CSA Veterans Are American Veterans

Posted by SaltyDog 8 years, 9 months ago to History
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With all of the strum und drang going on regarding the Confederate battle flag, demands for the removal of statues and commerative monuments, I thought it appropriate to post this article.
SOURCE URL: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/04/14/confederate-soldiers-are-american-veterans-by-act-of-congress/


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  • Posted by $ PhoenixRising 8 years, 9 months ago
    MikeMarortta: Denial is not becoming. Extracted from PUBLIC LAW 85-426-MAY 23, 1958, the following is provided:
    (3) Section 432 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:
    "(e) For the purpose of this section, and section 433, the term 'veteran' includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term 'active, military or naval service' includes active service in such
    forces." The url to the Public Law is: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-... so it makes no difference whether a person "likes" or "dislikes" that Confederate Soldiers are now U.S. Veterans, it remains a fact that they are. Just for the record the last Confederate soldier died in 1958 -- and he died as a U.S. Veteran.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 9 months ago
    The opportunity to put the past behind us after the Civil war was lost with the assassination of Lincoln. The President had envisioned the Reconstruction as an opportunity to rebuild the southern states and help former slaves bridge the gap to independent employment and property ownership, much like we did in helping Japan and Germany recover from the destruction of WW II. Unfortunately, after Lincoln's passing, the militant abolitionists saw it as an opportunity to punish the southern states, and ran the conquered territory as a police state. At the same time, the former slaves were abandoned, victimized by the "carpetbaggers" (Northern companies hired to handle the economic interests of former slaves).

    Had the post-war efforts played out as Lincoln intended, the issue of resentment toward Washington in the south, and an attachment for the states rights represented by the Confederate flag would have died out long ago. Trying to patch up the feelings of anger and resentment more than a generation after the war was difficult, resulting in awkward gestures honoring Confederate figures.

    My family had four brothers who fought for the Confederacy, one of them riding with Jeb Stuart, but past is past. The 1st amendment was intended to protect speech that is offensive to some (especially when the powerful are offended), so the idea of tearing down all the symbols of the Confederacy because some are offended bothers me, even though I have never displayed any flag but that of the United States.
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    • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 9 months ago
      Piece of family history:

      Big John, my father's grandfather, was a tall man and known to be a good shot. He was too young to have fought in the Confederate Army, but after the war he did his part. He lived in the little town of Waterproof, LA and after the War, the Carpetbaggers came into town. One of them had a strain of 'inferior stock' of horses that he was trying to 'oblige' the townsfolk to buy. Big John told him to desist and when he did not, Big John shot his hat off.

      The Carpetbagger took Big John before the town judge, saying, "This man tried to kill me!" Judge said, "We all know what a good shot Big John is. If he was trying to kill you, you wouldn't be here now. Case dismissed!"

      Jan
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 9 months ago
    It's a shame both sides fought for nothing. Had they had the gift of seeing the future the Union military might well have joined with the CSA military.
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  • Posted by NealS 8 years, 9 months ago
    If we ban all history perhaps we can just repeat it all sooner rather than later. Civil War II, Vietnam II, WWIII (we actually had WWI & II already), Hitler II, Cold War II, Iraq II, Afghanistan II, Iran I, 911 II, etc. We ignore natures messages, like fires and earthquakes, even the big ones. Are we just too ignorant to care, or just not aware of history? We need to keep and teach Confederate history, and perhaps even start telling the truth that the south actually was protesting the high taxes being imposed on them. In reality it was not much different than the American Revolution. I'm still astounded by the numbers that died in the Civil War. Apparently we're more committed to killing our own than we are to killing others. History will actually repeat itself whether we keep it and learn it or not, so really what difference does it make? Eventually man will destroy himself and the earth will just wipe history clean and become green again. If man doesn't destroy himself perhaps nature will.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 9 months ago
    Interesting how history gets warped for either a political agenda or political correctness. Even the portrayal of Lincoln as "The Great Emancipator" is fallacious. The civil war happened. The issue of slavery was a major aspect of it, but should we drop it from the history of the country because it offends some people to see, talk, illustrate, or portray it? Should "Gone With The Wind" be banned? Why must what appears to be a good cause get carried to ridiculous extremes?
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  • Posted by cjferraris 8 years, 9 months ago
    I am surprised how people lose context. We are trying to judge 19th Century events using 21st Century "ethics" and to which I use the term loosely. Granted, in 2015, it's easy for us to condemn the actions of 150+ years ago, but we're in a different country now than then. People stood up for what they believed in more than now. Look at how many people jump on the bandwagon just because TMZ considers something to be fashionable or unfashionable.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 8 years, 9 months ago
    Interesting article and interesting facts. Thanks, I cut and pasted it into a Word document for my own archives. That being as it may, the fact remains: No, they are not.

    They fought for independent states that had withdrawn from the federal union. The first of them fired on a federal fort built to guard their harbor from foreign invasion. Those states formed a different confederation of their own. The very legality of that attempted mass coups d'etats is to be questioned. It is not clear whether a majority in every or any "confederate" state actually supported secession. Here in Texas, the putschists arrested Sam Houston who refused to support secession. Though Houston openly wept when the Texas legislature voted to end the Republic and join the Union, he was opposed to secession. Houston was a man of principle, and he must not have been alone.

    What principle explained the attempted Confederacy?

    Work the equation in the other direction and see if you get the same results. Like this:
    Since the revolt was never legal, the so-called CSA never existed, and all the soldiers and sailors must therefore have all been in the army and navy of the federal Union.

    A third analysis is to reject the appeal to authority. It is true that Congress passed these acts. Are you willing then to endorse everything that Congress does? No. You just point to this one that you like and elevate it to authority for a point you want to make.

    The revolt of the southern secessionists was an anti-industrial reaction. Old times there are best forgotten.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
      By an act of Congress, yes they are.
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      • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 9 months ago
        I'm not sure that treating their graves with respect and priding an equivalent pension (after they were all dead) is the same as saying they were American Veterans.

        It seems the writer is trying to stretch the meanings of the act beyond the language.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
          Actually it was Congress, and not the author, who said that they were American veterans. I don't really know for a fact, but I think the motivation was to help with finally sealing a national breach, as the act was passed some 95 years after the fact. I suspect that the author of the article might be trying to say that we should, as a nation, start moving past the animus. Clearly, it hasn't worked as we can now see four years after the article was written.
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          • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 9 months ago
            I wanted to use this argument in another venue, so I tracked down the referenced legislation. I couldn't honestly claim that Congress in providing veterans benefits to them actually declared that they were American veterans.

            It would seem to me that had Congress actually wanted to declare them as veterans, it would have been at a more general level. At least I didn't feel I could support using this act as proof. The author of the article did, which is why I said I thought he was trying to stretch the meaning.
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            • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
              The word used was "equivalent" in Title 38 of the U.S. code, which I take to mean of an equal stature. Title 38 has to do with veterans benefits (a subject near and dear to my heart!), and inclusion of Confederate veterans was certainly more symbolic than anything, but that was my own reference to trying to heal a rift.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 9 months ago
      I don't think we can read very much into the "legality" of starting a war, beyond concepts such as the Laws of War that pretty much everybody accepts. The "legality" of forming the Confederacy (in the opinion of courts afterwards) was always going to be determined retroactively by the outcome of the war. But its legality at the time, of course, was a matter of opinion.

      I'm sure that the law defining southern veterans as US veterans was enacted so that they could be buried at Arlington (which of course was built in Lee's yard as an act of spite, to literally lay the dead of both sides at his doorstep). I would be surprised if it meant that any of the southern veterans or their families got pensions.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
      I simply stated a fact; whether or not I agree with any act of Congress is completely immaterial. If you choose to ignore actions of Congess, you are effectively in rebellion by definition.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 8 years, 9 months ago
        Nice try, but no, you missed. First of all, I am not at all ignoring an Act of Congress. For instance, I am not withholding the portion of my Income Tax that goes to maintain the graves of CSA soldiers. More to the point, of course, is that We the People have the right and obligation to tell Congress when they are wrong. That being as it may, the salient point here is that you are relying on Acts of Congress to prove that CSA soldiers were American veterans. They are not.

        The Civil War being what it was, I have no problem with honoring the adversary. Have you ever seen Major Dundee? "We're all Americans…. Yeah, that's always been the hell of it…"

        See The Rough Riders here at 2:20 …
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAYbL...

        So, I get that. And it is pretty easy to make the Confederate case that the Constitution was a compact among the States. The Union argument is that the Constitution is a contract between The People and the Federal Government. So, whether a state has the right to secede is an open question because the two premises are the real debate.

        That being as it may, the bottom line is that the South was an agrarian slave-based society attempting to deny and suppress the Industrial Revolution, which had no need for slavery, and every need for the largest possible geographic extent of a constitutional limited federal government.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
          You are, of course, free to believe whatever you like.

          Oh, a special favor if you will. Please stop going back to edit the content of your original post. It's rude.
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          • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 8 years, 9 months ago
            Editing is permitted, I believe, for 15 minutes. I try to be careful about saying what I mean. You might write well from the heart. I do not. I catch typos and adjust nuances as long as I can.
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