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Is there anywhere or anyone who is actually building a gulch of Intellectual minded individuals.

Posted by buffyirwin 8 years, 10 months ago to Philosophy
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I want in. many Northern Ontario properties I have scoped out that could easily be partially off grid and out of Human de-evolutions way.


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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 10 months ago
    The problem is that if you put a bunch of capable people together we will produce stuff.

    Then the looters will come to take "their fair share". Any attempt to have a Gulch requires legal isolation from governments.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
      Designer inventor here and have a ready for market safety device for cranes that will be requiring employees factory admin,. couple of near ghost towns that would work well employing only 120 = mensa employees with ideas that we can develop and create and grow the society. high I,Q boy meets high IQ girl and the battle against social de-evolution begins.
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      • Posted by $ root1657 8 years, 10 months ago
        Can I get dibs on being the IT department for that place? If you are going to have 120 people, then IT really would be a one man job, and once its set, I'll be honest, not a full time effort, which is why IT is so often salaried rather than hourly.... on the up side, when something really does break, you get to work us to the bone fixing it without a drop of overtime.
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    • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 10 months ago
      Need a force field? Any one see the 'TED' talk with a presenter as a hologram that had substance. One that fooled the introductory hand shaker. I say...it we can create that! We can create a force field...
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      • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 10 months ago
        The Gulch did not have a force field, but it did have a good optical illusion hiding it -- and I agree that a hologram might do the trick. Of course, if we got anybody mad enough at us, I don't think a hologram would fool night vision scopes.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
      Where are the looters coming from and how are they gonna loot anything from a culture that is intellectually better wiser and more prepared. Better armed should also be in there.but in Canada we if we take control of a town can set up our own police force with all of us if we want hired to be the police. all legal and even partially funded by the province.
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      • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years, 10 months ago
        If you are in the United States, the federal government can bring almost unlimited force against you to enforce taxation and regulation. You cannot possible have a town with enough resources to stop them.

        I'm not as sure about Canada, but they probably would be just as aggressive -- someone has to pay for their healthcare system.

        A government sees few threats greater than one that limits their ability to tax their people. Even George Washington led troops against Americans in the Whisky Rebellion.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
    I think hiding in plain sight is the best option at this point. NSA spying and satellite observation really makes keeping something secret like a gulch is just impractical. BUT, like minded people can choose to trade and associate with each other quietly and make their own virtual gulch.
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    • Posted by handyman 8 years, 10 months ago
      Agreed. A good way to get from here to there is for each of us to spend some significant portion of our time creating, nurturing and growing local Objectivist networks. Ways to do that (and what doesn't work) might make for a good topic.
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
        Absolutely. A network of people with various skills will be very handy. We can also trade in gold or silver coins or whatever we want, so long as we do it quietly and hide in plain sight
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        • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
          why keep it quite Bit coin is part of the revolution and it's doing fine. Not my thing gold silver backed is my preference but it's already been done and they can't stop it. Don't you see they act like they have all this power IT'S AN ILLUSION. They can't exercise it even if they want too if the group is large enough and not a bunch of ying yang religious fanatics.
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    • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 10 months ago
      Exactly. It's happening now, and not just in the underground economy. The Gulch does not need to be a confined physical space. It is virtually wherever you are, connected by our shared values, thanks to the Internet.

      If the whole world crashes, no place will be secure, survivalist techniques notwithstanding. Better to work within the system to spread rational values and prevent the collapse.
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
        I dont think the whole world will collapse all at once. Its going to go as in Venezuela, with more and more government controls trying to prop up the existing government for another day. I dont thing, however, that spreading rational values will do much until the populace sees a pretty good collapse. Look at Venezuela now- I am amazed that Maduro isnt just summarily killed and his henchmen strung up. BUT, the people arent THERE yet. Imagine how long it would go on here with people still believing in government like they do.
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      • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
        don't know about you but my daughter is dating a ignorant highschool only hockey player. this is going to help the gene pool NOT. A species evolves by the reproduction between two mates at the top of the gene pool not a mix and match (watch Idiocracy) We need a community where the children would find others from outside that community too far below them to be attracted and special exeptions would be the ones who should be there anyway (ie ppl they meet in University)
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        • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 10 months ago
          Beg to differ. Females are attracted to physical prowess, athletes, sports stars, musclemen, rock stars -- it's a built-in instinct for mate selection of alpha males. Intellectual prowess can be found even among physical weaklings but seldom trumps the hunks.

          The top of the gene pool needs both physical excellence and mental brilliance. King Solomon allegedly had 1000 baby mamas, spreading his superior genes throughout the tribe. If you want eugenic improvement of the species by exercising genetic engineering, you still have to get over the hurdle of love, which knows better than arrogant humans whom to select as a mate; i.e., whose genes to vote for for propagation.

          Make no mistake: it is the females who select which male may inject. Regimenting this by government edict, mandating sterilization of those judged inferior and enforced mating between University denizens as though they were farm animals is a prescription for tyranny of the worst kind. Not the sort of community I'd care to join.
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          • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
            A Grey back Gorrella is physically stronger and more athletic than almost all men so are you telling me that the Hot smart girls are wanting The Great Ape over the 6'2" male with a 160 IQ. because what I am talking about would be about the same analogy. Don't get me wrong I have done some Hot Barbie's with Helium for brains myself but never ever have I thought of a relationship with one.
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            • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 9 months ago
              Non sequitur. Besides, the selection instinct blocks inter-species attraction. This aversion program unfortunately kicks in not just for mating but also for differences of culture, skin color, political opinion and other variations (like which end of an egg to open) and leads to prejudice, bigotry, hate, feuds, demonization and wars.

              You've "done some Hot Barbie's" and don't call that a relationship? Even one-night stands are relationships if you have relations, no matter how brief, for your personal use and pleasure. By the way, how did helium brains serve your self-respect?
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    • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
      You have the Idea!!! A place where my children have no choice but to learn because of their environment and they will be in close contact with similar young adults that come from an intellectual framework with drive and determination and the procreation process switches back to an evolution instead of a de-evolutionary culture who's population is only increased by the welfare moms with no education drive or Intellectual prowess.
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  • Posted by SaltyDog 8 years, 10 months ago
    I've got a motor coach and would love to become a road gypsy. It's not completely, but it's as close as I can get. At least for now.
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    • Posted by SaltyDog 8 years, 10 months ago
      That should have read, "It's not completely off the grid, but it's as close as I can get."
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      • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
        yes still need phone and internet can still have access to government Funded libraries and post. Don't know about you but I haven't the funds or a relationship with Tesla to build a complete society from scratch and shield it in a force field. but I can build a small industrialized place were conversation is at a higher level and the company can be controlled so the moron factor (Idiocrasy) can't interfere.
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      • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
        As close as I would wanna get. a Intellectual community can't stay on top without internet information News of surrounding area. This is an advanced society I am talking about building not a Mennonite homestead.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 10 months ago
      I had an uncle who did that. But if anything it makes you *more* dependent on outside civilization -- unless you want to take all your money along in cash and hope you don't get robbed, by police or anyone else.
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      • Posted by SaltyDog 8 years, 10 months ago
        How would that make me 'more' dependent? No one pays you with cash any more. Even your SS check has to go to the bank. Hence the caveat, "as close as I can get".
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  • Posted by BP1284 8 years, 10 months ago
    I agree with the concept of hiding in plain sight. We can retreat to here to have reasonable discussions, lift each other up and be renewed in knowing we are not alone.
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 10 months ago
    The only way the "gulch" can exist is for its location and purpose to remain a secret from the looters. Membership must be by invitation only. If you deserve to be a member they will find you.
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    • Posted by H6163741 8 years, 10 months ago
      If you recall, Galt's speech included a general invitation to draw a dollar sign on your door if you wanted join the strikers. In the real world, it would take an army to locate and indivually invite each producer.
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      • Posted by blackswan 8 years, 10 months ago
        If you put one penny on the first square of a chessboard, two pennies on the second square, 4 pennies on the third square, and so on, you would have over 9 quadrillion pennies on the 64th square. An army isn't needed; just a commitment for each invitee to bring in at least 2 worthies.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
          $184,467,440,737,095,517.00 That's before you paid taxes and explained the excess over $10,000.

          I may have done 65. But the you would need the excess for the trucks and tires.

          Pennies used to be the only non-legal tender now it's cash, clads, and checks. clads meaning tokens. The dollars worth close to a minus percentage of 1933 value if not over. Coins haven't been minuted since 1965 only tokens, Checks aren't made with a long enough space but but but you could just put it on your debit card. - no wheel barrow needed.

          Maybe next year.

          The value is the ability to set up the problem and see it through to the right hand side equal and then, only then divide by 100.

          Cheers! That shook the cobwebs.
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
        Without a broad based intellectual shift in thinking among the general populace, a revolution away from socialism is not likely. For us who are alive now, its just not going to happen. We have to exist quietly within the system, having as little to do with it as possible, and with maximum protections from it. That means hiding in plain sight and quietly. Let the system collapse and THEN let your boat float in when the tide is coming in. Now, we are fighting the tide of socialism sweeping this country (and others)
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  • Posted by BrettRocketSci 8 years, 9 months ago
    Great question and thread here! Nobody has mentioned the book"Atlas Snubbed." If you want a very realistic and gripping account of how things could shake out in the US (small Gulch communities forming) and also a fascinating, stimulating sequel to Atlas Shrugged, I heartily recommend it. Anyone else read it here?
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  • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
    I can't help but notice that most of the posts on here are a bit more paranoia that someone's after you than a solution base. If you build it they will come is what I'm gonna go with found three sites. Two are just a matter of buying up all the pre existing infrastructure ridding town of current city officials,(easy in democratic society Read "Socrates weeps as Plato Grins" Use new currency for everyday life (Beats taxman) run self sufficient society with exports outside community paying for imports( run like federal gov should but everyone involved. Better schools. the ppl there should be well equipped to advance our genetically superior children. This is not only possible it's not that difficult.
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  • Posted by deanhcross 8 years, 10 months ago
    New Hampshire is looking good...
    https://freestateproject.org/about/101-r...
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    • Posted by VetteGuy 8 years, 10 months ago
      I had heard a couple of years ago that there was a move to get as many libertarian-type people as possible to move to New Hampshire, and basically take over the government by voting in like-minded politicians. Although Libertarian is not synonymous with Objectivist, there is a lot of common ground. Unfortunately I REALLY don't like cold weather. It's beautiful up that way in the summer, though, and of course the fall.
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    • Posted by xthinker88 8 years, 10 months ago
      I just spent most of the week at the porcupine festival run by the free state project in NH. Interesting place. Beautiful state - at least the northern part. Although it is surrounded by soviet socialist republics.
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  • Posted by jsw225 8 years, 10 months ago
    The best thing the fictional gulch had going for it was that no body could find it, accidental or otherwise. That would be impossible in today's world.

    So I think the best place to build would be on Mars.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 8 years, 10 months ago
    Buy an island, Earth boring equipment delivered by Q-Ship at night. Excavate living area's below the surface. Bore out subsea entrances. Foam line all subterranian tunnels and living areas. Then remove all surface habitation replant surface vegetation. Light reflecting tubes from surface to under ground. Surface water collection to subsurface cisterns. Numerous small ore smelters with exhausts cooled by seawater then pumped through subsea piping miles away from the island. Power from tidal turbines. International sale products delivered to the Q Ship via minisubs at night. All o/s market transactions will be done in gold and uncut gemstones. Gold remelted into Galts Gulch coinage or into other non traceable bullion. All inhabitants will be armed(concealed carry) as a precaution. Food stores, Labs, mechanical shops will all be subterranean. Inhabitants will be allow up to the surface. when spy satelites are not overhead. Internet through scrambled signal through private satelite for news and entertainment fromthe outside world.
    There you have my idea of an island Gulch.
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  • Posted by waytodude 8 years, 10 months ago
    Northern Missouri is as far north as I wish to handle long cold winters. Made my own Gulch don't think I'll move now I'm established and ready if there is a collapse if not I'm happy on my little ranch.
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  • Posted by jimslag 8 years, 10 months ago
    Not sure about Northern Ontario. It is remote but I left Wisconsin because I was sick of the snow and cold. My parents moved to Belize last year and even with some of the rules (like guns), it seems to be a pretty much, hands off government. Not sure but you can still buy a chunk of property pretty cheap. Of course same goes for Mexico as long as you are away from the border, someplace like the Yucatan Peninsula. Lots of rules though and they don't like guns, or at least, you cannot bring them into the country unless you work for a drug cartel. No matter where you go though, one government or another will butt their heads in and make things the way they want them or tax the heck out of you.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
      So you don't agree with the global warming theory. that's your choice but I have research the He(( out of it and found that it is a global trend that has existed since God knows when. Greenland was called Greenland by Eric because it was Green ,Vineland(labourador had the best wine grapes and Englands were pretty good as well. North American Tribes in US mid west all Migrated north and south because of heat and drought. Nothing I would look at south of 45. Nova scotia Newfoundland are both options as well. Canadian Taxation is Crap but an organized community can take advantage of the good and eliminate the bad if properly orchestrated.
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      • Posted by jimslag 8 years, 10 months ago
        Not only no but heck no. I still have plenty of relatives up there in Wisconsin and they have had the 2 coldest winters in their memory the last 2 years. Most snow since the blizzard of 63 they told me ( I was 4 back then). So NO!! Of course I remember in the 80's, when I was in the Navy, we were planning for the next ice age and it was being touted in magazines like Time and Newsday that you were to prepare for the coming glaciers and year round snows. So I believe the current prognosticators with the same grains of salt that I used back then, only this time, Super Al Gore got the left fired up with his rhetoric and they believe the world is ending if we don't change our ways. Of course it will cost millions, no billions of your tax dollars to change it and it is all going to Al or some other lefty.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
          You need to research this from ancient materials that the propaganda machine AKA Agenda 21 people haven't touched. Follow the wine grape growing and human migration. Wine grapes seem to be the best preserved and most ancient records ever kept lol. The data is pretty undisputable and the reason we have gotten hit with these winters is because the artic has had warm winters and their weather stream has tracked way down. I don't post what I think unless I have researched something and I never take someone elses word until I have background them thoroughly. Believe what you like, that's the whole point, If through my research I am correct then I should keep the crops and food without having to support the non believers and let them go without. Randianism at its best.
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          • Posted by jimslag 8 years, 10 months ago
            OK, so in ancient times things were that way. How long ago was that? Thousands of years? Even Hundreds of years? Not years or even decades ago, so why is it magically going to change within your lifetime or mine? The cycle of the earth is measured in eons or centuries, not decades or years. Yes, things are changing but it is not like Al Gore is an expert in the earth's cycles. I mean back in the 80's they were touting the next ice age, now, a short 30 years later, we are going to have grapes growing in the Arctic regions. Sorry, but do you know what permafrost is? If we go hot, Alaska will be nothing but a big swamp along with most of northern Canada.
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            • Posted by 8 years, 10 months ago
              every 1200 years and it is somewhat gradual ,quick swings centuries long bubbles big swing we are in the same swing period that erik discovered Greenland . WIKI From 986 CE, Greenland's west coast was settled by Icelanders and Norwegians, through a contingent of 14 boats led by Erik the Red. These settlers formed three settlements—known as the Eastern Settlement, the Western Settlement and Ivittuut the "Middle Settlement"—on fjords near the southwestern-most tip of the island.[7][27] They shared the island with the late Dorset culture inhabitants who occupied the northern and western parts, and later with the Thule culture arriving from the north. Norse Greenlanders submitted to Norwegian rule in the 13th century, and the Kingdom of Norway entered into a personal union with Denmark in 1380, and from 1397 was a part of the Kalmar Union.[28] 5000 meat eating settler need 50000 fertile acres per year to sustain life. They were there for half a century. 5000 may or may not include Irish slaves if not and that would be plausible because they wouldn't be considered part of citizenry or settlers you could add several thousand to that number.

              The settlements, such as Brattahlíð, thrived for centuries but disappeared sometime in the 15th century, perhaps at the onset of the Little Ice Age.[29] Apart from some runic inscriptions, no contemporary records or historiography survives from the Norse settlements. Icelandic saga accounts of life in Greenland were composed in the thirteenth century and later, and do not constitute primary sources for the history of early Greenland.[15] Modern understanding therefore depends on the physical data. Interpretation of ice core and clam shell data suggests that between 800 and 1300 CE, the regions around the fjords of southern Greenland experienced a relatively mild climate several degrees Celsius higher than usual in the North Atlantic,[30] with trees and herbaceous plants growing and livestock being farmed. Barley was grown as a crop up to the 70th parallel.[31] What is verifiable is that the ice cores indicate Greenland has experienced dramatic temperature shifts many times over the past 100,000 years.[32] Similarly the Icelandic Book of Settlements records famines during the winters in which "the old and helpless were killed and thrown over cliffs".[30]

              The last written records of the Norse Greenlanders are of a marriage in 1408 in the church of Hvalsey—today the best-preserved Nordic ruins in Greenland.
              These Icelandic settlements vanished during the 14th and 15th centuries, probably as a result of famine and increasing conflicts with the Inuit.[33]
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 10 months ago
      My recently deceased father left a lake house to my family of 5 brothers in the Florida Panhandle.
      You could film a Tarzan movie there. Snow? What's snow?
      Very close to the cottage (as Dad liked to call it) is a tucked away in the woods out of place suburban-looking community that nearby passing Highway 231 traffic would have no idea it even existed.
      Last time I went slightly out of my way to drive through that place I saw a dude pushing a lawnmower and giving me a weird kind of a smile.
      The words, "Witness Protection Program," as suddenly flashed through my imagination. I don't really know.
      Perhaps a similar community could be built shaded by lots of trees maybe at the end of a mazed confusion of dirt roads with a lot of dead ends.
      If Gulchers would refrain from growing pot that's picked up by the heat sensors of law enforcement helicopters, maybe such a (not suburban-looking) community can stay off the grid.
      Clean water can be gained from wells dug beside one of many lakes that are all over the place in that area. Check that out on Google Maps. It surprised me how many lakes there are when I looked just a couple of years ago.
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