The Federal Reserve American Dream Explained

Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 10 years, 7 months ago to Economics
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Here is a cartoon especially for khalling, because I know how much she enjoys them. :)

Seriously, this is a very interesting cartoon. I apologize about the length, but I would greatly appreciate your thoughts.
Respectfully,
O.A.

SOURCE URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1NVPEg1jrQ


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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 7 months ago
    kh or mm would either or both of you explain how the $17 trillion in Federal debt will be repaid? Would either or both explain how the approx. $70 trillion in mandated payments will be met? How about the global debt of $51 trillion and growing?
    http://www.economist.com/content/global_...
    How has debt helped Detroit? I don't understand.
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    • Posted by khalling 10 years, 7 months ago
      You are confusing debt(which is collateralization) with over-spending. I am not defending overspending, and I am certainly not defending legalized theft. Without debt or collateralization there would not have been a spice trade. We would have never built out a power grid. The semi conductor industry would not have been built. Bio technology, internet, automobile industry, etc. New technologies require the ability to collateralize intellectual property, in order to commercialize them, make them available which is what makes us wealthier on a per capita basis. It is important to identify the root causes of our problems and not destroy the system which in 200 years has resulted in most of mankind escaping the Malthusian Trap.
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      • Posted by $ johnrobert2 10 years, 7 months ago
        Ah, but escape is becoming harder and harder to accomplish. The proliferation of moochers and bums will overwhelm the ability of producers and force a Darwinian contraction, such as was seen in the final chapters of AS. Even those who purpose to not become as those will fall victim. Malthus was correct. It's just we have been able to stay ahead of the curve by geometric advances in production but the parasites can grow exponentially.
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      • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 7 months ago
        You are confusing private debt with public debt. In the eighties, I witnessed many semicon companies go under. Demise is the price a company pays inefficiency. Public debt is being shoved down our throats,along with the throats of our children, grandchildren, and those not yet thought of. Impossible to repay public debt always leads to war and misery for the screwed but not for the theives.
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        • Posted by khalling 10 years, 7 months ago
          j, public debt just like private debt can be good or bad. for instance, we would have never won the Revolutionary War or WWII without public debt. It is not debt that is the problem, it is the SPENDING. wasteful spending , spending to buy votes, steal money for political purposes, etc. is bad whether it is financed with debt or taxes. Good debts are those which are necessary to protect the citizens, the people of the country. Not all companies which fail, made bad decisions. the debt or other collateralization was not wasted or wrong.
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          • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 7 months ago
            "Good debts are those which are necessary to protect the citizens, the people of the country"

            Yes!!! when taken on by a LIMITED GOVERNMENT might be good and necessary in wartime or severe natural disaster. Any further public debt is THIEVERY - I don't want my grandson going into debt to pay for a study of the mating habis of frogs.
            What in your estimation did Detroit do that every city, county, state, and the federal govt. is not still doing? How do you calculate they will escape the same fate?
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          • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 7 months ago
            You say that like World War II was a good thing. Ayn Rand was not so sure.
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            • Posted by Rocky_Road 10 years, 7 months ago
              The mobilization for WWII was the catalyst for America's final recovery from The Great Depression...10 years behind the rest of the world.

              The liberal social engineering prior to 1941 was otherwise doomed to keep us in that economical hole.
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              • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 7 months ago
                If you think that war brings prosperity in any way, shape, or form, then you know very little about economics. Even if the economics were difficult, reasoning from first principles should lead you to suspect that the unreal and irrational are unworkable. Therefore anything you were told about "prosperity" coming from "mobilization" has to be a lie, even if you could not pinpoint the actual data.
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                • Posted by Rocky_Road 10 years, 7 months ago
                  "...then you know very little about economics."

                  I know enough to know what history tells us. I know what I was taught in college. I know the times that I lived through. Do you?

                  "Even if the economics were difficult...."

                  No difficulty here for me,,,but I suspect that you have a difficulty with the reality of putting the nation into full production mode, and introducing the women into the work force, on every level.

                  "...even if you could not pinpoint the actual data."

                  My bad for assuming that most of us here had an understanding of what took us out of The Great Depression. I'll not waste my time proving gravity to those that don't understand why they don't just float away from having so much hot air in them....

                  Be sure to post your resume if you answer this...we have only seen it about 5 times. Some of us have forgotten the 'highlights'!

                  P.S. 'Bite me".

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                • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago
                  There is one benefit to a military buildup that does help to mitigate some of the damage. We sell our older surplus production to allies.
                  The true benefit to the people is after the war is over and then only in certain circumstances. Many believe the military buildup itself improved our economy after WWII, but that is not true. It was government spending and borrowing that fueled the jobs during the war, but it was the aftermath that actually improved our economy. It was our massive industrial capability left after the war that allowed us to export goods to nations that had their infrastructure and industrial operations decimated during the war.
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                  • Posted by $ brewer37 10 years, 7 months ago
                    Yes, but where did all of the resources come from to build the infrastructure? It could have been done without the war.
                    The one thing large scale war does to improve an economy, is eliminate a larger percentage of the population than of the global wealth. That's a pretty rough way to improve your economy.
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                    • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago
                      The loss of life is harsh to be sure. The Infrastructure in this case was built during the war by a government borrowing or printing money. In the case of WWII it turned out to be a good investment (an exception to the rule to be sure). This is a set of circumstances unlikely to occur again...
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                      • Posted by $ brewer37 10 years, 7 months ago
                        When the gov prints money, it is taking value out of existing currency. So, the money comes from the public. That is not a net gain. Borrowing must be re-paid. That is not a net gain.
                        The same economists saying that war production was a good thing, were declaring disaster at the end of the war, due to the loss of a valid reason for having great control over the economy. But the people who survived the war were tough, resourceful, and fiercely independent.... and that is the reason for the post WWII economy growth. Not the government war spending. The mentality of the people.
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                        • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago
                          I agree with all you have stated. The exception in this case was the value added to the products sold which was in excess of the money borrowed. It was our gain but the debtor nations loss. The loss to us was the devaluing of our currency, but in that world market, with other nations in worse shape than we, it was to our benefit... We were in the catbird seat... Their loss our gain...
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                          • Posted by $ brewer37 10 years, 7 months ago
                            I think I I see. We were able to benefit from the great loss of other nations... mostly by loosing less and being able to sell them what they were no longer able to produce. If I understand it correctly, I don't like that line of economic thinking very much.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 7 months ago
    what I heard was an anti-fractional reserve banking argument. Congress forced them to loan money to highly risky borrowers for political purposes mixed with bad policy decisions by the Fed (not part of fractional reserve) and also distorts the money supply,. In combination with other bad policies resulted in a stagnant economy and the easy money hid these problems or delayed them until it exploded.
    Some of the policies, such as sarbanes oxley and changes to the patent system and increases in regulation generally shrank the number of choices for investors to look at, which is why they were focused mostly on real estate. The stagnant economy resulted in real household incomes declining-something that did not even happen in the great depression.
    The borrowing was only one problem and might not have been a big deal if these other policy decisions had not happened.
    Upshot: getting rid of the Fed is fine, getting rid of fractional reserve banking-fail.
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    • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 10 years, 7 months ago
      Exactly. Get rid of the fed reserve bank. Which is what I've been talking to my kids about.
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      • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago
        Absolutely. The promises of a more stable economy by virtue of a Federal reserve, have proven to be false and history has shown that the economy has become more unstable, while our money is losing value due to their tampering with the supply....
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 7 months ago
        You are raising them to agree with you. By what methods are you raising them to think for themselves? My daughter and I disagree about much. She is a conservative.
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 7 months ago
          If you have your kids think things thru to their logical conclusion instead of jumping on the band wagon of emotional, knee jerk, reactions that's half the battle (or maybe 80%). If when they question us (their parents) and instead of saying "because I said so" we give them a reasoned answer they will grow up questioning authority and expecting reasonable answers...and will demand them some day. Sticking to principles, sticking to a budget, not being afraid to say, "No we can't buy that because we can't afford it, or have more important things to buy." they will respect a money and how it's earned. There are many ways to teach kids to think for themselves and it starts with letting them ask questions and giving them appropriate consequences for choices not well thought out and discussing that process. My oldest son challenges me all the time. Undoing the altruist damage that society and school crams into them isn't easy. He is an adult now and his life is his own. He likes to debate so... that's a good sign.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 7 months ago
    Thumbs down on this. (Thumbs Up to khalling for her comment.) In fact DEBT is the SEED OF CIVILIZATION. (see here: http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2011/...)

    If you scrape the surface, you find a lot of anti-Semitism here, also. These crypto-Germanophiles want some kind of mystical VolksEkonomie based on farming and barter. Commerce, trade, banking, and civilization depend on something else (See here: http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2011/...)

    It is cogent that Midas Mulligan (not John Galt) was actual Prime Mover of the Strike. As a banker, Mulligan looked to "make money from debt" as this video complains.

    As a numismatist, I assure you that GOLD COINS had very little to do with capitalism. American was built on paper promises. (See here: http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2013/...).

    The Federal Reserve has a lot of problems, but being a bank is not one of them. The idea of a "bankers' bank" and a "bank of last resort" has sound capitalist commercial foundations. In his plagiarized works, Murray Rothbard tells the story of the Suffolk Bank. (See here: http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2012/...)

    Most people call it "coin collecting" and think of old Uncle Frank pushing identical Lincoln Cents into a blue Whitman folder. In fact, numismatics is the art and science that studies the forms and uses of money (see here: http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/2011/...) and it shows that this anti-capitalist, anti-Semitic, anti-banking volksekonomie is the hallmark of the limited mentality of the the conservative muscle-mystic who thinks that Atlas Shrugged is a just a diatribe against liberals.
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    • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 7 months ago
      Thumbs down on this "In fact DEBT is the SEED OF CIVILIZATION"
      See this chart http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0024_feder...

      Little government debt equals prosperity. How long will it take you to learn this..
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      • Posted by khalling 10 years, 7 months ago
        here's where we disagree, j. If you have a tax rate of 90% for everyone and no public debt, this will not prosperity. If the govt spends 90% of the GDP but incurs no debt, you still will not have prosperity.
        Debt is an indicator of overspending, but is not the real reason for our problems. You are missing cause and effect. Why this is important. You are giving politicians an argument to raise taxes.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago
          No new taxes! Yes the politicians always see it that way... never reduce spending just increase revenue... never-mind the inevitable bankruptcy...
          We must convince or replace enough of them to force them to see the necessity of spending within our means. We are probably too late... :(
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    • Posted by 10 years, 7 months ago
      Very interesting material. Thank you for the contributions. I do not see the antisemitism you see. Perhaps I am not looking with such a cynical eye... What, if anything, do you see as redeeming in the video?
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    • Posted by $ johnrobert2 10 years, 7 months ago
      Interesting stuff, Mike. Certainly an arcane subject to be sure. Although I could have done without the socialist/communist cant of the last paragraph. The facts will speak for themselves without the embellishment of propaganda-speak.

      I note with interest your authorship of the 4th article cited. Well done.
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