We Will Not Conform

Posted by khalling 9 years, 9 months ago to Movies
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tomorrow night in theaters across the country. (showing in two theaters in my former city)
SOURCE URL: http://www.fathomevents.com/event/we-will-not-conform-live/more-info/details


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  • Posted by ISank 9 years, 9 months ago
    Looks pretty interesting, I can catch the 440 America, have time for a beer and hot dog then hit the 8:00 for this.

    My state, Hawaii is part of the common core push, and it has been since I've been teaching so it's always been part of education for me. I'm going because I'd like to learn the cons.

    I teach social studies if it's my job to have them read primary sources then guys like Locke, or Hayek, or Bastiat have authored some pretty interesting material. If it's analyze a graph then look at social security, there's one data point stating fewer seniors in poverty but nine other graphs can show it's not sustainable.

    We start the common core testing this upcoming school year, called SBAC for 11th graders.
    Dang I'm happy teaching mostly seniors. At least the AP exams while standardized can allow the students to get college credit. And AP courses seem to be exempt from common core.

    So tomorrow night it is, a double feature for me.
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    • Posted by $ Mimi 9 years, 9 months ago
      Do you like teaching in Hawaii?
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      • Posted by ISank 9 years, 9 months ago
        Thanks for asking
        1. I love living here, rock climbing is scarce but we the pacific.
        2. My career has been as a boat Captain which I loved but teaching is an absolute riot. The kids are fantastic and I do my best to challenge the young minds.
        3. Sadly I'm paid from taxation but over my lifetime I will end up being taxed more than I will be paid from taxes. Yes I did the math.

        Have fun!
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  • Posted by KCLiberty 9 years, 9 months ago
    No thanks. Beck is controlled opposition. He pretends to be a rebel, but in the end always aligns with the corporatists and international banksters. He's very good, but that reflects his CIA training.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
      He was in the CIA? I see him more as an emotional appealer. I thought I would like the technology center he was incorporating into his " community " but that seems to be flash more than serios inventing. He does seem to align with the corporatists...so does Limbaugh
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  • Posted by MikeRael101 9 years, 9 months ago
    I attended a Glenn Beck movie in the past. Way overpriced and with little value, or so I found. I looked at the price--$20 for 1 ticket. Joy(:: If it came on the Blaze at no extra cost, great. But $20 for it? Nope. I know, I'd miss the "interactive" part at home, but really and truly, how could it be interactive? I attended a tea party meeting billed as "interactive"--and it really was. The speaker, Ed Hudgins, came to us via the web. He only talked to us that way, as far as I know, not a few hundred different locations as with Beck's movie. After the lecture part was over, many of us asked questions and were given answers by Dr. Hudgins. Now *that* is "interactive."!
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 9 months ago
    The opposition to the Common Core standards crystallizes a big part of what I understood the two Ayn Rand books I've read as condemning. It seems to me like politicians get elected by exploiting the differences in people urban vs. rural, pot smoking vs. gun owning, non-religious vs religious, etc. News outlets do this, similar to how I am happy in my paid writing to write about something that will bring lots of comments and hits. No one is evil in this; it's just something that works to get votes and hits. Many voters get their info passing by a TV a the deli, and histrionics gets their attention.

    Some part of the population pays close attention to it and becomes convinced we're in a pitched battle for survival against an ideology. They look for anything to condemn the outgroup. **Taking it to an absurd level that sounds like a joke, they read boring school worksheets that are loosely associated with an education initiative associated with someone seen as part of the outgroup, in an attempt to discredit them.** Instead of taking charge of their kids' education, they use the standard as a political prop to make a scene over. I'd like to think a Gail Wynand is behind it, seeing just how absurdly he can get people to act to reassure himself he does indeed run things; but I think this is an organic phenomenon that crops up out of industries that live for attention, media and politicians. Its sounds absurd b/c we're talking about some education initiative, but it makes sense to the people who buy into it b/c the outgroup is supposedly out to destroy civilization. In desperation we turn off reason and look for in-group shibboleths, probably a behavior that had a selective advantage in packs and tribes.

    I see this behavior more often in leftwing people than rightwing only b/c I happen to know more of them. I also know a lot of tech libertarians who think there's a technology answer to everything; I'm probably one of them. Anyway, if people spend much time listening to Amy Goodman or Glenn Beck, they often start seeing the world as a desperate ideological struggle.

    The opposition is either group politics taken to a laughable extreme, something that I will realize 20 years from now was actually right and I was a fool, or something in the middle.
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    • Posted by $ katrinam41 9 years, 9 months ago
      Having dealt with Common Core for two generations (children and grandchildren), I suggest that you look into just what the fuss is about. It is dumbing down our kids and controlling education from the Federal level, neith4er of which will do this country any good, and worst of all, it discourages critical thinking. Back when my son was fighting the school system in 5th grade, bored out of his mind, I got hold of the Washington State manual detailing what our kids were supposed to learn. Seven attributes in all, one of which was "Ambiguity". I asked the teacher why our kids should learn to be ambiguous, and she told me it meant they would have an open mind!
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 9 months ago
        There's a problem that schools were created to produce workers who could follow procedures and do the three Rs. People still need to learn that, but almost anything that's based just on the "the three Rs" and following procedures can be done by robots or will be done by robots soon. People need to learn to think critically and apply technology, not to follow procedures, but write code for robots to execute.

        I am not counting on the public schools for my kids, although we're thinking of sending them there b/c it's a short walk. We'll see how it goes. I do not have high expectations, but I do not think it's a conspiracy.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
          we are about creating inventors not workers
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          • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
            we are not about creating work forces for Microsoft-we should be about creating entrepreneurs who explode Microsoft into a million pieces of good fortune for consumers....shhhh...microsoft isn't keen on that
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 9 months ago
              Yes. Maybe Microsoft funds some of those startups, causing more jobs, requiring people to buy from its mature businesses, making money for shareholders on two fronts. Maybe it struggles and underperforms. Maybe it implodes and lots of people learn hard lessons that they apply in their next venture. Maybe it becomes famous for some minor division no one's heard of now. This is exactly how things should work. We don't want things to stay the same.
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        • Posted by $ katrinam41 9 years, 8 months ago
          Good luck, CG. I hope your school is one that will actually teach the kids to think. I see too many schools who want those robots. In my writers' group, the younger members always got upset that I used so many words to describe people, places and ideas. They couldn't figure out what most of those words meant. When we lose a generation because they have no words to express a concept, how can they understand a concept, how can they even know it exists? This is what our schools have done for at least three generations and the result is now becoming apparent to those of us who had that old-fashioned schooling that taught us to think critically.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 8 months ago
            It's funny that people went to a writers group and then didn't like using advanced words. That only makes sense if they wanted to write for a juvenile audience.
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            • Posted by $ katrinam41 9 years, 8 months ago
              It makes sense if these children are being taught less and less in our schools... they are beginning to lack the vocabulary that will allow them to express and understand those concepts that authors like AR have been fighting to disseminate for as long as there have been thinking human beings. It is horrifying to me that "thinking" human beings can so totally twist others to conform and no one seems to care. Maybe we're already that far gone into the dark night of totalitarianism.
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 9 months ago
          A short walk to learn NOT to think. Yeah, that makes sense CG.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 9 months ago
            They're 4 and 6. We're planning on pulling them out of parts we don't like. Schools that would require a bus ride didn't seem much different. We've been known to pull kids out of a school and sue them, although I don't want to repeat that. We plant to supplement with additional materials and activities. We are fortunate that we can pull them out and homeschool if we so choose b/c our schedules are flexible. .

            Most people think their kids are above average, esp in the Upper Midwest (near Lake Wobegone), but if you met our kids you're realize how foolish this sounds. Our 6 y/o spots logical fallacies, and I think our 4 y/o does on a more intuitive level. It's just nonsense that we won't teach our kids critical thinking. You should meet us at least once before making such judgements.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 9 months ago
              "I am not counting on the public schools for my kids, although we're thinking of sending them there b/c it's a short walk. We'll see how it goes. I do not have high expectations, but I do not think it's a conspiracy."
              And..... you don't think it's a conspiracy... I'll make such judgements, thank you very much.
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 8 months ago
                You've never even met me.
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                • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 8 months ago
                  I can READ.
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                  • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
                    lol. she got you there cg
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                    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 8 months ago
                      I don't know if it's just regional, but I've never heard of people speaking to one another in this way, except maybe on those commentary shows whose subtitles I see at the gym. I've had business trips to the East Coast, including one to Long Island, and I never see this stuff, despite the stereotypes. Maybe they're all not in other industries or in their basements. Or maybe I know them and they just hold their tongue without anonymity.

                      I once walked it into a Starbucks in Manhattan, and I think the barista thought it was my first time off the farm; she wasn't openly hostile though.

                      There probably are a million people who would accuse someone of being a bad parent without knowing him, more than a million if you count nursing activists. I just don't know them and really don't want to.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
        Post! I want the whole story on this kat! interesting
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        • Posted by $ katrinam41 9 years, 8 months ago
          I saw the math problems my grandchildren have to solve--they make no sense at all. To arrive at a simple answer is impossible without simple memorization of the tables, and the kids aren't taught that anymore. I will find the email my son sent with one sample question and post it for you. There are many more examples in other subjects. As for my kids' schooling, the teachers tried to get my son on Ritalin for most of his young life because they found him "disruptive". I refused and he eventually was stuck in a slow learners' room. In January of his senior year, the so-called counselor told me there would be no graduation because of three missing math credits. He also told me my son would never be able to do math. Well, to put it mildly, the man was wrong. Before his class reached graduation day, my son had gone to the local college for his GED, paying for it with a part-time messenger job, then enlisted in the Navy. He started out with 100 other kids in sonar school and 1 1/2 years later graduated with the other 5 that survived the course. To do that, he had to pass algebra, geometry, calculus and trigonometry. The school system tried every trick in the book to make him conform, to make me ashamed of my own kid for not conforming. The fight during those eight years was no fun, and now he has to battle for his own kids...
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 8 months ago
            "Before his class reached graduation day, my son had gone to the local college for his GED, paying for it with a part-time messenger job, then enlisted in the Navy."
            I love this story. Many people in engineering school received enlisted training from the Navy, and they had a huge advantage over people fresh out of HS. Whatever path he wants, he sounds like a guy who goes out and gets it. That's so refreshing compared to stories about why people *aren't* achieving.

            BTW, in high-tech "disruptive" is an over-used positive word. It means bringing a product or service to a group of people who previously couldn't get it. Keep disrupting!
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 8 months ago
            Wow. There is a reason why they don't teach things in a way that makes sense anymore. They don't want these kids to grow up and expect logic in life, they want them to look to others for answers (even if they, themselves, do not understand the answers). They WANT them to be dependent, to not think freely or critically, to not question, to not notice, and to not be certain about anything. They want them to be easily led sheep. This is why the Constitution is barely taught, and when it is taught it's with lazy brush strokes with no in-depth discussion about the importance of individualism and freedom. WE ARE LOST.
            I am happy that your son did not go on ritalin...that is a management tool for teachers who have too many kids in a classroom. Some kids need a lot of one on one and they don't have the resources for that, so they push drugs instead...which is a mind numbing of another kind. In my opinion it is done on purpose, large classrooms with all levels of kids mixed in, does NOT make for the highest learning possible for any student. It's a pigeon hole. And Common Core is going to make it so much worse as it is a faster way to make sheep.
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 9 months ago
      Okay...I couldn't get passed the pot smoking vs gun owning bit. WTH?
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 9 months ago
        I'm saying I think you've been duped or are trying to dupe other people, but I may be singing a different tune once my kids start the program. We interviewed three schools, not counting the one we sued, and the one complying with CC seemed the best. We thought the school we sued was great, though, so we've been known to be wrong. I'm going be shocked if it turns out CC is anything more than some boring gov't standards.
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        • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 8 months ago
          If you look you'll notice. However, since you won't be in the classroom you will miss much. Some of it's subtle. So subtle many teachers don't see it. The story math problems with a leftist bent. The revised history. The food give aways. The collective children's books. Stuff that doesn't come home in a work folder.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 8 months ago
            "So subtle many teachers don't see it. The story math problems with a leftist bent. The revised history."
            We will keep an eye on the school. My wife and I have a leftist bent, but I certainly don't want news and history for me or my kids that just corroborates what I want to be true. I want them to develop their own opinions, not their own facts.

            If they're teaching them leftwing ideas they're some of the same ideas they get at home and from friends. Our neighborhoods is 85% liberal, although I really think it would be lower if moderate libertarian were a widely understood option. The important thing is for people to learn a system of scientific critical thinking and math to model systems. If the school really is promoting a political agenda, I see homeschooling in our future.

            "The food give aways. The collective children's books."
            I don't even know what this is. Just like every time the kids grow another year, I'm in for a whole new set of issues. :)
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 8 months ago
              If you don't have your eyes and ears open (I'm not saying you don't, but most typical parents' aren't open all that wide) you'll miss plenty. The school I worked at gave food bags away every friday to selected kids (on what criteria I do not know), but the message this sends to small minds is plain wrong. (I will avoid going into a rant here.) As for the books the teachers, counselor, or whoever, read to them, if you're paying attention, many have collectivist ideas in them. (The Rainbow Fish for one). But I only read one book there that leaned towards teaching individualism instead of collectivism. (The Gingerbread Girl). I loved reading to the kids, and I would always question the happenings of the story as I read and do a review at the end of how I didn't really like this or that part because...... the kids LOVED it when I did this too... but I didn't get to read to them very often since my real job was to be a testing machine...(constant testing... but if a student showed an interest in a certain topic while I was testing I'd stop and elaborate and answer questions, although I didn't really have the time to spend on anything outside of our rigorous testing schedule).
              My point is...in public school you aren't there to notice, or monitor, or say "no, this is not something I want you teaching my kid" and kids sure don't know when they're being spoon-fed garbage, that's up to the parents to curtail. So public schools have an easy job of indoctrinating. And I never once, in my ten years of being there, heard a discussion about freedom, or individual rights (other than on MLK day)...schools or sorely and purposely lacking on these very important topics...and it isn't being noticed at all, as far as I know, by parents in my area. I finally shrugged the whole thing and now work from home. With common core coming down, it was time to go. I tried to wake up as many as I could on my way out.... I don't think anyone heard me.
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            • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 8 months ago
              LetsShrug is right. It starts in kindergarten with the book "Rainbow Fish". Actually it started before the first day of kindergarten when everyone who brought their school supplies was promptly told to put in a bin for everyone to use. That actually happened within the first couple of minutes that I was dropping off my daughter's school supplies and I was meeting my child's new teacher. My daughter thought that teacher was the second worst she ever had.
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 8 months ago
                I can overlook some of that, but if it's a pattern we won't be able to use the public schools.

                If the schools are filled with impolite people, we will be moving them out immediately. We'll never prepay a term for two kids again.
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              • Posted by Solver 9 years, 8 months ago
                What an idea! If a single child breaks say two dozen shared paint brushes we can just call it a social accident and demand the all the parents for next years kindergarten class buy extra supplies.
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          • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
            If I was one of the kids getting the Friday food I would HATE it. The only way I could cope especially if my parents wanted the food would be to get cynical and contemptuous toward the giver. What an inefficient system. Having teachers determine which kids families could use help and spend their teaching time sorting and distributing food. Surreal really.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 8 months ago
              I will NOT miss tip toeing around those Friday bags. I was the only one who saw the wrong in it and refused to be a part of it. And not one person asked Why I was so against it. I think the word "why" has become a politically incorrect word. No one wants to be perceived as nosy. (or Informed, apparently).
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