engine bay divider. "Ok you kids, settle down up there" was all we heard.
          As far as safety concerns; I'd rather be in a storm on open ocean than the Great Lakes. They are beautiful; when placid and pernicious bitches when riled. Short hard wave form and really cold water up until July on all but Superior. That beauty runs in the lower 40's sub-surface in Aug.....consolation.....the best drinking....water...water...yeah....
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          • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 weeks, 2 days ago
            Long Island Sound, (CT/NY/RI) is usually 60/70F in summer...35/40 most of spring/fall...not good to drink! not laughing.

            I've been out in 50knot winds, first time on purpose to see what it was like and how to handle our heavy 37' hunter...shortened the main and never leaned more that 25 degrees...second time, got caught in a freak storm, (an hour before marine band said clear sailing) it crept up fast but we were prepared and experienced, after entering the sound, we caught a fast easterly... downwind to home.

            In short, we lucked out.
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            • Posted by  $  Commander 3 weeks, 2 days ago
              I learned on Lake Michigan. 1930's and 40's boats with oiled canvas sails, hemp,sheets, bronze / hardwood blocks, I returned after a 20 year absence to fiberglass, aluminum, carbon fiber, synthetic sheets and lines. To retrain in 2005 I sailed in 103 races and had over 130 water days against my captains licensure.

              You did not luck out. Sailing is about being prepared for the worst, that the best can be lived. Proof: Vessle is sound, all passenger accounted and all cargo / accoutrements in tact. This is why I raced so much. It is the best, safest reactionary training one can experience.

              New boat owner on the St Croix river Hudson, WI. New Bavaria 34....in 2011 or thereabouts. Drove the damn thing right under the rail tressle swing bridge. A half dozen boaters and the bridge attendant were screaming to stop. He's alive. Stupid wasn't fixed.
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  • Posted by 3 weeks, 4 days ago
    No sailors in the Gulch? No one who appreciates new technology?
    Imagine! Giant freighters with sails to take them across oceans at no fuel cost and no pollution.
    The fifteen largest freighters in the world put out more sulfur oxide and nitrogen oxide pollution than all the cars on earth because they use heavy fuel oil while at sea.
    Sails could greatly reduce those pollutants and save lots of fuel.
    This invention is so cool!
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    • Posted by Lucky 3 weeks, 4 days ago
      Good comment. Decisions were made in the mid 1800s when steam replaced sail, but since then technology has changed, both in fuel and in sail. I recall seeing a proposal for a test, about 20 years ago (?) for sail assisted ocean freighters, no follow up that I recall.

      The problem with wind power is that it is just not powerful enough for the size of modern tankers, except when there is a hurricane when all systems shut down. This can be seen by the grotesque wind power generators that run on tax money, not wind. They cannot operate in high winds.
      Note, the boat carrying teen alarmist Greta across the Atlantic is powered by wind, but there is diesel backup of course.

      I am curious, these tankers are now very large, why not nuclear power?
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      • Posted by 3 weeks, 4 days ago
        In the past sails required a lot more crew to function. I think this sail advancement (and reduction in complexity) could be automated and eliminate that issue. Programming automatic sail reefing/adjustment of this sail system could be the deciding factor and allow sails to function in most wind conditions.
        You're right that the ships would require some engine technology due to changing conditions. There will have to be a cost-benefit analysis to weigh the savings in fuel against the additional capital cost of sailing gear.
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        • Posted by  $  Snezzy 3 weeks, 4 days ago
          One of the substantial difficulties is that the power taken in by sails varies as the cube of the velocity of the wind. A wind of 40 knots provides 64 times as much power as a wind of 10 knots. At 80 knots it's 512 times as much power.

          Something must be done to avoid destroying the ship in a higher wind speed. Traditionally we reefed the sails, This new design certainly suggests the possibility of self-reefing, but the test is to see what happens in that 40 or 60 kt wind.

          The next obvious bit of configuration to try is putting this sail on a trimaran with hydrofoils.
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          • Posted by 3 weeks, 4 days ago
            A friend wants to put it on a cruising boat for making the loop around eastern USA. Being able to easily raise and lower the sail could make that much easier to do. It would be great for a couple on a cruising cat, too.
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            • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 3 days ago
              good idea. The raising and lowering of sails is currently a pain in the butt
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              • Posted by  $  Commander 3 weeks, 3 days ago
                In-mast and In-boom furling. Not the greatest performance but real easy to increase or decrease sail to the conditions. So.....you only have to look at a 35 foot or larger cruiser.....hmmmm. And then there are the cubic dollars involved for purchase or retrofit.
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              • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 weeks, 3 days ago
                On my Hunter 37 it was easy...it just lapped side to side, nice and neat.

                I thought the air wing sail looked ugly and a mess when it was fully collapsed...perhaps it's better once properly stowed.
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                • Posted by 3 weeks, 2 days ago
                  Excellent for reefing, but the mast is still up. The telescoping mast should make it easy to get under bridges as needed doing the eastern US loop. It did look a bit sloppy to me, too.
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                  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 3 weeks, 2 days ago
                    Yes, that would be a big plus going up the Connecticut river, other rivers as well...nothing worse than taking your mast down. Our first boat was an old McGregor. Trailered with the mast down obviously.
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                    • Posted by 3 weeks, 2 days ago
                      "Trailered with the mast down "
                      As I did with my San Juan long ago. Good times (except for stepping the mast, that is.;^)
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                      • Posted by  $  Commander 3 weeks, 2 days ago
                        I have an S2-7.9. Radial foot on the mast. Cantilever pole with Spin and Jib halyard on top loop and aux line from a block on the bow. Leave the shrouds attached. 1 person up or down in under 15 min....with a bit of caution. I can launch or recover from or for trailing in under 2 hours by myself.
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                        • Posted by 3 weeks, 2 days ago
                          Nice! I was a lazy sailor on a reservoir lake in TX. At the time a family owned a piece of land that they were holding for future development in a cove on the lake. Mast up trailer storage was $12 a month. The SJ was about 10 yards from the water. Really spoiled me. Learned to love to sail as frequently as I could until I had to become a business road warrior.
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                          • Posted by  $  Commander 3 weeks, 2 days ago
                            Making a choice. My dad asked me decades ago if I were going to spend my time making a living or making a life. I've managed both well.....Life better!

                            I'm closing my business end of this year....small tooling / fixturing / repairables shop...and moving to Manitowoc WI. I'm already in the marina and out on home water. I've already been asked if some sort of manufacture / teaching in boats and sailing might entreat the youngsters in a community or club function. Manty has a long history in boat construction and there are human resources with lots of manufacturing skill sets.

                            This inflatable wing has given me a couple of ideas. This weekend is Sail and Share Regatta on the St Croix river between MN and
                            WI. Friends from my club started St Croix Sailing School 10 years ago. I'm going to show them the inflatable idea. I think they have 10 420's in the school....and I'm a pretty good manufacturer and seamstress!

                            So....a choice to take all the skills and pour them into a human / product integrated purpose. I learned my values concepts from home, Lao Tsu, Rand, and a few other sources. I learned more about living objectively, in practicum, through sailing, more so than any other activity
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                            • Posted by 3 weeks, 2 days ago
                              I'm sure you'll prosper in your 'new' life, too. šŸ‘
                              I rediscovered a hobby from my past and started a new business with a friend early this year. Have a look at our current product line:
                              http://www.tenoctaveaudio.com
                              Probably add a few smaller products in the coming weeks.
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                              • Posted by  $  Commander 3 weeks, 2 days ago
                                http://stereotimes.com/acc052202.shtml

                                This is one link. We had award for best new tweak at 2005 IES in Vegas. Jeff approached me with the idea of lateral transient noise and hysteresis in 2000 or 2001. I still have the production drawings and tooling.
                                Where the Aurios footers created conflict in freedom of movement because of 3 bearing balls in each piece and a separator within the device (contact), I created 2 planes of free motion using 3 single bearing balls between 2 15" radiused pucks. We could see the difference in the VU metering it was so substantive. Never got to a point of refining the design application.

                                It was a fun project but Jeff underestimated costs of marketing. Can't fault him. Do miss him too.....early death.

                                If I don't have any left in some obscure box.....perhaps make you a set. Shouldn't take but a few hours.
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      • Posted by term2 3 weeks, 3 days ago
        aircraft carriers use nuclear power, but I suspect they are VERY careful about the design and maintenance. Not so sure an indonesian freighter would be as careful, not to mention a russian one.

        If the wind isnt strong enough, perhaps the freighter could go a bit slower- given the savings on fuel costs, perhaps a little longer sail would be ok

        There are also refrigerated containers which would need electricity. Not to mention the amount of electricity thats needed to control these ships as well as provide livng conditions for the crew.
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    • Posted by  $  Commander 3 weeks, 3 days ago
      I sail...a lot.
      As far as commercial value it may have potential. A lot of testing to scale up. I saw some design mathematics as I was vetting the product. Beneteau has to be working with this for their charter fleet boats by this brand and by Jeanneau brand. As far as the newer Jeanneau boats are concerned....I'll only use these as dock barges from now on. Horrendous handling and lack of safety holds. If Jeanneau outfits new charter boats with these inflatables I'd like to be a spectator.

      Right now I'd only use something of this for day sailing. The fabric and seaming would cause my biggest reticence in the event of a real blow. Hulls for this type of sail require new design for weight and balance....as in some of the Freedom designs. Weight, or pressure, forward to keep the bow cutting in heavier air.

      Secondary and tertiary pressurization systems needed for offshore safety. Potential for induced pressurization through some creative ducting and ancillary fans or turbines is feasible. Some other offshore / cruising things to consider are radar reflection, visual signalling, identification lighting for a few.

      I've only seen films of upwind so far. On a reach or downwind with a main, jib, 2 jibs on a cutter rig and a spinnaker I bet I'd make a lot of time on any match hulled vessle outfitted with inflatables. And then there are the skill sets these guys are targeting. Ease of use and handling look real minimal for beginners.

      I knew these guys worked on the North 3DL layout for sailmaking. Still, I've raced my Dacron 135 against 150 3DL's in light air.....4 to 8 knots, and far outperformed the technology my substantive seniors were using. My Dacron sails also have a 2x life as the higher tech.

      I've bookmarked this as it may get very interesting, and profitable.
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  • Posted by rhfinle 3 weeks, 2 days ago
    I saw recently where they dug up a many-thousands-of-years-old ship off the Red Sea, which still had rigging intact. They used the same Sheet Bends, Clove Hitches, Square Knots and Figure-Eight-knots we use now, because it's convergent technology that works. Same stuff that's on my sloop. I'll stick with ten thousand year old technology when I'm out on the water, thanks.
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  • Posted by  $  Thoritsu 3 weeks, 2 days ago
    Iā€™m not much of a sailor, but technically, this is excellent. Much better shape than a cloth sail. The ribs are excellent for keeping flow laminar and attached.
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 3 weeks, 3 days ago
    Me dino can sail a boat with a far less expensive old-fashioned sail. Think I much prefer saving money that way. Dinos can be old-fashioned like that.
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