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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years, 12 months ago
    Hello AJAshinoff,
    We know how that happened.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHGCz6xx...
    I do not have a problem with tariffs per se. However, might I suggest that in order to avoid some of the objections, perhaps we could do more with our currency exchange rates to counterbalance the overall differences in costs of labor and living when trading with other nations. It seems that there are many poorer nations that have attracted much of our manufacturing which used to support much of the middle class and an overall method of equalizing the playing field may be more efficacious. It is one thing to set up shop in a foreign nation and sell to the natives, but entirely another to export the jobs and sell the product back to Americans while losing those necessary jobs. What do you think?
    Regards,
    O.A.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 12 months ago
      The free market will always produce a better result in the long run for everyone. The problem is that in the short-run it will also cause inequities as the system works through the price/wage supply/demand issues. The problem is that we had relatively closed markets for a long time.

      Even through the mid twentieth century costs of shipping and implementation of capital in other lands made markets relatively local for all but the costliest goods. As shipping costs and capital infrastructure provided more feasible options for international production, the market has begun to readjust to those opportunities. Manipulating currency exchange ratios isn't that answer - that will be done to benefit the few not the many (and frankly is already being done to benefit the few).

      Unfortunately, time is the only mechanism to address this, and we are at the front end of the continuum. Thus, we will continue to suffer while much of the rest of the world catches up. But they are catching up. Relative costs of labor in Mexico, the far east, etc. are beginning to increase and with the costs of transportation, will soon equalize. It will work out that as the living standards in these other countries increases, and subsequently labor rates, production will again become more economical locally.

      Already we are seeing production plants being built in foreign countries not to leverage cheap labor for our consumption, but to overcome tarrifs and shipping costs for their consumption. I think this is generally good for the whole world, though it is painful for us who were on top for the past 50+ years.
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      • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years, 12 months ago
        Hello Robbie53024,
        A well reasoned reply. If all of this is so, I only hope we can survive long enough to recover. It has been (at least in the short term) a devastating arrangement for manufacturing jobs, instituting these trade agreements. They were sold to us a means of opening foreign markets to our goods, but instead in the short term they opened up cheap labor markets and took many of the jobs... Jobs and manufacturing operations that took generations to build. How many generations must suffer while new industries and trade is established in the mean while waiting to recover?
        Regards,
        O.A.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 12 months ago
          The jobs were going to go in any case. That was a consequence of reduced transpo costs.

          The faster we can encourage other countries increase in std of living, the faster we will again become more competitive.

          That said, the Chinese might help this along. They are still communist even if they have embraced some capitalist economics. They are likely to slam shut their markets/borders as their economy falters. They will try to export, but will be stymied by the lack of reciprocity they will offer. Plus, it will provide a convenient reason to renege on the payment of treasuries which will be required to avoid a bankrupt US. That will force manufacturing back to the US for a lot of goods.
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          • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years, 12 months ago
            I hope you are right. China has manipulated their currency and they are my main concern relative to exchange rate. Over the last ten years I have lost a lot of Tool & Die work to the Chinese. Aside from the initial work some of my customers want me to make changes and repairs to crummy Chinese tools... rats n frats n frag alag... Since we are no longer on the gold standard, exchange rates can be used as economic weapons...
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 12 months ago
              Me too!
              China is degrading faster than the US, they are just better at hiding it. But when you see cities built for 300,000 people virtually empty - built merely to keep people working - you know that the end must be near. The balance of trade can only go so far in supporting that type economy, especially with the US taking much of it back in the form of selling Treasuries.
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  • Posted by SRS66East 9 years, 12 months ago
    Lets flush NAFTA, and start producing here again.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 12 months ago
      Wouldn't work. The growth is outside the US. Capital is going to go where it gets the most return, and that isn't here. As those other markets increase their standard of living, and the costs of labor and transportation equalize overall costs, manufacturing will return to the US.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 12 months ago
      All we need is heavy tariffs on all imports to offset the disparity in the cost of incoming goods. The trouble is politicians get fat an wealthy by making "deals" to circumvent those tariffs AND THEN tax us to make up the revenue loss. I think we can live with NAFTA if, and only if, it was made into a more self-interested pact for all parties.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 9 years, 12 months ago
    What I find more interesting than the premise made by the NYT writer is that Canada's middle class has grown faster and is now at the level of US middle class. What has it been in the past decade that has brought this about? Could it be free-market reforms?

    And look at the socialist European countries. They are still significantly below the US middle class.
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