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  • Posted by Lucky 9 years, 9 months ago
    20 percent - seems as good as any other guess.
    The surprise is that so many regard scientists as superior to the general population in ethics -should there be such a thing.
    Rather the rule is that nearly everyone, certainly professionals, support their employer, institution, industry, or association by at one level ignoring unpleasant news, then by slanting evidence, and some of them actually make up data. The field of climate science is full of that. Having a single source of money, such as government, is a good indicator that there will be more fudging than is usual.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago
      Ever again, see Feynman's "Cargo Cult Science." We _all_ are given to fooling ourselves. That is why the best of us hold ourselves to the highest standards, rather than the lowest common denominator of "what everyone else does." With climate warming, the problem is one of paradigm.

      On the other hand, the NIH and other federal agencies do have auditors, do report fraud, and do punish the errant. "... on June 28, 2006, Eric Poehlman was sentenced to a year and a day in prison for defrauding the National Institutes of Health. The False Claims Act of 1963 (Amended 1986) makes it a crime to lie to the government in a contract. The same law provides monetary rewards to whistleblowers." from my class paper cited in this thread.

      On the other other hand, if you cheat General Electric or General Motors or General Mills, not much can be done, except to fire you. Bell Labs Lucent could do nothing to Jan Hendrik Schoen. However, his university rescinded his doctorate, even though their audit did confirm the veracity of his work. The university exists as a law unto itself. That was the intention from the very first and what "university" means - not that it studies all knowledge, but that it is whole within itself, legally.
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      • Posted by Lucky 9 years, 9 months ago
        Paradigm= Fraud in this case.
        The independence traditionally given to universities we can now see does not promote or defend freedom of speech and the integrity of the scientific method. The commercial imperative of the enterprise take over. Maybe it would not be so serious if there were not the billions within reach to support the stories of the current government. In this type of commercial imperative there is no countervailing power.
        As to university=legally within itself, very interesting.
        So like the Roman church perhaps?
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 9 months ago
    I would go along with 20% of scientists are wrong. But by defending their theory and trying to get it funded and put into use is not being a crook. It' may be being incorrect but that doesn't make them crooks. It is important to make this delineation. If you are speaking of presenting a theory to fellow scientists and you know it's fraudulent, chances are you'll be shot down quickly and won't have the opportunity to be a crook. If, on the other hand, you make a convincing argument to the public about a theory you know is false particularly in order to make a profit, you are a crook. A con man. In other words, Al Gore.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago
    "Several differently framed searches in two large academic databases supported the easy claim that misconduct, fraud and hoax were unknown in science before 1950 and remain rare today. The JSTOR database contains three million full length articles from 1200 journals, almost all peer reviewed academic periodicals, with significant titles going back before 1900. Searches uncovered zero articles about misconduct in scientific research from 1900 to 1950. [The Piltdown Hoax was an exception, but was so egregious as to be considered an outlier.] From 1950 to the present, 40 articles addressed the related problems. An obvious upswing occurred after 1987. The Gale CENGAGE Learning PowerSearchTM database covering 1980-2010 yielded 56 titles. Of course, many were reports of headline news about Jan Hendrik Schön and other immediacies in (nominally) peer-reviewed news magazines such as Science, Nature and Science News.

    "On the other hand, a relatively recent academic research survey reported that misconduct is shockingly common. Fifteen years ago, “A Social Control Perspective on Scientific Misconduct” by Edward J. Hackett appeared in The Journal of Higher Education (Vol. 65, No. 3, pp. 242-260). A survey covering the five years 1983-1988 of members of the Council of Graduate Schools found that 40% (118) received allegations of possible misconduct. Those institutions whose external funding exceeded $50 million “were far more likely than others (69% to 19%) to hear such allegations.” The same article cited a 1991 survey of AAAS members in which 27% of 469 respondents claimed to have “personally encountered or witnessed scientific research that they suspected was fabricated, falsified or plagiarized during the past ten years.” In that same issue of the JHE, Mary Frank Fox wrote: “During the last fifteen years, hardly a year has gone by without the surfacing of a notorious case of misconduct in science.” She then cited nine by name." -- ("PROCEDURAL MISCONDUCT BY SCIENTISTS: PREVENTION AND REMEDIES" By Michael E. Marotta; PHYS 406: Ethical Issues in Physics; Dr. Patrick L. Koehn; Eastern Michigan University; Winter 2010.)
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  • Posted by Temlakos 9 years, 9 months ago
    I can well believe the stories of fraud in science and medicine--especially in the science *of* medicine.

    Which is worse? Crooks--or would-be tyrants like Floyd Ferris?

    Here we see the utility of the John Galt Method of scientific research and application. In Galt's Gulch, and at the Twentieth Century Motor Company before Gerald Starnes, Senior died, a scientist worked for a businessman. He devoted his work to inventing something that businessman could build and sell on a large scale. Because to John Galt, there is never any such thing as "non-practical knowledge," nor any kind of "disinterested" action.

    In John Galt's world, private investment and R&D budgets take the place of government grants. The focus stays on invention rather than some cloudy category some wag calls "abstract knowledge."

    Sure, there's a place for the development of abstract knowledge. And the way the scientist finances that, is to develop insights that might be applicable to far more than just one business, and then offer those insights as lectures or white papers--for a price. That is what John Galt does in the Gulch: the John Galt Lecture Series on Theoretical Physics.

    Crooked science wouldn't last a year, or even that long, in Galt's Gulch.

    And the university system would no longer have the authority to judge what is sound, and what is unsound, science.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago
    Noting that Hogan is a science fiction writer and Baen is a science fiction publisher, the fact remains that the argument is valid. Here in the Gulch, when I questioned Darwinism, the mainstreamers called me "ignorant about science" and admitted to refusing to read anything on the subject.

    "Fertile hybrids demonstrate the limitations of strict Darwinian taxonomy." -- http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2012/...

    "The mechanism of evolution has not been discovered. No consistent theory exists. Random mutations adapting to changing environments was the first suggestion. When subatomic radiation was discovered, that became a proposal. Now, epigenetics may indicate another, more powerful, model. Darwinian evolution does not explain the lack of intermediate forms. Scientists have bombarded fruit flies and mice with every radiation known and produced no new species." -- http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2014/...

    " It is challenging to consider that we have about the same number of genes as mice and fish; but we have far fewer genes than plants. " -- http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2013/...

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    • Posted by ribbens 9 years, 9 months ago
      I appreciate the fact that you do not take the Theory of Evolution on face value. Here are some things that I think will help round out the picture:

      1. There is nothing about fertile hybrids that contradicts evolution. Most hybrids are infertile because they have an odd number of chromosomes. When you make gametes (sperm, in your case), you split your 46 chromosomes into their homologous pairs, and one from each pair (23 altogether) goes to each sperm. Imagine if you mated with something that had only 44 chromosomes. Your baby would have 45 chromosomes (23 from you, 22 from the mother). What would your baby do when it produced gametes? It can't split them int 22.5 chromosomes. That's why most hybrids are infertile. However, it is possible for two species to have a fertile offspring (say one has 48 chromosomes, and the other 44 - the offspring could produce gametes with 23 chromosomes). As I said, this in no way invalidates Darwin's theory that a) individuals vary, b) more individuals are produced than can be supported by the environment, and c) those individuals who are best able to reproduce are likely to see their variations increase in frequency within the population's next generation.
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      • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago
        Thanks for the reply. I agree with "narrow Darwinism" as you state it: "a) individuals vary, b) more individuals are produced than can be supported by the environment, and c) those individuals who are best able to reproduce are likely to see their variations increase in frequency within the population's next generation." Thanks also for the explanation about how species with different numbers of chromosomes can produce viable offspring.
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    • Posted by ribbens 9 years, 9 months ago
      3. The fact that their isn't a great linear relationship between number of genes and what is superficially considered the "complexity" of the organism in no way undermines Darwin's postulates. Only 1% of our DNA encodes genes (that begin with the nucleotides ATG). The more we investigate the rest, the more we discover that it spatially and temporally informs how these genes are turned on. Then you have gradients of gene products, and at five different concentrations along the organism you have five physiologically distinct outcomes.

      Furthermore, plants are actually very complex. Unlike animals, they don't germinated with ANY ORGANS - they go through organogenesis throughout their lifetime. And while they can have 3 or 4 copies of every chromosome (3 copies of one chromosome in humans is usually fatal), they also have a different mechanisms to ensure they're getting the correct gene dosage.
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    • Posted by ribbens 9 years, 9 months ago
      2. The mechanism of evolution has been discovered: modern genetics. Darwin's first postulate was that individuals within a species vary, and that some of these variations can be inherited. Genetic variation happens through a lot of different mechanisms. You have two copies of every chromosome - one from mom and one from dad. With each child you have, there is a 50% chance per chromosome pair that your child will inherit the one your mom gave you, and 50% that they will inherit the one your dad gave you. That means that there is a 1 in 2^23 chance that your second child inherits the exact same assortment of chromosomes from you as the first child.
      There is still more ways that genetic variation arises. There's homologous recombination, where both copies of the same chromosome (one from mom, one from dad) exchange pieces, so that the chromosomes you inherit don't look exactly like the chromosomes you parents have. Furthermore, the enzymes that copy DNA to make more cells (and gametes) aren't perfect. They usually only make a mistake once in a billion nucleotides, but that's a 2 nucleotide difference every time the DNA is copied.
      In my research, I have DEMONSTRATED evolution in E. coli. But E. coli has the shortest generation time known (20 minutes), and it still took 10 days to demonstrate. Fruit flies (and organism I've also studied) has a generation time of 10 days, which means it would take about 2 years to show evolution in one gene - far from a new species. BTW, no graduate student is going to sign onto a project where it takes 2 years to complete 1 experiment. That doesn't make them crooks, it just means they value their time.
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    • Posted by Lucky 9 years, 9 months ago
      I think we have been here before, the expositions of Richard Dawkins among others are clear, the genetic code being digital produces very good reproductions but they are are never quite exact. It may not be the environment that produces mutations but the inherent property of the code to not replicate exactly. I recall having seen tracking of fruit fly generations that show new species occurring, the test is who one generation can mate with. (My source was not the notorious Suzuki!).
      Intermediate forms- whenever one is discovered the creationists say there are now two gaps to explain!
      MM, your reasoning is good, but try more up to date sources.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 9 months ago
    My highest recommendation is for James Hogan's, "Kicking the Sacred Cow."
    From the publisher:
    As bestselling author James P. Hogan demonstrates in this fact-filled and thoroughly documented study, science has its own roster of hidebound pronouncements which are Not to be Questioned. Among the dogma-laden subjects he examines are Darwinism, global warming, the big bang, problems with relativity, radon and radiation, holes in the ozone layer, the cause of AIDS, and the controversy over Velikovsky. Hogan explains the basics of each controversy with his clear, informative style, in a book that will be fascinating for anyone with an interest in the frontiers of modern science.
    Samples from the book:
    http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200407/074...
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago
    _Embargoed Science_ by Vincent Kierman (University of Illinois Press, 2006). Major academic journals such as Nature, Science, the New England Journal of Medicine, and a hundred or so others, have a policy of announcing important publications by sending press releases to major mainstream media on the condition that the reporters not publish until the journal does. The result is loud bursts of astounding science stories breaking on our awareness ... which then fade … until the next time. The true costs include the loss of reflection and review, as contradictory findings roll out over the years without in-depth comparison and contrast. Another cost is the loss of independence both of the news media which will not pursue a story beyond the press release; and also among the scientists who are constrained to divulge only what they publish in peer-reviewed journals.
    "Four Books About Bad Science": http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2013/...
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  • Posted by TexanSolar 9 years, 9 months ago
    100% of the scientists? among the IIASA Society, are crooks. Most of them do not even have formal training in Climate Science. The Chief Scientist is an Anthropologist with some training from Al Gore.
    I had copied their Statutes in August 2009. It is no longer available on their website.
    The IIASA is a closed group. Real scientists like Dr Patrick Michaels are not members of the group.
    "Regular members are scientists who have spent at least one month working at IIASA---"
    "Extra-ordinary members are non-scientific people who express a special interest in IIASA, and wish to support its' work."
    Honorary members are those persons who, express a special interest in IIASA, and wish to support its work."
    "All members have the right to vote in the General Assembly."
    This group of so-called scientists is more political science than real science.
    As a Mechanical Engineer, with extensive knowledge of thermodynamic and heat transfer I dispute their findings.
    I have personally researched and evaluated the data and have found it to be inadequate to substantiate their claims.
    The historical temperature data for the oceans comes mostly from Weather Buoys. The National Data Buoy Center publishes an interactive map showing the location of all of the buoys. www.ndbc.noaa.gov As you can see from this map,almost all of the buoys are between 20 degrees South latitude and 60 degrees North latitude. Very little data is available for the South Pacific, South Atlantic, and both of the Poles.
    The IPCC group of so-called scientists have taken a very meager, hopelessly inadequate historical data set and great manipulation present us with a result that the world's temperature has increased by 1/2 of a degree over 50 years and postulate that CO2 is destroying our planet. They offer no margin for error. This is preposterous and I think very unscientific. The IPCC group of scientists who are climatologists are frauds. Most of the nonscientific members have a political agenda.
    The objective of the theory of man-caused global warming is governmental control of the energy sector of our economy. This will be the final nail in the coffin of Freedom.
    I have designed a Micro-Grid solar energy system that will economically provide for all of the energy and water needs of an off-grid independent self sustaining community. Anyone interested in being part of "Independence", Texas?
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago
    _When Science Goes Wrong: Twelve Tales from the Dark Side of Discovery_ by Simon LeVay (Plume Penguin, 2008). LeVay lays out his facts in careful narratives. In many cases, he interviewed the key actors, albeit some years after the events. He marshals the pros and cons before stating his final conclusion. The cases come from a several sciences, including volcanology, criminology, meteorology, microbiology, genetics, and nuclear physics.

    In 1993, geologists attended a conference in Columbia where the Galeras volcano had become active. They visited the calderon, climbing down into the crater. When it erupted, most of them were killed. Among the survivors was the only scientist actually wearing the protective gear mandated by the National Science Foundation. Some of the victims were in jeans and sneakers.

    The case from criminal forensics about Josiah Sutton of Houston, Texas, took DNA evidence past the confines of even the Innocence Project. In this case, the so-called gold standard of physical criminalistics proved to be fool’s gold. The police lab had committed a series of mistakes, some perhaps accidental and careless, others apparently purposefully fraudulent. The victim wrongly identified two men as her attackers. When the DNA samples matched neither man, the prosecutor insisted on their guilt, and posited the existence of a third unidentified attacker. This is a common ploy with prosecutors who refuse to admit their mistake.
    "Four Books About Bad Science":http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2013/01/four-books-about-bad-science.html
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    • Posted by MikeRael101 9 years, 9 months ago
      Mike, how many scientists does LeVay cite? In your view, how many scientists are there in the USC? In the world? I ask because I have this sense that, unless LeVay has tons of evidence, that 20% figures seems way out of whack with reality.
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      • Posted by ribbens 9 years, 9 months ago
        I agree. Do I know scientists who have been unscrupulous? Sure. But there are unscrupulous people in every profession - waiters that spit in your food and legislators who engage in insider trading. In my own training, I had to take an Ethics of Science class. I can also tell you that for those who fudged data, others tried to repeat their results. The fudgers were caught and stripped of their Ph. D.
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        • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago
          "About 1150 AD lecturers and their students came to Paris. Within the next generation, they received from the pope a charter for incorporation as a guild, thus deflecting the controls of king and bishop.

          "Oxford’s status derived from its isolated locale. Teachers and their students clustered there to be apart from the wider world. Although the bishop at Ely appointed the chancellor in 1214, by the end of the century the masters elected their board. In Cambridge, the university – also rooted in loosely connected lecturers and their students – applied for a royal charter, and continued to petition for renewal with each change of monarch. Cambridge also received papal recognition in 1233. In the 14th and 15th centuries, German universities were often founded by a local prince or baron and less often a bishop, but nonetheless continued in the tradition of a corporation, independent of the noble house. Universitas referred not to the school per se but to the law of incorporation which recognized a collective entity. Thus, universities always had the right and obligation of independent governance.

          "The disconnect comes from the fact that the ethical standards are created by professional societies whose enforcement powers are limited. The American Physical Society could do little to Jan Hendrik Schön (even if he had been a member), but the University of Konstanz stripped him of his doctorate even though they found no fault with his thesis. If universities created rigorous curricula in ethics, that would close the information loop, completing the feedback cycle, controlling the proportional, integrated or differential variances by scientists from the norms of moral and ethical practice." -- ibid.
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          • Posted by ribbens 9 years, 9 months ago
            This is a bit of a non sequitur. There are unscrupulous people in every profession, but very few professions require ethics training; molecular biology does. Furthermore, in my professional experience, unscrupulous people had their careers destroyed; that is hardly the case for many other professions.

            You may take issue with the particulars of the ethics training, but it's an extraordinary thing to accuse 20% of an entire profession of being "crooks." You have no statistically relevant evidence to support your claim and at least some anecdotal evidence to make you rationally believe the opposite.
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            • Posted by $ 9 years, 9 months ago
              By definition EVERY "profession" requires ethics training. However, if by "profession" you mean mere job title, then, yes, fewer do, For this paper, I reviewed about 15 different ethics statements from geographers to geologists and physicists to physicians. They all have ethics training. They all have ethics failures.

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