GM Cronies Take Bailout And Sell Out To China

Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 10 years, 2 months ago to Business
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So this is what you get for your tax dollars. I am not for protectionism only fair and free trade. This is neither. This is crony capitalism and we are getting reamed. If this is all true and I have no reason to believe otherwise, we had all better start to learn Mandarin and how to bow, or I mean bend over. We have been sold down the Yangtze!
SOURCE URL: http://www.youtube.com/embed/Lvl5Gan69Wo


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  • Posted by $ WillH 10 years, 2 months ago
    Oh yeah. We have been totally sold down the river. GM started this crap with their "captured imports" program, to the extent that they even built the first Toyota plant here in the US to produce the Toyota Corolla/Geo Prism. It was a stupid and short sighted idea that would have caught up to them if they had not been bailed out with OUR FREAKING MONEY. Now, as usual, we are taking the screwing. The market share they continue to loose will continue to support foreign owned car companies.

    My only hope in this is Ford. I really liked the way they handed the bailout. They have not made many vehicles I would want, but that is beginning to change with the new "looks like an Aston Martin" Fusion. That is a good looking car.
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    • Posted by $ Susanne 10 years, 2 months ago
      All automakers have a foreign presence; I like Ford where that presence stems from *here*, not China or Europe. Plus they didn't put their hand out for the bailout the dotgov was trying to make all 3 take - GM & Mopar stuck their hand out, Ford said No Thank You. Made me a believer iin the blue oval ever since.
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      • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
        Yes! A company should stand on its own and get private funding. I like Ford's management... their business model and hope they destroy the competition. How the government can justify their actions in the eyes of anyone except the unions is a mystery. The unions have too much power. I know they influenced this and in the end they may yet see the folly of their ways as their jobs disappear. Just reward I would say...
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        • Posted by $ Susanne 10 years, 2 months ago
          I'll give you one better - the Unionization of Ford, which was spearheaded by the Communist Party in the late 30's and early 40's, a fact they (the communists) are rather quite proud of...

          http://speakout-now.org/the-strike-at-ri...
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          • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
            Workers of the World Unite! Everyone that reads this thread should check out this article. It only ends when there is nothing left...
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            • Posted by $ Susanne 10 years, 2 months ago
              Look at the GE bulb plant (http://wkbn.com/2014/01/24/lamp-plant-go...)... the company's proposal (that was the best they could do for the plant) was put to the almighty union - had it passed, they would still be in business, but being voted down (by 6 votes), GE could no longer afford keep the doors open. The workers, in esence, fired themselves by trying to show the company who was boss... well, they found out the cold reality that if you don't have a head for upper management, maybe you shouldn't be making decisions for those who do.

              So maybe therein lies the answer - people want to work? Get rid of the unions that end up costing jobs. Because when you get greedy, want more than the farmer can produce, don't be surprised when the trough you're being slopped at goes empty, and there's no more slop. Ever.
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              • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
                A vast amount of manufacturing jobs have been turned out by these activities and government policies. For quite a while the Unions because of political clout, media attention and shutdown threats have been able to preserve assembly plant jobs, but even those jobs are endangered now. If trade policies aren't fair not just "free" and Unions aren't responsible in the face of economic realities more of this is sure to come.
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      • Posted by dcwilcox 10 years, 2 months ago
        I have just about always bought US Cars since my first car, a '51 Ford, in 1960. I had a Cadillac in my garage from 1977 to 2010. Since 2010 there has been a Lincoln MKZ parked there. I will never buy another GM car because of their crony capitalism practices.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
      Hear Hear! I have never been a Ford guy, but that may very well change the next time I need to shop for a vehicle. We can use the market to positive effect against GM, but what can/will we do about the political cronies, whose policies and corruption make this happen?
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      • Posted by $ WillH 10 years, 2 months ago
        Vote against them, use our voices to cause others to vote against them, participate in marches and protests, and finally shrug and let it fall. That's all we can do imo.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 2 months ago
    Basic economics. Money flows downhill to the least expensive way to produce a given quality. That is why government should NEVER interfere by "helping" any industry survive. If, as in the case of GM, it keeps some workers employed, it only delays the inevitable as those workers lose out to China, or wherever. If GM and Chrysler couldn't succeed on their own, then they should have been allowed to fail. However, that doesn't get you any votes from the low information voters.
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  • Posted by hamiltonh 10 years, 2 months ago
    I highly recommend the book "American Icon". It chronicles Ford's comeback including the bailout fiascos, union negotiations, securing financing that allowed them to survive the recession, and Alan Mulally's (CEO) management that drove a global culture change throughout the company. One of my favorite lines was a letter written to Ford - I just purchased a Chrysler but when I heard about the bailouts I was so disgusted, I turned around and traded it in for a Ford (paraphrased).
    The book definitely made me a Ford convert.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 2 months ago
    Actually, this is Fair and Free Trade. GM is doing exactly what you and I and everyone else would be doing under the circumstances. The fault is not in the company, but in our stupid and criminal government that has set up rules that lead to failure of the economy.

    As an owner of GM, or any other company big enough to deal with China, would you not want to escape the problems created by our government:
    UAW, AFL-CIO, EPA, ADA, OSHA, minimum wage, IRS and American workers' laziness and propensity to sue?
    Would you not take advantage of China's much more capitalist laws and healthier work attitude than in America?

    Do we buy American made products (which are awfully difficult to find nowadays) at any cost vs cheaper and often better imported products? In the 19th Century and for the first half of the 20th, America was the greatest economic and cultural power in the world precisely because it did not have the evils that I listed above; today China is fast becoming the greatest economic and, perhaps cultural giant precisely for the same reasons. The more we kill freedom and opportunity, the lazier and uneducated we become, the more we become a hand to mouth government handout society, the quicker we solidify our future as a Third World welfare nation. So, don't blame GM.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
      Hello strugatsky,
      I understand and blame the bulk of the problem on our government policies. As I replied to TexanSolar; We are dealing with unfair trade practices (product dumping, currency manipulation, etc.) and our government could impose tariffs or adjust our exchange rates in a tit for tat way, but they prefer to see our technology and jobs be exploited... I am all for free trade when it is also fair. Protectionism is what they are practicing against us.
      Respectfully,
      O.A.
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  • Posted by TexanSolar 10 years, 2 months ago
    Capitalism that is manipulated and controlled by evil tyrannical governments, ours included, is not capitalism at all. It is crony capitalism.
    There is no such thing as free trade. The playing field is not level.
    The noble experiment that was a representative republic has failed. The representatives no longer represent the people.
    We have the best government money can buy.
    America, that used to be a melting pot, has become a boiling pot and the scum has risen to the top.

    Objective Analist I agree with you

    Are you on Linkdin? I'd love to connect with you.

    my e-mail address is bradford.snipes@yahoo.com
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    • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
      Hello TexanSolar,
      Quite right. We are dealing with unfair trade practices (product dumping, currency manipulation, etc.) and our government could impose tariffs or adjust our exchange rates in a tit for tat way, but they prefer to see our technology and jobs be exploited... I am all for free trade when it is also fair. Protectionism is what they are practicing against us.

      I am not on Linkdin. I run a tight high tech CNC tool& die shop that produces mostly injection molds for the investment casting industry as well as some prototype plastic molds. We also produce an occasional master pattern for Sand casting work.
      You may contact me with a PM and discuss your interests and if I find I can aid you and have interest, I will provide contact information.
      Regards,
      O.A.
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  • Posted by Ranter 10 years, 2 months ago
    The Toyota Camry is the most American car made. Toyota USA is an American company owned in part by Toyota of Japan and in part by stockholders in the USA. The Camry was created for the American market originally. Japan moved all production of the Camry to the US and now, it is the only car made in America from parts made exclusively in America. It is more American than any Chevrolet or Ford. Of course, Chrysler is no longer an American company, being foreign owned and operated.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
      Hello Ranter,
      Very interesting... Isn't that sad? In some ways it shows what could be done and isn't... One question: Where is the engineering being done? Much money is still made via intellectual input.
      Respectfully,
      O.A.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 2 months ago
    I remember when Chrysler was bailed out, and they went and cut a deal with Mitsubishi of all companies to put Mitsubishi motors in Chrysler cars. I refused to even consider a Chrysler after that.
    I must be the last man in America to remember who Mitsubishi was.

    http://www.amazon.com/God-My-Co-Pilot-In...
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    • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
      I remember... they manufactured the zeros that attacked Pearl and brought us into WW2. After the war we helped reconstruct an economy and a nation that would then pose an economic threat and practice unfair trade.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 2 months ago
    I am all for protectionism, if defined correctly.
    What our country has done for decades now is leave American business exposed to battle concerted efforts of coalitions of foreign governments working with their business to overwhelm our markets.
    http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/hvic.html...

    Japan, Inc, for example, would subsidize the companies in a given industry so they could operate at a loss, and thereby undercut the unprotected American industry.

    So I'm all for free trade with countries who leave their businesses as exposed as we do. But, for every other country... it's economic war.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
      Indeed. The flat screen technology you are probably viewing right now was created here in the states. Toshiba of Japan subsidized their own production of them with profits from other products so they could dump their screens below cost on the market and drive all of the U.S. manufacturers out of the business, thereby creating a monopoly to exploit. The Chinese trade practices are no better and our government does little to nothing...
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      • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 2 months ago
        If someone is dumping products below their cost, as a smart capitalist, you should be pocketing the savings and investing them elsewhere. The emphasis here is on investing. You will end up richer, smarter, more technologically advanced and in a better position to compete than the one doing the dumping, who will eventually run himself into the ground. Of course, if instead of investing, the savings are spent on welfare and on indoctrinating people in how not to work, then you get exactly what we now have. So, do you blame Japan or China, or is the blame misplaced?
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        • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 2 months ago
          Explain to me how a government with the power to tax is going to run itself into the ground before independent businesses are replaced by foreign ones?

          Exactly how is Ford, GM, Chrysler going to "pocket the savings" of Americans buying cheap ass Japanese cars, because they can be made and shipped over here cheaper than our auto industry can manufacture them, ,because their government is subsidizing the cost through taxation?


          The blame is not misplaced. I blame Japan, Inc.
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          • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 2 months ago
            What I meant was that if Japan, Inc, wants to subsidize its products with billions of Japanese tax payer money in order to sell them below production costs in the US, we should take advantage of it. That is, if we were to invest the savings into industry, instead of squandering it on welfare. It's like playing chess - you can play well and proper, or if you know your opponent's weaknesses, can take a chance that your opponent will not recognize a technical mistake that you are making on purpose and then take advantage of his miss. Same here, they banked that the US will squander the savings, which is exactly what we did. So, do you still blame Japan, Inc, or do you blame our stupid government and our stupid citizens for squandering trillions and losing the technological edge at the same time?

            Milton Freedman's "Free to Choose" is an excellent series - highly recommend watching it. He explains this issue much better that I.
            http://freetochoose.tv/ I recommend the original 1980's version.
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            • Posted by strugatsky 10 years, 2 months ago
              To add to the above, the bailout was a complete disaster, but you knew that. It's purpose was to take your money and make the unions stronger, while funneling a large parts into personal pockets. It was wrong on every level and in every area and only our national stupidity could have allowed it. The results we predetermined - no one of any intelligence should be surprised.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
          strugatsky,
          I blame our government trade policies and the misguided notion that we can share the wealth with the entire world by turning a blind eye to intellectual property theft, currency manipulation, and protectionism of foreign governments being used against us, while our government does nothing. All the while we lose. Of course when you compound the loss of good paying jobs and an influx of cheap goods the consumer aids also... many have no choice and as you are aware American made products are becoming more difficult to come by...
          O.A.
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 2 months ago
    Marxist politicians, bankers, and crooked businessmen - an unholy alliance. How will we fight them?
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    • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
      That is the 64 thousand dollar question. The government has the legitimate use of force and is in bed with the enemy... On one hand they are trying to disarm us while they re-educate us with their propaganda... We may end up marching on Washington with pitchforks and torches... not very effective, just the way they want it...
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      • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 2 months ago
        Really OA I have one last two-thousand mile drive in my old body. What day shall we assemble in D.C.?
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        • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
          Yes, We need a movement! We need to flush those turds! I can't believe that people aren't organizing. Pass this video around to everyone you believe receptive. Send it to the few honest politicians you know of. That should be a shorter list. If any rally is to have any notice it will have to be large. I am not a TEA party member but I know of a few. I am going to forward it to them also.
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  • Posted by mminnick 10 years, 2 months ago
    I would say that most of the information was correct. There are a few caveats. Many of the automobiles and supporting parts for them have been made in Canada and Mexico since the Clinton era. Even prior to that. For many many years American cars have been assembled here but most of the parts made elsewhere.
    The fact that 70% of the cars are made outside the US is not all that surprising to me. Given the market in China (rather the reputed market, who really knows) to a multinational it would make sense to move the production to where the demand is.
    The time to really get worried is when they ship cars from China to here. Something similar happen to Toyota (might have the company wrong but it was Japanese). All of the Camrey model cars are now built here and shipped back to Japan. (This may no longer be true, my data is a little old). Cost them jobs on the Home Islands.
    anyway, the situation is bad enough that we should start asking for a larger portion of the debt they owe to be repaided, like now.
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