jlc

Nor can I, personally. I am making the point that how 'we' (the folks on the Gulch) look at things is not necessarily how other people look at them. And that is OK.

Jan

People who voluntarily join religious orders think that it works for their whole 'family group' ie the whole Order.

Jan

The pope is wrong about a lot of things (so much for infallibility...) but what is good about the PAS has nothing to do with the pope, but with the stance and religious expertise of the massive Catholic Church.

For example, the CC has formally endorsed evolution since...I think around the 1960's. One of my responses to religious arguments against evolution is to say, "Well, the Catholic Church endorses it. I think they read the bible - go argue with them."

I do not personally care if the bible agrees with science, since the bible is a origin fable of a nomadic population, who were trying to hold their culture intact in spite of being surrounded by a lot of much more advanced civilizations. So what if it disagrees with science? That is not its purpose. It has done a good job of holding the Judaeo-Christian religion together and THAT was its purpose.

But there are a lot of people for whom these things matter, and I would rather have them argue with each other than with me. If the PAS wants to take them on (as in Massive and Catholic and Experts), that is great; one less thing for me to do.

Jan

Many of the religious orders are voluntarily communist. This cannot help but slant the view of religious people towards how well communism works. They see successful microcosms (many of which are supported by commercial enterprise outside of their communes) and conclude that the major Communist experiments 'must not have been implemented properly' when they are disastrous.

No, the default is that 'communism does not work for the human species per se'...but I observe that it can work for selected subsets of humanity. I am all in favor of having Communists form their own communes within a matrix of a Capitalistic society.

Jan

And they are the only modern professional unit that still knows how to use a pole arm!

Jan

Actually, he is grinning from bony ear-hole-to ear-hole: This is his victory. The Catholic Church now not only enthusiastically endorses a heliocentric solar system, but deeply regrets its tarnishing of its own reputation by the persecution of Galileo.

I applaud the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. This is a wonderful thing to have on 'our side'. I do not know of any group of Protestant born-again scholars who would be able to out-bible a bunch of argumentative and picky Jesuits on religiously intrinsic defense of science.

What this boils down to is that we who appreciate science for its own sake can now say, "Go argue with PAS." (Either because we do not give a rap about what the bible says or because we think that the bible is a vague allegory provided to Mesolithic goat-herders by a wise deity.)

Jan

This is scary, especially considering woodlema's post. I do not think that Obama could become dictator, but I think that he could legally become the president-in-residence, were the 22nd Amendment repealed.

Jan

Actually, I find this both interesting and reasonable...OK, and a bit humorous too. My main complaint is that the sexual orientation options are too limited: "bi-sexual" actually describes a lot of the people I know, most of whom are in traditional hetero relationships now (but who have an adventure or so in their past). I think that should be the default...(at least here in CA).

I remember men and women sharing a single nearby bathroom (labeled for Women) at a camping event (the Men's room was waaaaay over by the entrance) and I was totally pleased by how well it worked. (I will add that this occurred amongst almost militantly courteous people. Also that this took place in Missouri, not in Calif.)

I think we are a bit close-minded about these things.

Jan

"...the falling of small stones that start an avalanche in the mountains."

Cause and effect.

Jan

That is a bright light in a dim room. Good to see that this is happening. I would like this to happen in Los Angeles as well.

Jan

I have observed a surprising lack of limits for people to continue to believe what they want to believe. There is always hope that the reality of being without a job (because the minimum wage was hiked to $15/hr) with your family crowded into a marginal apartment will wake some percentage of the population up.

Jan

Thanks for the warning. It is difficult to keep track of 'which' states are standing up for 'which' specific freedoms (whilst simultaneously crushing other freedoms). I keep hoping that one state will pull definitively 'ahead of the pack' in support of personal and economic freedom.

I have been reading dire reports of mass graves in Mexico. Keep safe!

Jan

Ad valorem apparently includes sales tax as well as property tax and inheritance tax. I would agree to sales tax as a reasonable method of funding a minimalist gov, but I totally agree with you, woodlema, about perpetually renting your property from the gov via property tax. That needs to GO!

Jan

How has it been shown that multiple invention does not occur? History is littered with instances of multiple invention and discovery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...

Jan

This is key. The percentage may remain the same, but 'what you have' at a 'poverty' level is different. Example: In the 1980's only rich people had microwaves; now 'poor' people have them.

Jan

I guess the most important statements I can add to this discussion is that (1) I think that genetics determines a lot (but not all) of our behavior and our capabilities. (2) I have no trouble being judgmental and hence politically incorrect.

Let me drift into chemical metaphor: Some people are like Helium - they are locked into being just and only themselves. Other people are like Carbon, they are 'locked in' to being whatever their environment dictates.

In dealing with chemicals or people, it is important to know what element you are encountering, so that you do not beat your head futilely trying to change He or expect unfaltering allegiance from C.

Jan

There is so much more ahead...yes, excited now...!

Jan

Nope. Don't disagree. I can identify an endpoint as evil without a problem. But I think that 'most' (ie 70%) of the human race is probably geared to follow-the-leader. Labeling these people as innately evil is incorrect - they may all be at the endpoint that I would label evil, but it is more accurate to label them as 'followers'. They followed evil; they are not inherently evil.

This also means that were there a world where our philosophy predominated, we would need to be aware that 70% of the people were just doing as they were told...by Us, rather than by Them.

Jan

I have read to the end of this chain of comments, and disagree with most of them; I tend to agree with VetteGuy.

When experiments are performed that test the willingness of people to torture other people (generally via electric shock) about 70% of the subjects agree to do so when told by ‘authorities’ that it is OK to do this. The other 30% refuse – though this subset is rarely the topic of articles that are written about these experiments. (NB I think there is a definite bias in these experiments because they are drawn from a population that routinely excludes obvious sadists and sociopaths. This will mess up the data for the curve.) We have a spread here that hints of a Gaussian distribution of people around a norm, and the ‘norm’ represents ‘obedience to authority'.

So we have evidence that 70% of the population can be conditioned to obey authority to believe whatever philosophy is currently in vogue. Labeling this +- 2SD of the Norm as “Evil” lays an unnecessarily big burden of 'cosmic original sin' on humankind. I think that it is more accurate to label these people as ‘malleable’.

Jim Taggart is an excellent representative of this segment of the population, and he is chilling for that exact reason. It is not necessary for JT to be innately evil in order for him to enjoy watching Galt’s torture. Remember: Until relatively recently, public torture and execution was something you ‘took the kids to’ for entertainment. Watching Homo superior be tortured is the fulfillment of the philosophy that Jim Taggart has internalized for his entire life. It proves that he is Right.

Do you want shivers down your spine? Jim Taggart is Normal. But he could have been as readily conditioned for belief in the individual; he is a follower. Definitionally, 70% of humankind is Jim Taggart. (And yes, there is some evidence that this tendency is genetic...though it would take me a while to dig this up...came from a book that Pinker wrote.)

Jan

This is like the radios of 1900, insofar as its potential development relates to its current model. It does not require much effort in imagination to project a microwave-sized box with inputs of various organic and inorganic sources (which you would buy separately or in packs like you do refills for your inkjet printer) the output of which would resemble the Star Trek 'replicator'.

"Tea. Earl Grey, hot."

Jan

Everyone is fallible. Furthermore, no one is going to represent 'YOU' with complete accuracy - your personal perspectives and beliefs.

It is my opinion that these facts are being used to systematically destroy the heroes of our past. I think this has less to do with the actual flaws those heroes had and more with the desire to remove the concept of "hero". Heroes are non-egalitarian by definition, and there is a strong element in our society that wishes to reduce us all to the philosophical and social equivalent of 'grey pablum'.

Destroying the heroes of the Revolution is especially poignant.

Jan

I read a bit (in the spirit of inquiry), and was not impressed. Erroneous statements are made and then conclusions are announced, based on those statements.

It has convinced you; it totally failed to even interest me.

Jan

Beautiful metaphor. It uses a positive symbol for 'faith' (who has not snuggled down into a warm comforter on a cold day?) but stresses the need to put that symbol aside (and who has not needed to get up anyway, in spite of the warm bed, when it was time to arise?).

Hats off for poetic phrasing.

Jan

I am glad my Jeep is a 2000 (and Wm's is a 2001). I need to get my old VW back on the road...

White hat hacking of voting machines, pacemakers, and cars is doing us a great service. I want these things to be computerized and work - but people keep releasing vulnerable hardware and we are well past the age of innocence when this should happen.

Lock all of these computerized devices down and let's get on with progress.

Jan

Alternatively, the wealthy man was never attracted to 'wealth' at all - but used wealth as a scorecard for 'power'. POTUS has a lot of power.

Jan