Another Point of View

Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 8 months ago to History
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When Lincoln was asked why he didn't just let the South go, he said, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" In order to stave off financial ruin, Lincoln waged war on the South. Not for any idealism on his part.

None of the flags of the Confederacy flew over a slave ship, nor did the South own or operate slave ships. It was the English, Dutch, and Portuguese who bought and transported slaves to this country, and so did Northern ships. The problem is that the Confederate battle flag was used by such despicable organizations as the Ku Klux Klan and the Aryan Nation. And just a reminder to those who misguidedly want to blame everyone but themselves, Democrats passed the discriminatory Jim Crow laws, Democrats fought against anti-lynching laws, Democrats wanted to expand slavery and Democrats fought against anti-discrimination laws and stood on school steps to block black children from entering, while Republicans fought against it.


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  • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 8 months ago
    You know that some 150 years ago, the states of this union had a war--and killed on both sides, some 600,000 men out of a country that counted only some 30million souls and crippled countless more. The winning side, the Federalist then went on over the next several years to make sure that the states all understood the power and authority of the central government, even unseating elected legislators in mass and elected governors, and replacing them with their own people in a process called reformation.

    Although it can be argued that the biggest influence on beginning the Revolution was Massachusetts Northerners, Adams, Hancock, Revere etc, it is also true that the Father's of the country were Virginians. Washington, Jefferson, Madison etc. The pride and independence and intellect that drove the idea of the union of independent states through the 1830's can be traced through those men from the South. The combination of the Federalists and the Puritan background of the Northerners, both righteous and authoritarian resulted in a good deal of envy, distrust, and real hate between the two factions. The Federalists composed of the financial centers, the manufacturers, and the shipping and transportation concerns desired more influence and control over the raw material producers, and the Puritan and religious of the North wanted to impose their equality of race ideas on what they saw as the evil of slavery. The Southerners wanted their independence and self determination. We're still arguing over those same issues today, 150 yrs later.

    The battle lines today are being drawn along somewhat similar lines of individual self determination vs central control issues. But the same arguments are being used, only the words and descriptive phrases have changed. From slavery to inequality of outcomes with the addition of many more victims than just blacks--latinos, women, LGBTs, and poor by choice. But the goals are the same, nearly identical in fact--but applied to actual individuals instead of individual states.

    The Rebel flag above all, represents extreme individualism and such things can't be allowed to exist, any more than baking a cake on your own terms, or doing what you want on and with your own property (including your body, the raising of your child, and contents and workings of your mind), or privacy, and freedom to access the natural resources of the land.

    Central authority and the collective will use whatever comes to attention--9 black deaths in a black church, killings in schools, terrorists attacks, differences in what's earned or owned, social recognition, envy whether real or invented, and even human vs virgin nature. This has nothing to do with Republican vs Democrat or slavery 150 yrs ago. It's a battle that's been fought since the inception of this country and its not against some nebulous group--its our neighbors, our friends, even our families.

    Its a laziness of and lack of mental and intellectual effort vs. the willingness, even desire and determination to utilize the two things that all men are born with--their minds and pride in self.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 8 years, 8 months ago
    First, the quotation from Lincoln is unsubstantiated, largely regarded as urban legend. (See Snopes discussion here: http://civilwartalk.com/threads/quest...

    Also, Article I Section 9 of the Constitution foreshadowed the eventual prohibition of slavery by allowing it unimpeded until 1808.
    "The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person."

    In fact, Congress passed such a law on March 2, 1807, giving the slave trade nine months. (See "Abolition" New York Public Library here:http://abolition.nypl.org/essays/us_c...

    Great Britain also banned the slave trade in 1807. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_T...)

    1814: The Netherlands outlaws slave trade.
    1815: British pay Portugal £750,000 to cease their trade north of the Equator.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboliti...

    It is true that the Democrats as late as the New Deal had no problem accepting the support of their southern comrades. However, pushing from the left, progressives managed to oust the "Dixiecrats" in 1948. The Republicans, meanwhile, had slackened, and intellectually, not even Ayn Rand, Isabel Paterson, or Rose Lane Wilder argued the cause of legal equality regardless of prior slavery. Rand's famous essay on "Racism" dates to 1963 -- and was largely ignored by the political conservatives of that time. (It was accepted by those who would become "libertarians.")

    And, it is true, as you noted, that it was (Republican) President Eisenhower who federalized the national guards and forced the integration of public schools, over the resistance of Democratic officials in the South, in Little Rock in 1957.

    The Confederate battle flag represents treason against the federal union. You can quote the Declaration of Independence all you want but the fact remains. I have worked for the Texas Department of Public Safety and I am in the Texas State Guard. Neither organization tolerates any of their members also being members of any radical, reactionary, or secessionist cause.

    While we all can construct our own "long train of abuses" the only possible, lasting change in the tenor of our governments (federal, state, and local) can come only from a philosophical change in our common culture. The best constitution you can devise cannot prevent the growth of government. (See here: http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/20...
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    • Posted by 8 years, 8 months ago
      One of the best things about the Gulch is its ability to teach. I sent out information that I skimmed and got a history lesson in depth. While I'm somewhat chagrined at my inaccuracies, you made it worth my while.

      You know, it is so easy to get either agreement or silence when I put out a diatribe, but, I can't get away with it in the Gulch.
      Thanks, Mike for taking the time.
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