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    Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago
    The only thing Orwell was wrong about was the year.
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    • Posted by Solver 9 years, 9 months ago
      "The only thing Orwell was wrong about was the year."

      In the book "Nineteen Eighty-Four", the official calendar date is set as deemed necessary by the Ministry of Truth.
      That means the actual year is forgotten, and meaningless. It could be this year. It could even be the next.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      Exactly. Amazing how that and AS are coming true.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago
        It's not very amazing to me that what Orwell and AS is coming true. It was the logical conclusion to the liberal (il)logic that the villains in their novels held in high regard. It has been clear for 100 years that where we are now is pretty close to their ultimate goal. At the rate we are going, I estimate another 25 years or so. That is a horribly long time to wait. It's time to start laying the groundwork for Atlantis.
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        • Posted by $ stargeezer 9 years, 9 months ago
          I'd like to think (hope) you are right, but there's not much chance of us having that much time, in my opinion. With the rapid growth of militarized police forces who answer to one branch of government and the growth of Intelligence Services ability to access our daily lives, I fear that the journey will be much shorter.

          In our small town almost every intersection that is equipped with a signal light is also equipped with a camera that's connected to the city services office, police dept. and county sheriff's office. In the business district the number of cameras are double that with many mounted on every civic office building, and those within each of those buildings and offices. Add in the recent advances in facial recognition software and there's little privacy in public anymore.

          There's no question that if you are using any electronic service, you have zero privacy. And for us in the Gulch - the only thing we have is camaraderie.
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago
            I am guessing that it will take longer than most people think to get to the point where we MUST abandon ship. I think AR would agree. I think that was her point in making AS over 1160 pages.
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          • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 9 months ago
            as for me, star, I always take a dose of self-aware
            salts when I decide to enter something via keyboard
            here ... what would I say if I was snooping on me?

            make it fluffy and distracting;;; the joke is on them
            if I maintain my discipline better than they do!!! -- j

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            • Posted by $ stargeezer 9 years, 9 months ago
              John - My personal take on a drone is "I was shooting trap in my back yard when this gizmo flew right where I was shooting officer". Of course, not everybody has a trap range in thier back yard. :)
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          • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
            Hi Star. Something subtle that I have noticed is the way these things are being woven into entertainment. One of the few TV shows I watch is 24. If you watch the show Chloe(computer geek) helps the main character(Jack Bauer) often times by accessing those very cameras and using the very techniques you speak of. I think it makes people accept this stuff more readily.
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            • Posted by $ stargeezer 9 years, 9 months ago
              All too true. My wife's fav. show NCIS constantly depicts the good guys using the tech for good things, with never a bad outcome from it's use.

              The law is entirely on the side of the authorities in this surveillance, with many court decisions that establish that we have no assurance of privacy when we are in public. The problem today is that these laws were mostly written to protect the press and us if we take a photo that innocently includes some unrelated person in the image. That's a far cry from what we see today, the intentional recording of all people who CAN be recorded, "just it case" the data is needed latter.

              I think there's a great difference between casual recording and intentional surveillance. I don't think that a good case to defend these actions have been put to the SCOTUS, but I believe it will be soon.

              A key component will be the use of drones that can record us in our own back yards and even the drones that can bounce a laser off our window and record conversations within. I certainly think these are blatantly unconstitutional, but we will see how they judge.
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              • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
                The private drones concern me. They are not very expensive and with digital equipment you can take video and pictures of almost anything. Common sense should prevail but seldom does.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 9 months ago
    Besides 1984, Orwell also wrote Animal Farm as a satire of the Soviet Union. This 67-year-old retired dude read both books as a teenager and the "more than equal" pig analogy has really stuck when I've seen our "more than equal" term limit poster children pig out in various ways detrimental toward a capitalist republic.
    The pinnacle of this analogy struck me most profoundly to be the case when (what I oft mockingly call) "our elite betters" of a virtual oligarchy crammed the unaffordable Affordable Health Care Act down our throats. Princess Pelosi provided the crowning touch of this Obamanation "audacity of change" when she proclaimed, "Let us pass this bill to read what is in it (etc.)"
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      The unaffordable care act is one of the worst pieces of trash ever passed by congress. The press should point out every time they speak about it how it was pushed thru. I actually saw a sticker on a car window that said
      "I love my Obamacare". Wish I could have seen the bone head that soiled his car with that.
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      • Posted by $ stargeezer 9 years, 9 months ago
        Rich - I know ONE person who has been helped by the act and untold numbers who are all being hurt. Either I know a particularly large number of "producers" and a very low number of "moochers" (I hope) or the act is worthless for most people.

        In the one case who was helped he and his wife were on a state subsidized ins program because they had both had cancer and were uninsurable. The state program cost them $1600 a month of their salary of $2400 a month. (Because of a business relationship I do know the real numbers) Their cost of O-care was $480 a month. These folks are employed and are trying to start a small resale business, but they were being bled dry by ins they could not live without.

        As much as I'm thrilled they are being taken care of, even if it's a short time, O-care is a house of cards that WILL come falling down.

        The only question is how many people like our friends will be destroyed in the collapse.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 9 months ago
          The problem is, the actual cost is still $1600/mo (or more, now that there's all sorts of other goodies required to be included whether wanted/needed or not). It is merely being paid for by others.

          And we will all be destroyed in the end if it is not repealed. There is no good socialist healthcare system.
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          • Posted by $ stargeezer 9 years, 9 months ago
            Absolutely the "cost" is unchanged. They were informed last year that the cost was going to be increased this year to an amount that was more than their income. Just what are people to do who are absolutely reliant on medical services to stay alive? I don't have a answer.

            I know how the conspiracy between the liberals, labor and medicine got us here, but just how can we unwind the clock without leaving a lot of dieing people in the gutter? Without medical intervention this past week, I'd be dead by now, or very close. And I do have some medical coverage. People who don't and find themselves in need of emergency care can be financially wiped out in a afternoon. Many are with coverage. Had I not been healthy enough to make the 150 mile drive to "my" VA hospital last Sunday, I'd be $65,000 in debt today. I know because it's happened to me.
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 9 months ago
              I feel for you Star, and on a personal level, wish you a quick recovery.

              However on a policy basis - and this is going to sound harsh, but reality often is - life is not fair. Some have attained the means to procure costly medical care, and many, even most, have not. We purchase insurance so that we can pool our risk with others for items that we deem ourselves to be most needful of being protected against. But now, we have an outside entity that deems that it can step in and make those decisions for us, and force us to absorb the costs.
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              • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
                The bigger issue for me Robbie is that government intervention is the main reason health care is so expensive and with it insurance. A step by step approach that would allow the free market back into health care would dramatically lower costs and we could all afford routine care. Insurance would revert back to traumatic and long term needs.
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            • Posted by teri-amborn 9 years, 8 months ago
              Unfortunately, euthanasia will be able to be self-ministered soon and there won't be any more taking from the young and productive to fund the health issues of the sick, old and unproductive.
              Just watch. The next two to three years will be game changing.
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            • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 8 months ago
              "just how can we unwind the clock without..."

              Most of those on Obamacare were just transferred over from Medicare - they weren't new signups. Repeal Obamacare and put them back on Medicare while we figure out a way to get government out of healthcare entirely.

              I look at the problem from a business standpoint. One of the core business fundamentals is to keep overhead (fixed costs) low so as to shift costs to variable costs which can more easily be ascertained and passed on in product costs. That means limiting or eliminating much of the bureaucratic red tape that doesn't add any value. And there is so much red tape when visiting a doctor's office, most patients (and doctors) look like mummies. One study I saw polled doctors and found out that they spent almost 50% of their time just on paperwork for regulations, while the other 50% had to get split up between running their offices and seeing patients. It's no wonder health care is so expensive!
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              • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
                That is when the progressive play the sympathy card. They actually have convinced people if they don't support government run health care that they are mean. To have competition when it's your health is mean.We need to combat that foolishness and show that it is the best system for caring for the most people.
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                • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 8 months ago
                  One of the primary reasons they can get away with it is third-party-payer. When someone else has to foot the bill for your medical costs, you devalue the services you are receiving and consequently use more than you otherwise would have. When people aren't responsible (via a decreased pocketbook) for their spending habits (and lifestyle habits), they will make disproportionate choices. I'm not advocating for outlawing insurance, but I would wholly support making health insurance just like auto, home, or life insurance - an individual matter. Decouple insurance from the employer entirely. If an employer wants to offer a tax-deductible subsidy to go towards paying insurance premiums or HSA's, that's fine.
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                  • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
                    Another idea I have heard is do away with flat co pays. Make it a percentage. If you can get a prescription for $20.00 no matter where you go why shop around? If you pay 20% then you will find the lowest price. Pharmaceutical companies hate ideas like this.
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            • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 9 months ago
              " but just how can we unwind the clock without leaving a lot of dieing people in the gutter? "

              I've already resigned myself to dying in the gutter, speaking metaphorically.

              It costs me $40 a month for insurance I can't use because I can't afford the deductibles. In which case I'd rather have the $40/month.

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              • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
                Insurance is crazy. Before we incorporated our small business we had to carry workman's compensation insurance on everybody. As the owner, my father was legally barred from collecting. Over the years he paid in thousands of dollars to a system he was never allowed to collect from.
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        • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 9 months ago
          do you have any idea how many people like the cancer
          patients could be helped by just giving them the cash
          and letting the bureaucrats go wanting??? -- j

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  • Posted by $ Stormi 9 years, 9 months ago
    The problem is, while we read "1984" in public high school, how many classes since then have never read it? We were forewarned. We knew that rewriting history could happen. Today, the young adults don't have a clue, as they have never read Orwell and know little history, rewritten or otherwise. Wait until Common Core completes the dumb down!
    What to do. Get rid of the Council on Foreign Relations, the moving force behind the changes made by most recent presidents. Get out of the UN, they are mostly communists anyway. Kick the Federal Reserve to the curb. Get rid of the Dept. of Education, heart of brainwashing future voters. Outlaw port barrel spending in finance bill, and you will take power from the corrupt legislators.
    Actually, I just rewatched "1984" the other week, the Richard Burton version, and was sad to see how close we have come to Orwell's predictions.
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    • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 9 years, 8 months ago
      Both of my kids read 1984 this year. My 16 year old in English class, (his teacher was Eastern European interestingly), and my 14 year old daughter because I gave it to her to read. They were both full of questions, and also observations about the parallels they are seeing presently in this country.
      It's extremely disturbing to see how far along that path we as a nation have gone. And also how complacent most people are about how government has insinuated itself into every aspect of our lives. I find it reprehensible and terribly sad to see such a sharp decline in freedom, free will and the right to speak out without retribution.
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      • Posted by $ Stormi 9 years, 8 months ago
        Even when our daughter, now 30, was in school, the groundwork was being set for what you describe - that slow shift in brainwashing kids to accept loss of freedom, disdain private property, shop for abortions, and on and on. So, by fifth grade I handed her "Animal Farm", "Brave New World", "Anthem" and the next year "1984" and "The Law". They got to her on some things, like entitlements, feeding them crap about only working if they could start out at $100,000, because they deserved it! She saw early on how she was being manipulated, but not at all times. She at least knows history. People sit back and do nothing because they don't know history, have been told to let the schools raise their kids, and have been offered so many freebies. They do not realize being free means being productive and self-reliant. They mistake self-esteem (unearned) with self-respect (earned). Thank your local government schools for a good start on this disaster our country has become. It will get worse under Common Core. The kids are already primed to accept UN Agenda 21, and the loss of the right to private property.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      Great suggestions Stormi. I was in college in 1984 and not really interested in politics. Looking back I kind of remember the talk being about how far off 1984 was. Reagan was President and very popular. It looked as though the collective had lost. Wow was that wrong.
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago
      1984 is not on the reading list in Florida, but both We the Living and Animal Farm are.
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      • Posted by $ Stormi 9 years, 9 months ago
        That is fantastic. Most of the Common Core reading in a lot of the country is to focus on instruction manuals and the like. Literature is out, as is most writing which suggests something may not be right with government.Years ago, we got a brother and sister who transferred in from Florida to Ohio. Their educational background from Fla. schools was very good. Hope it stays that way, under pressure from the federal level to do otherwise.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago
    I would actually be content to keep the entire constitution as it stands, including the modern amendments. It would not be too big a project to individually nullify the amendments that limited individual liberty and add amendments that required government accountability, visibility (I won't say 'transparency' because every gov has covert ops.), and financial responsibility.

    I would go for repealing all federal and state laws, regulations, organizations, and stipends that have come into existence after a certain point - probably around WWII. This is too big a job to handle by examining the individual laws. In medieval Iceland, if a Lawspeaker forgot to recite a law for 3 Things running, and no one called him on it, it was officially 'not a law' any more. I think that if we scrap a Whole Lot of laws, we will find that most people do not miss them and will not go to the effort to re-pass them.

    Keeping the whole constitution is a cheap shot - the major problems we have are not in the constitution but in the fact (my opinion) that many of the laws that have been passed have never been vetted for adherence to the Constitution, esp the Bill of Rights. This needs to be a prereq before 'something proposed' becomes 'law'. We need more than a 'pen and phone' approach to governance.

    Jan
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago
      At a minimum, we need to eliminate the part of the Constitution that permits the feds to borrow money.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 8 months ago
        Yes. Force them to set aside a rainy-day fund for temporary things like wars, etc.

        I would also support automatic twilight provisions - that every bill passed only lasted as long as the current tenure of the body passing it. If they wanted it renewed, they would have to reauthorize it.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 9 months ago
    It was like being slapped. I was on a bus a few months ago. And a guy across from me was reading 1984. Back when 1984 really rolled around, the Apple Macintosh Superbowl ad spoke for a new era of freedom - and it seemed to have arrived through the 80s, and 90s, into the new millennium. But obviously, with Wikileaks and Snowden and all we are forced to face an unhappy truth.

    While the surveillance is scary, the destruction of language via Newspeak goes unnoticed. How many characters to a tweet? OTOH, LMAO...
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      I never understood twitter. It's like it was set up so celebrities could say stupid stuff they would have to apologize for.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 9 months ago
        Twitter's easy for me to understand.

        It's how I find out what Lindsey Stirling, Peter Hollens, and other Youtube artists are up to and when they have new videos out.

        After offending Michelle Malkin, I learned to limit my actually commentary on twitter... :(

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    • Posted by Maritimus 9 years, 9 months ago
      Mike,
      It is much, much deeper and tougher than Wikileaks, Snowden, twitter etc.
      I would like to suggest that you read Chapter 22 in the book "Bell Curve" by Herrnstein and Murray (The Free Press 1994). If that chapter motivates you, you can read the previous 21, which I found enormously edifying and thought provoking.
      Let us know what you think.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 8 months ago
        Not much for accepting assignments without pay, I met you halfway here. I already read the book years ago, of course. Nonetheless, i went to the library, got the book, and read Chapter 22. Ingsoc of 1984 was a class-based society in which the stupid proles were controlled by the Party, within which the really clever guys really ruled. Everyone had a proper place. Is that what you meant?
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        • Posted by Maritimus 9 years, 8 months ago
          Thank you, Mike, for your response and effort. No, that is not what I want. I do want a society of free individuals choosing together their future. I am not willing to abandon the basic values of our constitution. But, I see nobody thinking constructively about how to avoid the "Tocqueville prediction". In fact, I believe that many, e.g. OB, purposefully seek it. As some Gulchers have already indicated their sense of its inevitability, my fundamentally optimistic nature makes me seek a solution. Mea culpa.
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          • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 8 months ago
            I am sorry not to understand the point you were trying to make. I do understand and agree with your comment above about wanting a society of free individuals, etc., I do not see how that ties into Chapter 22 of The Bell Curve. However, you will find the book listed here in the Gulch for discussion. http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/ce... I do understand and agree that we in America (and the world, perhaps; maybe only in the West) have this long argument about the differences between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome.

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            • Posted by Maritimus 9 years, 8 months ago
              Hi, Mike,
              My main reason for pointing to Bell Curve was, in the context of being warned (by Orwell and Rand) about ominous trends in the culture and the country, my belief that current policies deliberately deny the spectrum of cognitive ability. I find that just another manifestation of ignoring, denying and deliberately obfuscating reality.
              I took a quick look at the posting and comments on the "bell curve URL" you indicated. I see a lot of misunderstandings. Individuals are parts of groups. Statistics are meaningful only in adequate size samples representative of a group one wishes to evaluate. The most fundamental question is do you believe that cognitive ability is objectively measurable? I do. But, as the book says, cognitive ability is only about 60% inherited. Consequently ...
              Real life is different than games. In real warfare, as an old Serbian proverb says: "Two bad ones killed the hero." Team sports are a ritualized battle and despite different contributions of individual members of the team, the victory belongs to the team. A superstar soccer player cannot beet a full high school team. If one craves for recognition of the individual, let him choose singles tennis, not football.
              I have seldom seen, in one sentence, brilliance and depth expressed so clearly to me as Milton Freedman's comment on the book. That is exactly what I thought after having read the book. Except that probably I would have taken half a page to say the same thing.
              I have only small amount of time that I can dedicate to the Gulch. I would love to discuss more in detail the implications of that book. If we want to do it, and if you have the patience with the infrequency of my response in the conversation, should we move that conversation to the other post?
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years, 9 months ago
    Hello richrobinson,
    Yes we were. Orwell and Huxley had exchanges and discussed whose vision would be more likely and accurate. I believe we are seeing much of both.
    Regards,
    O.A.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 8 months ago
      Too bad that our children are no longer being exposed to those themes in school.
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      • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years, 8 months ago
        Hello Robbie53024,
        We will have to pick up the slack. I encourage people, especially my nieces and nephews, to read these materials and I will even lend them my copies, but I am a ruthless librarian. I demand they read and return them promptly. If they don't they can forget about birthday presents etc. :)
        Regards,
        O.A.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 8 months ago
          Yes. But there are fewer and fewer of us every day. We need to educate more. Good Luck. I'm confident that you are doing all you can.
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          • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years, 8 months ago
            Hello Robbie53024,
            You too. If we all reach just a few and they reach few... Like staring with a penny and doubling your money every day... We may end up with a fortune!
            Carpe diem!
            Regards,
            O.A.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      Frustrating how so many are just blindly allowing it to happen. I think of the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers movie. It's like you fall asleep and you are now part of the collective.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 8 months ago
        It started in the '50's, with the WWII vets having seen the worst horrors imaginable, not wanting to impose discipline in their children. It's not their fault, just a manifestation of their experiences.
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  • Posted by Notperfect 9 years, 8 months ago
    But I am a Conspiracy Theorist, a Bigot, Racist, low life Scum that believes in the tooth fairy with nothing to see here citizen. Move along, move along.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 9 months ago
    I have to thank you rich...

    Waaaaaaay off-topic, but in writing my my previous comment, I was inspired with a scene I plan to add to "Roarke's Drift" (yes, khalling, I haven't given up on it... SSQQ*, that's me).

    It's tornado season again, and Roarke and his crew are battling to secure the Drift with several of them on the way. Roarke is agonizing whether it would be safer (for the Drift) to batten her down or to try outrunning the storm.

    His future love-interest (still an eco-fascist at this point, and antagonist) sees the frenzied preparation, and his final decision. She looks in his face and sees a look of absolute, desperate terror. Fear that all he's worked for, all that he's built, is going to be destroyed in an eyeblink.

    She asks herself why it bothered her so much; this was her enemy, who would poison the Earth for profit. She'd seen men afraid before; delighted in making them afraid, so why does it bother her this time?

    Then she thinks of the adversity she'd seen him weather calmly, confidently, already. She looked up at the hated thing he'd created from his imagination and creativity. This indomitable enemy, now humbled and mortal because of nature's fury. She should feel the joy of triumph, and yet... "It's not fair!" the little girl still in her cried out.

    And for the first time in her life, she hated Mother Nature.

    Roarke's Drift isn't intended as a polemic like "1984" or "Fallen Angels", however. It's just meant to be a middle-finger extended to the left.

    *(SSQQ = 2S2Q = "Too Stupid To Quit.")
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 9 months ago
    More recently, and more accurately, imo, we were warned of where we're heading, in "Fallen Angels".
    http://www.baenebooks.com/chapters/06717...

    The difference is that "Fallen Angels" has an optimistic ending; Fandom built a bridge to a Gulch in the sky.

    (if you don't get it... read the darned book!)
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      Looks interesting. I'll check it out.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 9 months ago
        I think you'll like it.

        There are a LOT of references to science fiction and its fans in the book; it's actually dedicated to fandom.

        Wade Curtis == Jerry Pournelle
        Nat Reynolds == Larry Niven (I think)
        Other famous writers and SF "celebrities" are referenced, but not being in fandom, I have no way of knowing who they are. At one point, though, they meet my namesake (minus the "gh") :)

        So many lines from it that I like... among my favorites:

        "We'll get them high with illegal droogs".
        "The sister of misfortune is hope"
        "Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to take you in"

        And probably my absolute favorite...
        "Ninety-nine out of a hundred dreams came crashing down around you. But if life always fell short of your expectations, that was no argument for lowering them. There was always the hundredth dream."

        I keep wanting to do a movie trailer video for the book, as if it were going to be made into a movie (Pournelle and Niven would never allow that, after "Starshit Troupers"). But, I never have the time and resources. Mostly resources these days (sigh)
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