Galt's Gulch

Of Tolerance and Intolerance by John Gee

Posted by FlukeMan2 9 years, 9 months ago to Books
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In his review of D. A. Carson's "The Intolerance of Tolerance" John Gee actually provides a great summary of Carson's ideas. Please read it and tell me what you think.
SOURCE URL: http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/of-tolerance-and-intolerance/

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  • Posted by flanap 9 years, 9 months ago
    The definition of tolerance needs to be nailed down before any meaningful discussion can take place, else, the premises of those presenting arguments really cannot be identified accurately.

    The definition of tolerance changes as quickly as the political winds...I find it useless to engage the discussion.

    I prefer words like condone, excuse, acquit, approve, etc...which are more technical and precise in meaning.
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    Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 9 months ago
    As someone who grew up in the Mormon cult and lived in Utah for a majority of my life, I can personally attest to the fact that those who adhere to the Mormon ideology have, especially lately, been twisting the idea of "tolerance" and using it as a cloak for prejudice and bigotry, trying to claim that we have to tolerate their intolerance, or else we ourselves are guilty of intolerance. It's basically just pushing an ideal to a ridiculous and irrational extreme so that they can feel morally justified in perpetuating their prejudice and persecution. This exact same line of reasoning has been used to oppose Civil Rights issues nearly every time they've come up in the past, and now we're seeing a resurgence of that due to the current fight for equal human rights in our nation.
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    • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 9 months ago

      "Tolerance" isn't the same as "acceptance"... GET IT? I let you live... that's tolerance. You expect me to celebrate your birthday... that's acceptance.

      I know what you require people to accept to avoid the label of "bigot". I... don't... care... and increasing numbers of people don't care. In the past, millions have accepted ridiculous propositions simply to avoid being labeled "bigot" or "racist" or "intolerant", but we're on to you now, and we're not going to *accept* the absurd simply because you threaten to call us names if we don't.
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      • Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 9 months ago
        I suppose there is a legitimate argument that those who fight for Civil Rights ought to use the word "acceptance" instead of the word "tolerance," since you are technically correct about the meaning of the words. But look at it this way: if a man says he tolerates black people, but doesn't accept them, is it at all logical to try and claim that he isn't a racist bigot? No, not in the least. And if we were to allow such a prejudiced attitude to carry over into legislation, it would only empower the bigots and give them free reign to engage in persecution all they wanted, while denying the victims any legal recourse to fight back. And when you deny people the ability to fight back legally, they turn to methods which are, shall we say, less than legal...

        Have you seen the movie "Mandela: Long Walk to Freedom"?
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmm-aazQ...
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        • -1
          Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 9 months ago
          "if a man says he tolerates black people, but doesn't accept them, is it at all logical to try and claim that he isn't a racist bigot?"

          Yes. By definition a bigot is INtolerant.

          " And if we were to allow such a prejudiced attitude to carry over into legislation, it would only empower the bigots and give them free reign to engage in persecution all they wanted, "

          If one TOLERATES, one does not PERSECUTE. Your own argument is a logical contradiction (on purpose).

          "Have you seen the movie "Mandela: Long Walk to Freedom"? "
          No, and I won't watch that propaganda piece. Mandela was a racist communist.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODQ4WiDs...

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          • Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 9 months ago
            Wrong. A bigot is anyone who doesn't accept other classes of people as equals.

            And Ubuntu != Communism.
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            • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 9 months ago
              Wrong and wrong.

              Ubuntu is the very essence of collectivism. I said Mandela was communist, which is merely one form of collectivism. But he openly supported collectivism to his dying day.

              "Full Definition of BIGOT
              : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance "

              "
              bigot
              [big-uht]
              noun
              a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
              "

              "bigot

              noun

              a person who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, opinion, etc.
              a narrow-minded, prejudiced person"

              Three separate online sources for the definition.

              Note that NONE of them say anything about equality or class.

              FYI, "black", "hispanic", "female", "homosexual"... none of these are classes.

              "Full Definition of CLASS
              1
              a : a body of students meeting regularly to study the same subject
              b : the period during which such a body meets
              c : a course of instruction
              d : a body of students or alumni whose year of graduation is the same
              2
              a : a group sharing the same economic or social status <the working class>
              b : social rank; especially : high social rank
              c : high quality : elegance <a hotel with class>
              3
              : a group, set, or kind sharing common attributes: as
              a : a major category in biological taxonomy ranking above the order and below the phylum or division
              b : a collection of adjacent and discrete or continuous values of a random variable
              c : set 21
              4
              : a division or rating based on grade or quality
              5
              : the best of its kind <the class of the league>
              6
              : a data type in object-oriented programming that consists of a group of objects with the same properties and behaviors and that is arranged in a hierarchy with other such data types — compare object "


              Note that 3a refers to a specific rank in the biological hierarchy: phylum, class, order, genus, species. Blacks, hispanics and females are all the same species. Neanderthal is different species, bu same genus.
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              • Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 9 months ago
                "Ubuntu is the very essence of collectivism. I said Mandela was communist, which is merely one form of collectivism. But he openly supported collectivism to his dying day."
                ---
                Collectivism is not Communism. Capitalism involves Collectivism, too. Therefore, if you try to argue that Collectivism is always Communism, then logically you have to say that Capitalism is Communism.
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