jlc

While I am probably less fond of dark than you are, I basically agree: I can have some dark in a story as long as it is matched by heroic.

The other touchstone I have found will be no surprise to you: Competence Porn. I am totally in love with Competence Porn. My heroes can go through dark times, but when I can see them extricating themselves from whatever besets them by sheer ability...well, that is what I really like. (The Martian was an excellent example of this. Atlas Shrugged was an odd inversion of this - heroes extricating themselves from a situation by refusing to use their competence for society.)

Jan

Thanks. I appreciate that you actually know how this was supposed to work!

Jan

So, was the charge going to be a one time hookup fee for electricity? I could see that working for a low-price utility: It would be worth the cost of billing, even if the electricity itself was not. I could also see an unmetered charge annually for repairs - this would mean that you would not have to staff for measuring individual use.

Jan

Superman's problem is not that he is so good, it is that he is so powerful it is difficult to create plots around him. So - from what I read - the current Superman movies and comics are tearing him down too.

One of the main problems that I see in our social uber consciousness over the past several decades, FFA, is that we have managed to make 'good' genuinely unattractive. I like the tendency in the comic book movies to make 'good' a positive thing again (but then along comes JJ and Daredevil...sigh).

Jan, art leads: but where it is going I'm not sure I want to travel...

I figured you were referring to JJ. I read and liked the Daredevil comics when they came out, but the 'dark and gritty' Daredevil of Netflix holds no attraction for me. I watched about 5 minutes of JJ...then turned her off!

Jan

I see someone who attributes most of the woes of humankind to corporate success quoting Ayn Rand as a finale.

Note the '80% of our original forests gone' item. From Matt Ridley's site (January 2013): "The latest and most detailed satellite data, which is yet to be published but was summarized in an online lecture last July by Ranga Myneni of Boston University, confirms that the greening of the Earth has now been going on for 30 years. Between 1982 and 2011, 20.5% of the world's vegetated area got greener, while just 3% grew browner; the rest showed no change." This tendency is now being challenged by the return to biomass burning due to the environmentally-induced transition to expensive green energy, but it is still true that we have more forests not fewer.

M.Williams Journal of Historical Geography,
26, 1 (2000) 28–46

"...[It] has been demonstrated during the last century and a half in the developed world where the intensification of agriculture on the most productive land has led to the abandonment of marginal land and its recolonization by trees. In the USA, for example, abandonment began in the diffcult-to-farm New England highlands from 1840 onwards, and then spread south throughout the eastern seaboard states, and was particularly noticeable in the South after the 1920s.
Between 1910 and 1979 a net 60·7 million acres (24·5 million ha) were added to the
forest,..."

Of course, the statement made in the Anonymous video is technically correct, because the forests that are greening the Earth are not the 'original' forests - few of those are left. I found the video emotionally stirring, but jarringly inaccurate. I would like to see a video that well produced which had a message I agreed with and which merited an Ayn Rand quote at the end.

Jan

This was a fun breakfast thread. (But I'll skip the Bud Light.)

Jan, chuckling

As a big fan of classical music (listening to it right now), I will point out that the only good classical music currently being written is movie themes. Some of these themes (eg Shore's LOTR) are worthy of Wagner (yes, I like Wagner; this was not tongue in cheek). I have heard symphonic variations on Beatles themes and while I am not fond of the Beatles I found the symphony stunning.

I totally agree with you, Herb, about the writhing, beat-up, dark, 'heros', notably Daredevil and Jessica Jones. This feels similar to SF in the 1970's, when Analog published story after depressing story about bad people doing sad things. I will stick with Captain America, thank you (and Thor is just not hard to look at...mmm). There was a telling scene in Ultron when Hawkeye's wife tells him that the team needs him (in spite of the fact that he is an archer trying to keep up with demi-gods) because he is the only grown-up on the team. We are idolizing people whose lives are falling apart in spite of the tremendous assets they have - and this is a bad symptom.

Jan

Yes. You understand what I was getting at. We already live in a world where unimaginable luxuries can be purchased for 'an hours wage' at Walmart. I can get access to information and entertainment 'for free'...if I am willing to watch some advertising.

Our models are changing. Google may have the right of it.

Jan

TANSTAAFL...but.

While our clothes are not free and our lighting is not free, they cost so little in comparison to what things 'used to cost' that this type of progression is worth musing over.

In the Middle Ages, a typical (and generous) annual wage for a maid or servant was 'a suit of clothes'. Yeah. The value of a suit of clothes was, in terms of minimum wage worker, about $20K. In comparison to this, when I go to Walmart and pick up a pair of jogging pants for $10...my clothes are almost free.

Another example is 'aluminum'. Ludwig the Mad's favorite dinner plate was made of aluminum...it was more valuable than if it had been made of solid gold. Now, while aluminum is not free, by comparison to Ludwig's plate, it is 'almost free'.

The same is true of 'enough light for an hour of reading'. The cost of an hour's light goes from 'weeks worth of work' to 'fractions of a penny' from ancient times up to the present.

This is the power of technology. I recall hearing (from Wm) that in the 1950's there was discussion of not charging for electricity that came from nuclear power plants, because the cost of billing for it would exceed the worth of the electricity used by the average household.

So, while Google is welcome to give away its products out of its own pocket (but not out of my pocket) the idea that fiber communications will always have a meaningful charge is debatable.

Jan

Ha! I had not heard that one. I will remember it.

Jan

Line you, term2, when I go to the doctor, I almost always have a theory as to 'what is wrong' and a set of ideas 'what should be done about it'. But I am a biomed geek, so I do not expect other people to be as excited about looking this stuff up.

One of the problems with the medical profession is that they have gone to a lot of trouble to heap too much onto the doctor. For example, when I studied Medical Technology, we were taught how to diagnose (certain) diseases from laboratory results; we are unfortunately forbidden by law from doing this! The doctors do not have time to learn every new lab test (/radiology procedure/pharmaceutical) but they have boxed themselves into a situation where other medical professions are forbidden to take some of the load off their shoulders. This system needs revision.

The discussion of malpractice suits is another topic altogether...

Jan

The child has cystic fibrosis. The mother had expressed concern about this particular disease, but had never been offered genetic testing of the fetus. The implication is that she would have aborted the fetus while it was early term if she had known that it was likely it would develop cystic fibrosis.

Jan

This is the core of the issue. If she is due damages, then it is from people whose medical aid to her was egregiously flawed. The article states that she is suing her 'medical practitioners', so it is not quite amorphous - though I agree with term2 that it should specify 'who is responsible for the wrongdoing'.

I think that this specific case is just the mother trying to grab some bucks, but that the overall situation deserves looking at. I have talked to many people who have been 'herded' into making a particular medical decision by the doctor simply not telling them of alternatives. If they trust the doctor, they trust that they have been given all of the choices available (not just all the worst choices plus the one cherry-picked good choice that the doctor prefers).

Yes, it is the responsibility of the individual to find out what is going on and make the decision, but we rely on the presence of experts to make our society plausible. A brilliant physicist may not have a clue about medicine; he relies on his doctor to present him with a reasoned set of alternatives, the same way the doctor relies on the physicist to do physics.

We have often discussed how terrible it is for schools to teach Global Warming and Socialism as if there were no viable alternatives. Similarly, a doctor has to present all of the options he does not consider actually dangerous to his patient. Many doctors do not do this.

Jan

The Notebooks of LL were great, and full of good practical advice (though I have managed to get this far in life without ever learning how to diaper a baby!!! - and I intend to keep that lacuna in my knowledge base as long as possible). It would be great to see TMIAHM made into a movie.

Jan

Cummon now. Clarke was awesome too. And his 3 Laws are all worth remembering.

Yes, Heinlein was also my favorite for a long time. I fell off the back of the truck when I read some of his later novels (and still have not read many of them).

Jan

That is exactly what I was thinking! But actually, that is Clarke's Third Law - LL was quoting it, I believe.

Clarke's first law
When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
Clarke's second law
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Clarke's third law
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Jan

I suspect that the knowledge that you refer to is much deeper than college - knowledge of life.

Jan, still working on that

Yeah. I am still the token 'go to Med Tech' for when folks are stumped by some med tech problem. Sometimes the answer still lies in knowing the field from the inside.

Jan

I agree with you to an incredible degree!

Jan

I never even knew those were called "whips". They are neat.

Jan

Oh, goodie. And here I thought you were one of those glad-handing extroverts!

I am able to do people-stuff - I have no problem making presentations, meet-and-greet etc, and right now my main job is management. But what I love is the 'working with things' part. Doing design work is the candy for me ('things' includes 'ideas').

Jan

Please accept the premise that there are people to whom 'heaven' is a small room with a bunch of technical instruments in it - and a closed door.

While it is true that being able to trade and being able to sell yourself will let you profit better, there are people who do not give a rap about that. To tell these people that they must wedge themselves into the conventional extroverted pigeonhole denies their individuality. We are talking about 'college' and that is the best place to learn technical skills and get the magic piece of paper that allows you to be hired for those skills. This particular subset of people very much benefits from college - and the technical classes in college sidestep a lot of the political brainwashing to boot.

Jan

But I don't want to do that. I want to deal with 'things' not 'people'. I want to do science, with real numbers and measurements. Society needs technical geeks too. It is possible to learn how to plate cultures on a Petri dish without going to formal school, but to learn that and also get a magic piece of paper that allows you to work in science is a good reason to go to college.

Jan, in management now

There are a number of androgyns in my occasional social circle. I tend to get along with them well. "Geek Girls" I get along with superbly - they use the feminine pronoun, but don't subscribe to the social hoopla. It is a relief to be around them, actually...I don't have to talk about my dogs in order to have a topic of conversation (though dogs are certainly sometimes discussed). I can just dive into Minoan archetypes or spinning or genetics; as in the Gulch, I have to be careful what topic to open since there is a Lot of Expertise floating around.

The Individual is the important part!

Jan