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Gregor Mendel and the Reason I Love Science

Posted by ribbens 9 years, 9 months ago to Science
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Today is the birthday of the Father of Modern Genetics. Check out Ice Dynamo (icedynamo.blogspot.com), and let Gregor Mendel show you why science is so awesome.
SOURCE URL: http://icedynamo.blogspot.com/2014/07/gregor-mendel-and-reason-i-love-science.html


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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 9 months ago
    While I'm not a scientist I look at science like a kid looking in a pre-Christmas store window. Having been a science fiction fan for many years, quantum physics became one of my hobbies and passions. What a Wonderland the universe is, from the micro to the macro. Therefore, when the government(s) subvert science by trying to use it as a propaganda device, I become outraged. True, there's a lot to get outraged about with the current regime, but science is the worst because this bogus use of science in meteorology, medicine and physics can discourage the true progress of real scientists. One more step down the path toward the decline of humanity.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      It is truly a lovely universe in which we live. As to your love of science and sf, you (and people like you) are the reason I created the blog. You'll see I've posted a few videos describing experiments and techniques you can do in your kitchen, and I have a lot more in development. I hope you can try some for yourself - there's no reason you have to stand outside the pre-Christmas store.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 9 months ago
        Thank you for creating the blog. It's one more fun thing I've discovered now that I've retired. While I can do the experiments, that doesn't mean I'm a scientist. I kinda feel like a kid with his first chemistry set. Nothing wrong with that, it surely perks up these old bones. To be good at anything, be it science or music, it requires learning, practice (lab work for a scientist) and dedication. And like any profession, be it writing fiction, slicing ham, or unraveling the mysteries of the universe, the requirement to be excellent is dedication and enjoyment. Hell is working at a job you hate, heaven is succeeding at a job you love.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 9 months ago
    Too bad real science is becoming subordinated to political goals, using "climate disruption" (to use the name which evolved from global warming to climate change, to this latest name tag) as the most glaring current example. It's difficult to find anyone in the media willing to report actual facts, when distortion and the resulting hysteria is so much more salacious.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      I ran into this a lot in academia. There are very few non-government grants, and grants are how most academic labs keep the lights on. My research involved using bacteria to convert wastewater into electricity and clean water. I was told over and over again that the goal of the grant was not to make more power, but to understand how the bacteria made power. I said, "A good way to figure out how they make power is to try to make more power, and figure out what the bacteria did differently."
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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
    Question: Would it be an accurate statement that the study of the evolution of a species is the study of how that species changes (adapts, evolves, etc) to the environment (dynamic) to survive? In other words organisms change to fit their environment and survive, while humans change the environment to meet their needs.

    The reason I ask is that I see an analogy between evolution and economics. If economics is defined as the study of how humans obtain those things needed for their survival. Then if humans were not rational animals and therefor did not invent, then the study of economics would be the same thing as the study of human evolution.
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    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 9 months ago
      Love this question too. Being an engineer, but now an executive, I think about businesses (not so much macroeconomics) as dynamic systems.
      I like the analogy that changing basic parameters is adaptation (more research or cutting overhead is like eating or exercising), but changing fundamental business features is like evolution (like products to services, outsourcing manufacture, etc). Businesses are born and die everyday; however, infrequently they do change their DNA and rise from the ashes, for example IBM of 1940s vs today.
      Suspect the same could be thought of in a macroeconomic analysis. Capitalist, socialist and communist economies competing, being "born", revolutions, etc.
      In both cases the basic structure (e.g. as defined in lifeforms by DNA) can be changed. I like the analogy.
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      • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
        Thoristsu, I think that is a very interesting analogy also. But my point is a bit more literal. If humans did have the ability to reason, then there would be no economics. Economics and evolution are about changing something to increase your survivability. Thus without a rational being economics is just the study of the evolution of that animal. Without reason (inventions) then we would study how the species adapted to acquire scarce resources instead of how they created things to acquire the resources they need.

        I know this is not the conventional way of looking at economics.
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        • Posted by teri-amborn 9 years, 9 months ago
          How many other species actually participate in studying?
          Only man can study. That knowledge can be passed on through teaching.
          THIS is what naked mankind a unique and advanced creature.
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        • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 9 months ago
          I see your point now. Stated another way, would economics be reduced to evolution (or adaptation) if human beings didn't reason (implying they couldn't invent trade, etc).
          Perhaps a way of thinking about this question is to examine the survival, evolution and adaptation of animals that do not reason (significantly). Bees and ants became economic socialists. Bears and many other species simply compete, or are capitalists. Wolves would be something in the middle?
          That is an interesting thought. I think the word "evolution" makes the concept harder, since it implies a structural change to the organism itself, but perhaps that is the eventual result.
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          • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
            I think when we can see links between different branches of science, it helps us understand both better. A mathematical analogy being that analytic geometry expanded our understanding of both Euclidean geometry and algebra. Or in physics and chemistry when we understood the relation between heat and work it expanded our understanding of physics and physical chemistry.
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            • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 9 months ago
              Have you looked at TRIZ?
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              • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
                No, I am not familiar, but I did see what wikipedia had to say. Have you worked with this system?
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                • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 9 months ago
                  A little, but not formally. I played with a very good natural language and IP software tool that used TRIZ as the background engine, and studied it a bit. Also had a Russian scientist, now working in the US, show me his work and theories. I did not understand TRIZ then, but it was clearly the basis for all he was showing me. Someday I'll get into it formally, as another in a long list of technical distractions from doing my real job.
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                  • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 9 months ago
                    You'll find TRIZ very intriguing. Besides the contradiction matrix (which too many find a challenge because they often lack the ability to generalize their problem and then take the generalized approach to a solution and convert it to a specific solution), Altshuller also identified a progression of evolution - monolithic, hinged, flexible, virtual. One example - the telephone. We went from one in a town, to one in every house, to one in nearly every room, to wireless, to cellular, to "smart" phones which are really mini-computers that also happen to include a phone app, to "magic jack" which turns your computer into a phone.
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                  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
                    I agree with invention coming from trade offs, but don't understand the 40 principles. I find most inventions have as more to do with understanding the history of the technology than pure science.
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                    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 9 months ago
                      I think of TRIZ as a mapping of a problem to a canonical space, and then viewing other problem solutions in that space, and mapping a potential solution from that canonical space, back to the specifics.
                      An example might be incorporating additives to provide thixotropic behavior in paint, by considering the desirable behavior of thixotropic fluids in brushing on thinly and easily, but once not moving, adopt a think behavior to avoid drips. Thixotropic materials become less viscous when moving (sheer forces), but are think when stationary. Invented in the late 60's, virtually all paints have this behavior now, which is why they feel so slippery. Quicksand is another simple example.
                      You bring up a good example WRT the history of a technology. A long time ago, we were seeking high power density power systems, and higher frequency (e.g. 400 Hz) was a solution, but circuit breakers were a problem. However, vacuum breakers, common in medium voltage, began their application in RF communications, and are perfectly suitable. We were looking at other lower power technologies. Vacuum bottles worked fine. There are great examples of this too, particularly when a previous barrier to a technology application is overcome somewhere else, and what didn't work, is now fantastic.
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                      • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 9 months ago
                        Exactly! What didn't work before may work now due to technology improvements. I love it when I'm working with a group that says "we tried that before" because it typically means that there is merit in the idea, but some technological issue, often one that has been addressed or can easily be overcome now that other technologies have been created elsewhere.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      I love this question. When people refer to adaptation, they tend to amalgamate two distinct but nuanced phenomena. There is physiological adaptation and evolutionary change.

      Physiological adaptation is an adjustment to the environment that occurs within an individuals lifetime. An example of physiological change is weight training: you stress your muscles and they respond by cells getting bigger, increasing the number of mitochondria, etc. This isn't a genetic change - bodybuilders don't have kids that hulk out of the womb.

      Evolutionary change is on the genetic level. You're born with the genes you have, and for the moment there's not a lot you can do about this. By luck of the draw, some organisms have a mutation that makes them better able to reproduce - they're more attractive to potential mates, better able to survive the winter and make it to mating season, etc. Those lucky winners get to have more kids, and their kids get to have more kids, so that mutation increases in frequency in the population. Such a mutation might involve more physiological adaptability - someone who can build muscles easily may attract more mates than someone who can't, but ultimately evolution acts on the genetic level.

      With that in mind, I view economics as more like physiological adaptation - how people adjust their production to changing intellectual and physical resources. You might be able to correlate economic data to genetic data to make a case for evolution - IQ (which is pretty much entirely genetic) increases generation after generation, people with productivity orientations (along with associated genetic markers) are increasing in frequency within the population, etc. However, it would take a lot of data to make such a case.
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      • Posted by mccannon01 9 years, 9 months ago
        "...a lot of data to make such a case." That is, the case of increasing IQ and productivity orientations.

        Interesting supposition that an economic system chosen by man may have an effect on evolutionary change on man. Would that mean a poorly chosen economic system would have a detrimental effect? For instance, the great welfare state may very well circumvent the natural culling of the heard, so to speak, and foster increased populations of lesser IQ and lesser productivity orientations.

        However, to even discuss such a proposition is to tread on thin ice or dangerous ground. I guess it would be far better to approach the subject as you did. That is, presuppose IQ and productivity orientations are always increasing. Like you said, it would take a lot of data to make such a case. Some of this ground was covered back in the 90's after a book called "The Bell Curve" was published.
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        • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
          I think that economic or political systems definitely select for certain types of people (although I am not sure this anything to do with genetics). Specifically, unfree societies select for the cruelest most evil people and free societies select for creative, respectful, heroic people. (Rand said something like this) Part of the point of our novels is to show this. And there is some research to back this up. There have been studies of how ordinary people could be turned into such sadists as guards in concentration camps. Or the psychological study of giving people shocks - the Milgram Experiment.
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          • Posted by mccannon01 9 years, 9 months ago
            Enjoyed "Pendulum...", are there more adventures for Hank in the future?

            I'm aware of the circumstances and studies you cite that encourage the "wrong thing" in people. I can't seem to recall any similar deliberate behavioral studies that encourage people to do the "right thing".
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            • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
              Thanks, did you or would you give us a review?

              Yes we are working hard on the next book. We hope to have it out before the end of the year. Yell at Kaila, she is the hold up right now.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 9 months ago
      I'm not sure about equating evolution with economics, but of the "sciences", most economics professors will admit that economics relies heavily on value judgments (morality) of individuals taken in aggregate. If you can identify what a particular populace "wants" (i.e. is willing to trade resources for to get) you can be a successful merchant by identifying these opportunities.

      I think the thing to consider in evaluating your proposal is something you yourself have already pointed out: that in one case we have animals who are "changed" by their environment, and in the other you have the environment being changed by man - two wholly different methods and outcomes. As such, I would say that you have already answered your own question. ;)
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      • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
        My point is that without reason then man can only adapt to the environment - meaning without reason there is no economics or economics collapses into the evolution of man.
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        • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 9 months ago
          Ah, I follow you now. It's a Monday and I'm a little slow on the pickup.

          I would agree with your conclusion: reason is fundamental and critical to the origin of economics. Nice line of reasoning there. A slightly different "adaptation" (pun intended) of the nature vs nurture argument, but applied to economics. Again, well said.
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          • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
            Thanks. I have been struggling on how to get this idea across. I think that when we see links between different area's of science it expands our understanding of both. For instance, when we understood that electricity and magnetism were related and both were related to light it greatly expanded our understanding.
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            • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 9 months ago
              I agree. Truth is truth and can sometimes be applied in multiple fields - if one is bright enough to identify the parallels and relationships.

              For instance, I do think that there will eventually be a mathematical relationship (a la "grand unified theory") that will ultimately describe the relationship between electromagnetism and gravity at some point as well. The question is how to resolve the seeming discrepancies in the various models.
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              • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
                I agree, but I think quantum mechanics is conceptually based on a house of cards. (clearly we have learned a lot on a pragmatic level) Most physicists ignore this as I did in grad school. I do not know how to resolve these problems, but there are some research physicists working on them.
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        • Posted by conscious1978 9 years, 9 months ago
          That reminds me of a few comments in Francisco's 'money speech':

          “Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions–and you’ll learn that man’s mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth." — Atlas Shrugged

          Without _reason_, without the evolution of our conceptual consciousness, we're back to a planet of the apes.
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          • Posted by Bobhummel 9 years, 9 months ago
            There are so many great themes in Atlas Shrugged, but this very one made everything " click" in my mind when I first read the book in 1974 at Cal Poly SLO. I CERTAINLY preferred AS to the other drivel on the lit. prof's reading list like Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance, grapes of wrath or issues of New Yorker magazine. AS was not on his list, but he was magnanimous enough to give me credit for 2 books. He had never read it and said he would not because of the content. Just another open minded liberal camped out in a university. He is probably still there and still hasn't read it.
            Cheers
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    • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago
      Interesting question. I would offer that genetic adaptation is a destructive process: you spawn 100,000 progeny and two of them can tolerate drier conditions...and they survive a drought whilst their other 98,000 siblings die. You need two things for rapid evolution: substantial populations and environmental stress. (There is evidence that human evolution sped up during the Neolithic, for example, due to our increase in population. Good discussion on John Hawks webpage www.johnhawks.net .)

      So, with the myriad of economic theories in our current society, it would seem ripe for observation as to whether economics is evolutionary: apply environmental stress and see which theories survive. Hmmm. Probably one that stresses preparedness and individual competence and voluntary interrelations...?

      Jan
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      • Posted by Kittyhawk 9 years, 9 months ago
        Thanks for the link to John Hawks' fascinating blog. I spent about 30 minutes reading, and I'll definitely return. Have you come across this one: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/ ? It has similar content, and is one I keep revisiting.
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        • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago
          Great site...I recall seeing it before in passing, but I never marked it and have not gone back to it as a custom. I need to remedy my error! Thank you for the link, Kittyhawk.

          And, obviously, I need to remedy my skills at basic arithmetic as well. Please be gentle; I was BC (Before Coffee).

          Jan
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    • Posted by jimjamesjames 9 years, 9 months ago
      My first degree is in Econ and my definition is "The study of the allocation of scarce resources." And one of the few great professors I had, Dr. Marty Blinn, said these magic words: "There is no morality in economics, only immutable laws. Deal with it."
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      • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
        Jim, Thanks for the input.

        However, your professor was wrong. The ethics of science requires telling the truth first and foremost, which means reporting the data accurately. This is why we know global warming prophets are not pushing science they are pushing a religion.

        I also disagree with his definition of economics (there are several out there), because it has an inherent socialist premise - that someone is in charge of the allocation. It also includes the premise that resources are fix (zero sum game).
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        • Posted by jimjamesjames 9 years, 9 months ago
          db, I agree that the gloBULL warmists are pushing an agenda but that is a non sequitur regarding economics.

          And you are assuming facts not in evidence. "The allocation of scarce resources" is simply a declarative. The only assumption I read into that is that property rights are inviolable and, regardless of the morality and agenda of the owner, the owner decides on the allocation. I also find no assumption that the resources are "fixed" in that statement. The leftist, democraps, socialists, collectivists, progressives are the ones that read spurious assumptions into it because then need (and depend on) a rationale for theft, what they call economic equality. They cannot accept that equality and liberty (property rights) are mutually exclusive and so read fiction into that declarative. They read into it: "But doesn't the owner of the resources have a moral duty to provide for those with fewer resources?" The answer is "no." He has a moral duty to live by his standards and that is all. If he is a nice guy, he allocates accordingly. If he is an SOB, he allocates accordingly with no exogenous force on his decisions.
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      • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
        Hi Jim, I probably overstated my position on your professors definition. But I do worry about those being hidden assumptions in that definition.
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        • Posted by jimjamesjames 9 years, 9 months ago
          Again, db, assumptions are just that ... and one thing about Dr. Marty Blinn (he could have been a standup comic) was "cut the crap." To his credit and my benefit , he was one of the best at being ruthless when one of us used faulty thinking or reasoning. I had his classes in the late '60s and early '70s and we had a character that dressed like Che, regurgitated all the talking points of a "communist" and he dropped two classes with Marty after being intellectually destroyed.

          Going to your point on scientists telling the truth, I'm in an ongoing and frighteningly polite intercourse with two AGW proponents, Google Eric Grimsrud, for one, and they simply will not answer "cut the crap" questions. The other is a professor at the U of Utah. They clearly have an agenda that does not stand up to truth and they obfuscate brilliantly. I have expressed my dismay at the AGW side for the lack of honesty but have made no inroads, yet, with their ideas. Oh, well, intellectual sparing keeps my feeble brain in low gear......... LOL
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 9 months ago
            Because the "severity of the issue" is paramount, data is meaningless. It is an offshoot of the "by any means necessary," mentality.
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            • Posted by jimjamesjames 9 years, 9 months ago
              Agreed. And the "by any means necessary" argument obviates all morality because the process, including theft, murder, force, is for "good" reasons, you know, "social justice," "economic justice," "equality," ad infinitum
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          • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
            Sounds like he was an excellent teacher. I am working on a book that challenge some of the underlying ideas of economics - I am particularly interested in economic growth theory. Strangely enough an area in which there has been very little research. I just completed a survey of the thinking of economists in this area.

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            • Posted by jimjamesjames 9 years, 9 months ago
              The thing I love about economics is that it covers every aspect of human existence. Cavemen, allocating scarce resources to survive, CEOs allocating scarce resources, my dad, a machinist, allocating scarce resources, all the same process and the laws of economics applying equally to each decision they made regardless of the time in human history.

              What do you mean by "economic growth theory?" My thought in using that concept is how economics works in different periods in history. A great (and entertaining) resource is Fernand Braudel's "The Structure of Everyday Life" about the daily economic decisions made in the the Middle Ages. Sub title is "civilization and capitalism in the 15th-18th centuries."
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              • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
                The reason economics got the name the dismal science is that all the classical economists predicted that economic growth (real per capita) would be limited by diminishing returns and/or increases in population. As a result, they all predicted that the majority of humans would always live on the edge of starvation (Malthusian Trap - another link to evolution).

                By the time John Stuart Mill comes around it is impossible to deny the changes brought about by the Industrial Revolution and he predicts the economy will grow for awhile and then reach a plateau, which he sees as positive.

                Historically, economics states the inputs to the economy are Land, Labor, and Capital. Land is fixed so growth cannot come from there. Increasing the population does nothing to increase real per capita incomes. So most growth models focused on the increase in capital. However, because of diminishing returns, increases in capital will continually have lower returns. Updated version of this idea ignore this problem. However, just injecting capital into third world countries has never resulted in economic growth. This does not explain why the Industrial Revolution happened or why it happened where it did.

                Robert Solow does a study in the 50s or 60s and shows that most (all) economic growth is not the result of increases in capital, but increases in technology.

                Paul Romer is the best known New Growth Theorist. I do not agree with everything he says, but he demonstrates the point about technology fairly well in this article http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/Econ....

                As I said I am writing a book on this, so I could go on forever.
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                • Posted by jimjamesjames 9 years, 9 months ago
                  I tend toward classical economic theory, the land, labor, capital concepts because, rationally, those three components are all needed to create wealth. Consider that those that have the land and the capital (scarce resources) have the right to allocate them but labor, unitary individuals, do not have as much weight in the equation. I pained me to realize a few years ago that, from an individual vs collective idea, that labor collectives, i.e., unions, were a "just" approach to selling value to those who controlled land and capital. Not to get into the "good union/bad union" BS, but as long as there are free minds and free markets and no force initiated, each component should (and will) be allocated depending on expected returns.

                  Malthus, Mill, Ricardo, Hume, Smith... all of them, did not see what technology could bring about because, in a historical sense, they had seen only historical technological developments like the stirrup, ox yoke, improved plows, water powered mills and, eventually, steam power, allowing technology to explode.

                  Solow is right, IMHO, that it is not the increase in capital that creates more wealth (except in the sense of "rent" from land) but I see it as the allocation of individual minds in a free market. Very little capital was employed by Jobs and Gates, in the beginning.

                  As long as my mind is wandering, let me add my thoughts on "the business cycle" which, I believe, is an organic, unavoidable happenstance within free markets. That problem can be worked through, by individuals (companies), by allocating scarce resources efficiently. That increased efficiency is a component of increased wealth.

                  The problem, IMHO, is the all-knowing experts in government, rationalizing Keynes and Marx, is to "fix" the business cycle which is based on a morality involving theft, the initiation of force, cronyism, favoritism, fraud and predictable government incompetence.

                  Okay, I'm going to go take my nap.......(smile)
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                  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 9 months ago
                    Jim, aren't you and Dale Halling ignoring the first
                    cause of the increase in those resources which we
                    call "scarce" -- the idea? creative thought covers
                    not only technology but also the interaction between
                    people (including economics) and the changes in
                    "culture" -- including methods of resource use,
                    and the selection of resources in the first place.

                    all of these change the size and nature of the pie
                    which grows and changes and is dynamically divided
                    by people.

                    it seems to me, an engineer, that it's like studying
                    the weather, where everything affects everything
                    else, and the only hope for a solution to the myriad
                    simultaneous "equations" is the exclusion of large
                    "impossible" or "damned unlikely" solution spaces.
                    an Israeli software designer did this with a factory
                    scheduling product which was called OPT, at first,
                    which we used where I worked. fantastic, but
                    very complex. it did not allow for changing capacity
                    and consumption rates, nor changing resource-
                    use alternatives, during repetitive scheduling.
                    the dynamism of the real world defies easy
                    simplification.

                    at least, right now, we have life proving that John
                    Maynard Keynes was wrong -- as his ideas
                    have been employed recently.

                    whatta challenge!!! -- j

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                    • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
                      John, actually that is my point. Inventions are the source of economic growth and the most important policy for increasing inventions is patents or property rights for inventions.

                      The economics profession has tried to use the mathematics of Quantum Mechanics to explain how the economy works. So far it has resulted in very little useful information. I think (at least in part) this is because inventions are not a variable that can be put into your simultaneous equations.
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                      • Posted by jimjamesjames 9 years, 9 months ago
                        John, I think Dale states it very well. I might add that inventions are the product, for the most part, of individual minds working to solve a problem that affects human quality of life. Land lies fallow until an idea, an invention comes along; capital sits and collects dust until an idea or invention comes along; labor sits and watches day-time TV until an idea or invention comes along.

                        I created an equation for my grandson to simplify where wealth comes from: Sun+Earth+Ideas = Wealth and I made sure he learned that wealth is not measured in money, it is measured in the quality of life.

                        Economics, the allocation of scarce resources to improve the quality of life, if you will, gets sticky when some have different ideas about how it should be distributed. AR stated "never initiate force" and that should be the primary tenet of any distribution system.
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                        • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 9 months ago
                          Jim, thanks. I think your point that inventing is inherently about the individual mind is very important and leads to the need for people to own themselves or Natural Rights.

                          In my opinion no school of economics is consistent with Rand's ideas. For instance, they do not emphasize or build upon the idea that man is a rational animal, that he creates thinks to improve his life by inventing (of course reproduction of inventions is important and is known as manufacturing), which is the source of economic growth.

                          Anyway that is the thesis of my next non-fiction book. Although I will not be emphasizing Rand.
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