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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years ago
    And this also from Forbes -

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/201...
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    • Posted by Bobhummel 10 years ago
      The IPCC is and has always been a scam run through the UN solely for the purpose of bleeding the productive industrialized western capitalist countries of they well deserved and earned wealth. Using the powerful weapon of guilt, - you are killing our planet - these parasites use an institution we created, the UN, as the blunt weapon to bludgeon us and kill the most successful and economically just socio-economic system ever conceived - CAPITALISM.
      Thanks for posting KH & adding to it Robbie.
      Cheers.
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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
    It can't be science, there's no hockey stick!!!

    I have a serious theory. The article poses the open ended question of "What's happening? We ARE dumping all this carbon and other "greenhouse gasses", but the graph shows :average temps"? He is truly confused. And so are the "Earth first" folks who would cut every humans throat - except for the fact that our bodies would add to global warming.

    So here's my theory - The earth - are you sure you are ready? - The Earth is really, really big.

    http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExp... tells us that the volume of the earth is 1,097,509,500,000,000,000,000 cubic meters AND the Earth weighs 13,227,735,730,800,000,000,000,000 pounds. So class, you see the earth is really big AND it weighs a lot.

    Just one form of carbon - coal - accounts for 850 Giga tons of carbon. Ever since the earth cooled (no matter how you thought that happened) - the earth has been absorbing carbon and turning it into coal. It is what it does.

    I predict that in a few millennia there is going to be a new coal age as the deposits we are making today reach maturity and provide a "new" source of energy for earths inhabitants.

    Think of it like this, we are making energy for our great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grand kids! Keep up the GOOD work!
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years ago
      I get the joy of debunking the hockey stick plot every fall in my freshman Introduction to Chemical Engineering class. That is one day I particularly look forward to.
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      • Posted by plusaf 10 years ago
        Teach 'em about graphing, too... plot 2^n versus n on the right (wrong) scale and you get a wonderful hockey stick. Use the right scales (semilog) and you get a beautiful straight line.

        When I saw Inconvenient Truth for the first time, I looked at that graph and said, "Bullshit: wrong ordinate scale! Designed to mislead!"

        So much for Gore's math ability or lack of it.
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years ago
          I do teach them plotting and curve fitting, but in the follow-up course (Intro to ChE 2). The hockey stick is part of the environmental component of Intro to ChE 1, which focuses mostly on how to design a process to make a product (i.e. process flowsheeting) minus the math. The math starts to come in the 2nd course, and comes in hot and heavy ever after that. It gives me great joy to make Al Gore look like an idiot. Al Gore had as much to do with inventing the Internet as his father did in passing the Civil Rights Amendment. Oh, that's right. His father voted against that bill.
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    • Posted by eimb1999 10 years ago
      That's actually a very good theory. When you think about it, all the stuff we use came from the Earth originally. Other than the few tons of spacecraft that we've sent out of Earth Orbit, where can it all go? Back into the Earth of course! So, we'll eventually find a way to use it again! Your theory makes great points! Obviously something the enviro-wacko leftists refuse to understand.
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      • Posted by plusaf 10 years ago
        Heard a theory some years back that, as the detritus on the oceans' floors get subsumed as the continental plates push under each other, the carbon compounds are heated and compressed and POSSIBLY 'recycled' into crude oil!

        I don't think anyone's proven that it's impossible.
        Ultimate recycling, eh?
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  • Posted by iroseland 10 years ago
    I have spent a lot of time over the years taking time based data and turning it into graphs. Even before I got into n-scale web hosting and managing networks I was doing this to manage blood sugar, weight, income stock picks and gas mileage. Pretty much always, if you have enough data and you graph it patterns will emerge. Climate is interesting but no different. Its more like the Mandelbrot set. If you zoom in on a day or a year the same wave pattern keeps reappearing. If you zoom way out it appears again leading one to wonder just how often and at what levels the wave emerges from the data. while I am no 'climate scientist' I have seen the pattern.
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    • Posted by plusaf 10 years ago
      Hell, I took one look at the Vostok ice core data and realized that, until or unless someone can explain EXACTLY what caused ALL of the prior major Ice Ages, the core data imply that we're heading for another Ice Age in the 'relatively near future'!

      If we're warming the planet with CO2, we may be postponing the next Ice Age for the first time in history! And an Ice Age just might kill more humans and other species than warming! How many billion humans can survive in the 'Tropics', which will become the earth's "Temperate Zone"?
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years ago
      Nice analogy with the Mandelbrot set. I haven't looked at fractals and chaos theory in a while, but you can get chaotic behavior with only two couple ordinary differential equations (ODE's). Climate has many coupled PDE's.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years ago
    This story about the period of no global warming exceeding the period of global warming is appropriate for April Fool's Day.
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    • Posted by 10 years ago
      this is the problem with trying to talk with people who support global warming data. They constantly manipulate the data points. If there in fact has been no measurable warming since around 2000, this does not fit their model. Yet, their data is forever adjusted higher. I'm not sure I follow your point, j.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years ago
        What you said is exactly correct. Global warming is 99.999+% dictated by solar radiation, and well over 99% of the global variation is due to the occurrence of sunspots, which right now are less frequent than normal. All one has to do is an energy balance. Yes, the CO2 levels are higher than they have been in a while, but there was a time in Earth's history that CO2 levels were both MUCH higher and MUCH lower and temperatures were MUCH higher and MUCH lower. Does anyone not enough geologic history to know how prevalent volcanoes were billions of years ago? Much more recently in geologic term, most of the US was covered in a glacier. People fail to see that they are relatively insignificant specks compared to the size of the entire planet.
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years ago
          Regarding the April Fools' comment, global warming is a hoax, and always has been as versatile as a Swiss army knife for the looters. The environmentalists seized upon the control vacuum created by the collapse of the Berlin Wall. An excellent analysis was given on about a 10-page section around p. 500 of the paperback version of Michael Crichton's State of Fear.
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          • Posted by 10 years ago
            I also enjoyed that book. whew. you got me a good one the april fools. You do NOT want to know how many arguments I get into global warming BS with scientists in academia. The power to believe is very strong...
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            • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years ago
              Somehow, I don't have a hard time believing that you would get into many arguments about global warming. I've had a couple with other university's meteorologist myself.
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        • Posted by plusaf 10 years ago
          Um, J... http://spaceweather.com/ ... sunspot minimum passed already and they're on the increase over the past few years of the normal cycle.

          And the 'average temperatures' still aren't close to what the IPCC's models predicted.
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years ago
            Plusaf, you are right we are past the sunspot minimum, but we are still historically on the low side when it comes to sunspots. You are also right that the IPCC models overpredict any temperature change. An excellent discussion of this is on about p. 500 of Michael Crichton's State of Fear, as I said slightly above this in the thread.
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  • Posted by Ranter 10 years ago
    An article in the most recent Scientific American Magazine refers to this period of no global warming as a "faux pause" in the rate of glogal warming.
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    • Posted by 10 years ago
      Scientific American was started to show that you could make money as an independent inventor. It has become a political vehicle for the environmental religion of human haters.
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      • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
        When I was growing up I anticipated each issue and looked forward to going to our local planetarium where old issues were sold to help support the museum. I always spent my months allowance buying issues I didn't own.

        Back then the pages were full of the great works by men and women who had or were soon to be awarded Nobel Prizes for great works of intellect and science.

        A couple years ago as I was traveling I purchased a copy to read in the hotel room. Gone were the pages of great graphics of new inventions, gone were the interstellar photographs taken by patient astronomers on far away mountain tops and gone forever were the great mathematical constructs that inspired my youth. All replaced with hockey stick insanity and propaganda. Very Sad.
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  • Posted by Notperfect 10 years ago
    I assume (they) being the bureaucrats have been calling all of us stupid since grade school. Remember the study of Photosynthesis? Breath in breath out. Plants, trees breath in the Co 2 and produce Oxygen which we survive on. I drive a truck for a living and with the new emissions standards we are using Diesel Exhaust Fluid. More or less Horse Urine. When mixed with the exhaust from the engine it creates minute particles of Co 2. You or I could stand on a ladder at the top of most new trucks and breath what comes out with no harm. One problem though these new engines do not hold up as long. Cat. got out of the business because of the (EPA) regulations. Cummins did okay, but still have problems. Detroit is holding its own, but they have problems also. And B.H.O. swears by his (EPA).
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years ago
    I read until he started talking about the "alarmist global warming establishment". This is just wishful thinking. Maybe one day we'll get surprising new evidence. Until then this reminds me of a smoker I once knew who said "maybe there's an anti-smoking conspiracy tainting the evidence, and smoking really isn't that harmful." As rational people we should know better than come up with thees notions, esp when almost everyone on earth would love them to be true. I evaluate it the same way I evaluate the claim that there are benevolent gods taking care of my friends and relatives who have died. My desire for it to be true makes me want to make up twisted narratives, but as a skeptic I know that and resist the urge.
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  • Posted by g4lt 10 years ago
    Hmm, the period of no climate change coincides with (recent) record highs and lows within a very short time. Sounds like someone fails to understand precisely what is changing. It's not the averages you should be looking at, it's the extremes: they're getting progressively more extreme as time goes on, which is precisely what the greenhouse effect predicts: a loss of moderating weather patterns first, not necessarily a change in median (there's still a change in median, but the noise caused by say the Gulf Stream changing course will drown it out). This simply goes to prove that climate deniers major claim to fame is they dismiss that which they cannot understand. E pur si muove and all that crap.
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    • Posted by jimjamesjames 10 years ago
      Sorry, no. We skeptics dismiss what the AGW Gestapo can't explain and claim it is too "complex" for our little brains. AGW hypothesis: Rising CO2 causes warming. Fact: CO2 is higher than in human history (400ppm); therefore, the earth is warming.

      Problem for us small brained creatures: Despite continually rising CO2 levels, the earth has not warmed for nearly two decades.

      "But, but...." say the AGW Gestapo, "it's because the heat decided to hide in the deep oceans."
      But when we point out record cold, the Polar Vortex (!), the AGW Gestapo says, "That extreme cold is not what global warming is. YOU must take into consideration decadal changes." "But, but," we say, "the last two decades show no warming."

      And the AGW Gestapo say, "But the extreme cold is what proves global warming. " Now, we are supposed to take into consideration extremes??

      First law of economics: Who controls supply controls price. Find something to control with zero value (CO2), create an artificial value (it warms the earth and warming is bad), control it via carbon credits and taxation and bingo, set the price and AlGore gets richer with the Carbon Exchange and thousands of professors of atmospheric science continue to suck at the nipple of government grants.

      My conclusion: The earth is warming, has been for 10,000 years. FACT: Warming causes CO2 to rise, generally, 800 years after the fact. The anthropogenic connection is coincidental, not causative. And, by the way, the greatest advances in improving the quality of human life on earth happened during warming periods.
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      • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years ago
        Heat is a "sign post" of increased activity, higher intelligence, increased technology, industrial activity, social development - in short, life. If the Earth first crowd want a pristine world, untouched by human hand, I'd offer them a one way trip to Uranus.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years ago
          This is a straw man and a false choice. It's a false choice that we must choose between a pristine world and world where we incur huge costs on future generations. It's a straw man to say anyone is aiming for a pristine world or to purposely push huge costs on future generations.
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    • Posted by Ranter 10 years ago
      If you look at the geological record from each of the previous interglacial periods, the present one mirrors closely the temperature patterns of the previous periods, except that each of the previous interglacial periods had a sharp rise in temperatures towards the end of the interglacial period before temperatures plummeted to produce the next glacial period. The spike in temperatures has been preceded typically by increasing instability (extremes of cold and heat). The present interglacial period has lasted longer than most of the previous interglacial periods, and has not had the spike of temperature that is the precursor to the end of the interglacial period. The gulf stream changing course is also a typical precursor to the onset of the next ice age, along with increased melting of the ice in the north polar sea. The only significant differences between the present interglacial period and previous interglacial periods are that it has remained cooler, on the average, than previous interglacial periods, and has lasted longer.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years ago
      I think there is denialism on the issue not b/c people can't understand but because there's no good solution. The scientific case for anthropogenic climate change is solid, but I haven't seen a solid solution.
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