21

Mike Rowe and Ayn Rand

Posted by khalling 8 years, 7 months ago to Philosophy
50 comments | Share | Flag

Author Carrie-Ann Biondi:
"Their names are not often heard in the same sentence, but they should be. Many might not realize how consonant Rowe’s and Rand’s views are, nor the ways in which their approaches to addressing the ills of our time can instruct one another. Most fundamentally, Rand and Rowe understand that reality requires each of us to work for a living, uphold the virtue of productiveness, and appreciate that there is no such thing as “good” or “bad” work, but only honest work done well or poorly."
SOURCE URL: http://andphilosophy.com/2015/08/11/mike-rowe-and-ayn-rand-somebodys-gotta-do-it/


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 7 months ago
    I have always loved Mike Rowe's responses to the questions of our time. He ignores the politics and gets right to the heart of the matter, which usually revolves around the need for hard work and personal accountability. I also loved the story he tells about how he got hired by talking about a pencil for ten minutes. If you haven't read it, it's the attitude of not only someone who wants to find solutions, but an imaginative mind:
    http://americandigest.org/mt-archives...

    I think he'd make a great Secretary of Labor because he'd emphasize the LABOR part!!! (He'd also probably put himself out of a job!)
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by paris1 8 years, 7 months ago
    Mike Rowe: The Eddie Willers of our time?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by Ibecame 8 years, 7 months ago
      Eddie Willers was Dagny's assistant, implementing her decisions. Not a leader or producer. Thus, he was never offered a place in the Gulch. Mike Rowe on the other hand is a demonstrated leader and producer. I feel, that if you were to place him as a character in the Movie or the Book it would be one of the many alluded to characters that were part of the Gulch but not specifically mentioned.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
        I disagree. Rearden's secretary was offered a place in the Gulch. So, why do you think Eddie was not?
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by cranedragon 8 years, 7 months ago
          I have always thought that he would have been offered a place if Dagny/Reardon/Galt/Francisco had thought that he would accept. The last scene between Dagny and Eddie resonates with his love for her and his unwillingness to abandon her railroad to the looters, even if she is walking away.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by Ibecame 8 years, 7 months ago
          In the Book she wasn't and neither was Eddie. Hank told her to "make a run for it" before he leaves to join the strike.

          I would have to go back and review the movie, but I don't believe that was covered in the movie.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by VetteGuy 8 years, 7 months ago
          I thought this was an interesting difference between the book and the movie.

          In the book, the last we see of Eddie, he is laying on the tracks in front of the train in the middle of nowhere, and everyone else goes off with the wagon train. My impression was that he probably died out there.

          In the movie, as they get in the planes after rescuing JG, one of the characters says something to the effect of "you go ahead, we're going to pick up Eddie".

          The movie doesn't spend much time on Eddie, but he always seems to be on the right side of things. In the book, his character is very much like Dagny after crashing in the gulch, convinced that he can, and must, keep the wheels turning against all odds, and against all evidence to the contrary. This belief eventually leads to his demise. Is this a moral for the rest of us?
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by paris1 8 years, 7 months ago
        I see. You obviously have a much better recollection of the nuances of A/S than I. Even though I read just about everything A/R had published when I was in my 20s, I never considered myself a "student" of Objectivism and have preferred to carry the "spirit" of her writings with me through the decades without getting all tangled up in the minutia of her novels.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by Ibecame 8 years, 7 months ago
          Actually, I saw your comment as having the correct idea, just the wrong charater. I suspect my interpretation is because I read the book, only recently and have been "studying" Ayn Rand and Objectivism from her early works to her last.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by paris1 8 years, 7 months ago
            Actually, I'm currently plodding my way through "Atlas Snubbed" by Ken Krawchuk and wishing he would just get to the point! His writing style is reminiscent of A/R, which was charming at first, but somewhat irritating by the middle of the book. Makes me wonder how I would feel about re-reading A/S at age 67!
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by jimjamesjames 8 years, 7 months ago
              In Atlas Snubbed, Krawchuk does blather along quite a bit, but you learn which pages to just turn and get to the action. Otherwise, I really like the story, highly recommend it.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by paris1 8 years, 7 months ago
                Please give me a heads up as to what the point of the book is. I'm about 1/3 through it and wondering if I'm wasting my time. And yes, I am skimming over a lot of the narrative!
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by jimjamesjames 8 years, 7 months ago
                  My take-away is a narrative of what could have happened after AS ended in some places. The events "outside" the Gulch are what I liked, the rebuilding and the institution of common sense "laws" (non laws) and the currency and the "court" system set up in Las Vegas (keeping in mind it takes place in the 1950s). A construct addressed in the story (but not answered, to my mind) is: What about the "victims" of the collapse, those good people who were honest, hardworking, with integrity that were caught in the vacuum between those societies that did rebuild and those in the Gulch.
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by paris1 8 years, 7 months ago
                    I've seen it said elsewhere that it's supposed to be a treatise on the good and the bad of Objectivism vs libertarianism, with the latter coming out the winner. I'm just not seeing the conflict as yet in the storyline, but maybe I need to get further into it.
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
                      it may be that you need to re-read or get the audio of AS. You admitted that it has been a long time. In order to "appreciate" a parody, you first need to have a full grasp on what is being parodied. Most libertarians do not have a full understanding of the important concepts in AS in order to criticize it, IMO
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                      • Posted by paris1 8 years, 7 months ago
                        I gather from what I've seen here that you're the resident Yoda parody?
                        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                        • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
                          that sounds mean. can you give some context to your statement?
                          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                          • Posted by paris1 8 years, 7 months ago
                            Well, your comment sounds a bit condescending. You're assuming I'm a libertarian who doesn't understand AS and you seem to be the object of much adulation on this forum. Sounds kinda Yoda-ish to me!
                            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                            • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
                              nope. 1. you said it had been decades since you read the book.
                              2.You are currently reading a parody and still experiencing frustration
                              3. I do NOT assume you are a libertarian, but the parody is written by one.
                              4. Libertarian philosophers would support an Eddie as saving civilization over "great" men. Eddie is perfectly able to get the locomotive running and there's nothing special about a Dagny. (I have not read it).
                              5. I spend a fair amount of time in here. Yoda is an anti-Objectivist concept. carry on!
                              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
      how so, paris?
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by paris1 8 years, 7 months ago
        The morally incorruptible "everyman"? There may be a better analogy that I'm not thinking of, but it's been 45 years since I read A/S!!
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
          I think there are some problems with that, but I see your point.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by paris1 8 years, 7 months ago
            Care to show me "the error of my ways"?
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
              for one thing, Rowe has struck out on his own and built his own enterprise. Remember Eddie was a loyalist and chose TT over striking out with Dagny. Eddie sees the value of TT and Dagny and a Hank but he is very conventional in many ways. Do the job, do it well and stay there. Rowe is clear that to be successful you look at all jobs, how to do them better, see how things work-in case one day you are asked to be in charge. Eddie got his hands dirty? lol. Rowe represents to me the protagonist in Calmet K, a novel Rand admired. check it out-it's free online
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by jimjamesjames 8 years, 7 months ago
                Again, Atlas Snubbed addresses Eddie's evolution toward most of AR's principles after the fall of society and his rise to competence, in part, I think, because his undeveloped skills and "philosophy" had not been tested. I think he choose loyalty to TT and Dagny because that's where his commitment ended (philosophically). Yet, when give the responsibility to make greater decisions (Las Vegas), his grounding, his principles, his loyalty all rose to the top.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
                  I haven't read that book. I still say that the most important take-away from the last scene with Eddie is that when the motor was going to be stopped, moral and productive people were going to be casualties just like the rest. Galt knew Eddie for years and did not invite him to the Gulch.
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by jimjamesjames 8 years, 7 months ago
                    Galt's decision to invite or not invite Eddie is not addressed directly in Atlas Snubbed but I was left with the impression that it was, more or less, Eddie's decision to stick with TT. I might read that passage in AS in the future to clarify it....
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by Ken_V_K 8 years, 4 months ago
                      Atlas Snubbed author responds:

                      Hi, JimJJ. Eddie's reason for staying behind was stated pretty obviously at the end of Atlas Shrugged: "We can't let it go!" he repeatedly says. So he stays. And in Atlas Snubbed, Eddie says, "You‘re right; it was my choice [to stay behind]... I couldn‘t let it go!" And when Eddie wonders aloud why he was never told about the Gulch, he asks, "How was I to know that another choice existed? You never told me about your valley, never asked me to go with you." But the truth of the matter comes out when Eddie realizes he WAS told: "What do you mean, 'not in so many words?'" That's because no one is directly told about the valley before they're ready to hear it, and Eddie clearly was not ready--he couldn't let it go! According to Galt in Atlas Shrugged, "indifference toward a world which should have been ours was the hardest thing to attain." Eddie never attained it, not in Atlas Shrugged nor in Atlas Snubbed. Although the world literally crumbles to dust all around him, he sticks to his principle to do "whatever is right".
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 7 months ago
    It took me a bit to realize the 'andphilosophy' site was using popular culture as the sounding board for philosophical thought. I'm glad you referenced it. My first encounters with 'Dirty Jobs' placed Mike Rowe as just an entertainer, but later I began to see that maybe he was as much a philosopher. I like his thoughts and the article above pointing out such close matches with AR causes me to like him even more.

    Txs for the post.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 8 years, 7 months ago
    "Rowe’s recommended work ethic involves showing initiative and being industrious, responsible, unpretentious, and friendly." Bravo! The welfare state is creating a society accustomed to and demanding the unearned. A society of increasing numbers of members of this persuasion is destined for failure. Those smart enough to be producers are not dumb enough to be slaves.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 7 months ago
    What is work, anyway? It's from the brain, it's from the muscles, it's the only reason for existence. All animals work in order to survive, man included. It is a fact that seems to eluded the growing number of moochers in the country. There truly is no such thing as a free lunch -- or for that matter, a free anything. Mike knows it. My Dad knew it. I know it.

    It occurs to me that so many sitcoms, articles, and books of late despise work. Men and women who hate their jobs, their bosses, and the people that own their workplace. What is that all about?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 7 months ago
    I've been a huge fan of Mike Rowe since seeing more and more of his 'real self' in social media over the last few years. He's a down-to-earth guy, hard worker, and realizes that hard work is always its own reward.

    He's also the narrative voice on Deadliest Catch if you were not aware, in addition to his on-camera stuff.

    His partnership with Caterpillar is very admirable, he has been an untiring voice for convincing American high school teens that 'going to college' isn't a guarantee of success, if you are not cut out for it. He has been driving home the fact that many skilled trades careers pay much higher than white collar stuff, and may be much more in reach for many people - while also being highly in demand .

    http://www.cat.com/en_US/articles/cus...

    He doesn't just voice the stuff, he raises money for his foundation to provide scholarships to trade schools, spotlights the employers on his TV shows, etc .

    If only other entertainers had anywhere near the same level of commitment, honor, integrity, and the well-being of others that he does.

    What I like best is, it's not giving someone a fish to eat, its teaching them how to fish. I'm sure Ayn Rand would approve.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by dukem 8 years, 7 months ago
    I read AS at age 48 the first time and age 70 the second time. Both instances served to confirm what I was learning. Now I'm 72. I expect that the next time I read it will be soon when it's all over the internet and is called "news."
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo